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Sex before marring

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by Godrocks, Feb 28, 2008.

  1. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

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    (kriss;47829)
    So then according to you If one turns to Satanism tomarrow they are still saved right and you cant argue then they were not saved in the first place because any one confess a belief in Christ and repents is saved . So if this person believed they were saved and then turned to drugs and to worship Satan they are saved same as you right. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.No I tell you God says different this is a political correct doctrine that takes the responsabilty away from you.An excuse for one can do whatever you like cause God says you are saved, I say you only have the promise of being saved if you accept your responsabilty in following his laws. Thats what scripture says.
    Has nothing to do with anything political. It is the truth of the Gospel. If you say God's Word, back it up please."And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."Yes, He is saying that to those He NEVER KNEW. You just used a part of scripture that I'll use to say once saved always saved. Jesus said, "NEVER knew." Now, Jesus to have never known them... it means... they were never saved, period. I don't think Jesus would make the mistake of saying "never" if He didn't mean, "never." He never knew those referenced in His example--people who were never converted, ever, at any point. "I NEVER knew you..." I don't take Jesus for a liar, so that means He never "knew" them.Once saved, always saved. It is by grace, not by works, lest any man boast.
     
  2. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

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    (medicalmatt;47830)
    "Why do you call me Lord Lord and do not do what I say?" (Luke 6:46)You can call Jesus Lord with your mouth, but it's what's in your heart that counts. If one turns to Satanism tomorrow then no...they were not saved today. I'll admit it has been awhile since I've reviewed my Biblical basis for this, so I'm going to do some re-studying on the matter [​IMG] Would love to hear what you have to say on the topic.
    That's exactly it. Jesus knows who He has known.It issue isn't "Do we think they are saved? Look how they live?"The issue is if once saved, are they always saved? If Jesus has at anytime known you, you are indeed saved, forever. Works don't get you in, and work (or lack thereof) won't get you out.
     
  3. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Always Saved is a true doctrine you are always saved Ifyou you accept Christ and repent of your sins You must accept the grace that is offered all but you must not abuse it and you must must honor your Father If you go worshiping false gods turn from your father do not repent even if you once followed him once you are no longer saved until you call upon him again.(Heb 10:26-31 NKJV) "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The LORD will judge His people." 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." One of the most conclusive set of scriptures denying and exposing a heresy the "once saved, always saved" doctrine is Hebrews 10:26-31. The writer of Hebrews is making a comparison here to offenses committed under the Mosaic law, not to the legalities, but the punishment. People who rejected Moses' law died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. The 29th verse is clearly saying that a blood-washed Christian who abuses God's grace will receive the worse punishment. Jesus taught the same thing in (Luke 12:45-47 NKJV) ""But if that servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 "the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 "And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes." Notice verse 46, "appoint him his portion with the unbelievers." This is obviously a Christian who has abused the grace of God.He also taught the same principle in Matthew concerning people who are unprepared at His coming. (Mat 24:48-51 NKJV) ""But if that evil servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' 49 "and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 "the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 "and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." In this passage the Christian who abuses grace is judged and punished as a hypocrite
     
  4. RaddSpencer

    RaddSpencer New Member

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    (kriss;47841)
    One of the most conclusive set of scriptures denying and exposing a heresy the "once saved, always saved" doctrine is Hebrews 10:26-31. The writer of Hebrews is making a comparison here to offenses committed under the Mosaic law, not to the legalities, but the punishment. People who rejected Moses' law died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. The 29th verse is clearly saying that a blood-washed Christian who abuses God's grace will receive the worse punishment.
    Meeh,It seems like you are trivializing the work of the Holy Spirit within a Christian's life by saying this. This is the verse that I go by. The Holy Ghost has more of an effect on us than you think."28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." John 10:28If you want to worry about your salvation --- you go right ahead. I on the other hand, will not.http://christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t006.htmlAnd why do you have to call it heresy? Its not like the Spanish Inquisition exists anymore. HEHEHEHEhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSe38dzJYkY&feature=related
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I dont worry about my salvation as long as I stay in Christ that not what this doctrine is about it teaches no matter what one does they are always saved. Thats only true as long as you repent and keep him in your heart. If you turn to Idol worship and never repent you are not always saved unless you come back to your father thats what scipture teaches this doesnt trivilize the holy spirit but you must take responsabilty for living a life in Christ to keep the sprit alive within you thats what this says
     
  6. RaddSpencer

    RaddSpencer New Member

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    (kriss;47846)
    I dont worry about my salvation as long as I stay in Christ that not what this doctrine is about it teaches no matter what one does they are always saved. Thats only true as long as you repent and keep him in your heart. If you turn to Idol worship and never repent you are not always saved unless you come back to your father thats what scipture teaches this doesnt trivilize the holy spirit but you must take responsabilty for living a life in Christ to keep the sprit alive within you thats what this says
    Meeh, This is the doctrine that I learned growing up in church (and the one that Christiananswers.net agrees with). So, its not like its some sort of bizarre backwoods theology that came out of nowhere. In fact I didn't even know there was an opposing position on this topic. I figured everyone believed the "once saved always saved" theology. So I guess I learned something new today. Anyway, I would like to make an observation about this topic. Whats the point of being saved if your salvation can be lost? It seems to me that losing ones salvation shows the limitations of Jesus's sacrifice and the helplessness of the Holy Ghost to steer you back on the right path. I just frankly believe that Jesus and the Holy Ghost are much stronger than that.
     
  7. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

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    (kriss;47846)
    I dont worry about my salvation as long as I stay in Christ that not what this doctrine is about it teaches no matter what one does they are always saved. Thats only true as long as you repent and keep him in your heart. If you turn to Idol worship and never repent you are not always saved unless you come back to your father thats what scipture teaches this doesnt trivilize the holy spirit but you must take responsabilty for living a life in Christ to keep the sprit alive within you thats what this says
    It is by grace, not by works.If... if... if...No if's. It is by grace. It is by His Work. No if's, and's, or but's. [​IMG]
     
  8. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (treeoflife;48122)
    (Kriss;47846)
    I dont worry about my salvation as long as I stay in Christ that not what this doctrine is about it teaches no matter what one does they are always saved. Thats only true as long as you repent and keep him in your heart. If you turn to Idol worship and never repent you are not always saved unless you come back to your father thats what scipture teaches this doesnt trivilize the holy spirit but you must take responsabilty for living a life in Christ to keep the sprit alive within you thats what this says
    It is by grace, not by works.If... if... if...No if's. It is by grace. It is by His Work. No if's, and's, or but's. [​IMG]Even I was a NEWBIE that detect that lie of Satan.John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.John 14:30 - He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.Can a devil believeth and follow His ways after rejecting Him? (if they accept Him as Saviour in their earlier life)
     
  9. DreadStorm

    DreadStorm New Member

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    I find it strange how some would sugar-coat an issue. Please, correct me if I am wrong (I did join here to learn more, after all). But I was under the impression that...1) Sin is sin, be it someone is a homosexual, or someone stole a pen of someone else's desk at work.2) God cannot abide sin in His presence, regardless.And making excuses for sin is unacceptable for believers. We're supposed to shun sin, and try with all that's within us not to commit any. And if we do, we repent - which means to turn away from it and not do it anymore. Am I wrong?
     
  10. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (DreadStorm;57002)
    I find it strange how some would sugar-coat an issue. Please, correct me if I am wrong (I did join here to learn more, after all). But I was under the impression that...1) Sin is sin, be it someone is a homosexual, or someone stole a pen of someone else's desk at work.2) God cannot abide sin in His presence, regardless.And making excuses for sin is unacceptable for believers. We're supposed to shun sin, and try with all that's within us not to commit any. And if we do, we repent - which means to turn away from it and not do it anymore. Am I wrong?
    I John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.Yes... if we commit sin, we should repent. And true repentance, means don't do it again anymore. However at the same time, if we commit sin and ask to be forgiven, and commit the sin on purpose, Are we not playing lip services? Is not our heart far away from Him? (Matthew 15:8, Mark 7:6) If we commit sin, and ask to be forgiven, and we sinned again, but tried our best to not do it again...God will understand, but still we need to repent afterwards...Once again Once Saved Always Saved is mostly based on false doctrines...The only time OSAS is true, if we believe Him in our hearts and keep repenting of our sins...when we do, God shall not remember of our iniquity.
     
  11. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

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    I John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    There are no if's that maintain our salvation. All of the promises of God are in Him, ye and amen.The only *if* of salvation is that of the *if* which pre-dates salvation... that is the if of *if* we will receive Him or not. If we have done that, it's finished. There are not *ifs* after that for maintaining our salvation. I confessed my sins to Him the day I believed, if anyone has done that, which everyone who has been saved has... they are saved. No if's, and's, or buts. [​IMG]
     
  12. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (treeoflife;57042)
    (thesuperjag;57003)
    I John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    There are no if's that maintain our salvation. All of the promises of God are in Him, ye and amen.The only *if* of salvation is that of the *if* which pre-dates salvation... that is the if of *if* we will receive Him or not. If we have done that, it's finished. There are not *ifs* after that for maintaining our salvation. I confessed my sins to Him the day I believed, if anyone has done that, which everyone who has been saved has... they are saved. No if's, and's, or buts. [​IMG]John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.John 14:24 - He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.Do you wish to go for another round? Cause you will lose not to me, but the Word of God.
     
  13. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

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    (thesuperjag;57043)
    There are no if's that maintain our salvation. All of the promises of God are in Him, ye and amen.The only *if* of salvation is that of the *if* which pre-dates salvation... that is the if of *if* we will receive Him or not. If we have done that, it's finished. There are not *ifs* after that for maintaining our salvation. I confessed my sins to Him the day I believed, if anyone has done that, which everyone who has been saved has... they are saved. No if's, and's, or buts. [​IMG]John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.John 14:24 - He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.Do you wish to go for another round? Cause you will lose not to me, but the Word of God.
    Perhaps we have a misunderstanding. Please read the scripture you quoted. I have heard you say before that we are not saved by works, and now it seems that you are disagreeing.What you said had nothing to do with salvation... it had to do with loving God.If ye love me, keep my commandments.He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.I don't disagree at all. If we love Him, we will keep His commandments... amen. Of course we will keep His commandments if we love (and are actively loving) Him, that is no lie. What does that have to do with maintaining our salvation? Do we attain salvation by keeping commandments? Do we keep our salvation by keeping commandments? Do we even attain salvation by loving Him? No, we do not. We did not love Him, but HE FIRST LOVED US. 1 John 4:19We love him, because he first loved us. Do we now perfect in the flesh what began in the spirit? We are saved by grace, through faith--not of works, lest any man boast. [​IMG]It is all about Him, and His faithfulness... His grace... His gift. [​IMG]
     
  14. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (treeoflife;57044)
    (thesuperjag;57043)
    John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.John 14:24 - He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.Do you wish to go for another round? Cause you will lose not to me, but the Word of God.
    Perhaps we have a misunderstanding. Please read the scripture you quoted. I have heard you say before that we are not saved by works, and now it seems that you are disagreeing.What you said had nothing to do with salvation... it had to do with loving God.If ye love me, keep my commandments.He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.I don't disagree at all. If we love Him, we will keep His commandments... amen. Of course we will keep His commandments if we love (and are actively loving) Him, that is no lie. What does that have to do with maintaining our salvation? Do we attain salvation by keeping commandments? Do we keep our salvation by keeping commandments? Do we even attain salvation by loving Him? No, we do not. We did not love Him, but HE FIRST LOVED US. 1 John 4:19We love him, because he first loved us. Do we now perfect in the flesh what began in the spirit? We are saved by grace, through faith--not of works, lest any man boast. [​IMG]It is all about Him, and His faithfulness... His grace... His gift. [​IMG]Yes, it is about Him. His gift of eternal life. (John 3:16, Romans 6:23)Is not studying scriptures to know Truth a work? (II Timothy 2:15) Is it possible to please Him without Faith? (Hebrews 11:6) So without faith, works is dead. (James 2:14, James 2:17, James 2:20, James 2:26)So therefore how can we love God, if we know not Truth, but wickedness?We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves or our works. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 11:6) But we work in Him. (Ephesians 2:10)
     
  15. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

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    Well, we digress from the thread since we aren't answering the question about sex before marriage at this point... but I will say this. In James, he writes that faith without works is dead--amen. Faith is the subject of what James says, is dead. "FAITH without works is DEAD." This doesn't speak about *the person's salvation* being dead... or even the person themself being dead... no, it speaks of a person's faith being dead. Such a person should pray for faith, or start doing works like James suggests to re-establish their faith, because it's dead without works!James 2:18 "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."This doesn't mean we are saved or unsaved because of works... it means our faith is dead, or has died without them (works). Thankfully, our salvation is not about our faithfulness to Him, is it is about His faithfulness to us. We certainly maintain our *faith*... and our *love* for God... but we don't maintain our *salvation*.
     
  16. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (treeoflife;57050)
    Well, we digress from the thread since we aren't answering the question about sex before marriage at this point... but I will say this. In James, he writes that faith without works is dead--amen. Faith is the subject of what James says, is dead. "FAITH without works is DEAD." This doesn't speak about *the person's salvation* being dead... or even the person themself being dead... no, it speaks of a person's faith being dead. Such a person should pray for faith, or start doing works like James suggests to re-establish their faith, because it's dead without works!James 2:18 "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."This doesn't mean we are saved or unsaved because of works... it means our faith is dead, or has died without them (works). Thankfully, our salvation is not about our faithfulness to Him, is it is about His faithfulness to us. We certainly maintain our *faith*... and our *love* for God... but we don't maintain our *salvation*.
    No one said it is. As God does not give everybody the same amount of Wisdom. Works follows us. But however confusions cause people to lead astray... can cause them to lose salvation...if they decided to reject Christ for men... OSAS... well you know what I'm going to say...I repeat it is not about us...not one bit. It is about Him and Him only. Christ vs Satan.
     
  17. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

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    (thesuperjag;57052)
    No one said it is. As God does not give everybody the same amount of Wisdom. Works follows us. But however confusions cause people to lead astray... can cause them to lose salvation...if they decided to reject Christ for men... OSAS... well you know what I'm going to say...I repeat it is not about us...not one bit. It is about Him and Him only. Christ vs Satan.
    Well, we'll just have to disagree on what the Gospel is a bit then. As far as I am concerned, OSAS is the Good News that we have in Christ... salvation apart from any works for our own. I wish we didn't disagree, but we do. I have been down that road... when I wrestled over my salvation with tears, and works, and prayer, and fasting. Once saved always saved is the Good News of Jesus Christ. We were once saved apart from works... and that doesn't change. We do not perfect in the flesh what God began in the Spirit, completely apart from works. I'm sorry that we can't agree on OSAS.
     
  18. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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    (thesuperjag;57052)
    No one said it is. As God does not give everybody the same amount of Wisdom. Works follows us. But however confusions cause people to lead astray... can cause them to lose salvation...if they decided to reject Christ for men... OSAS... well you know what I'm going to say...I repeat it is not about us...not one bit. It is about Him and Him only. Christ vs Satan.
    Agree, tree, we will agree to disagree also."But however confusions cause people to lead astray... can cause them to lose salvation...if they decided to reject Christ for men" = apostasy
     
  19. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (thesuperjag;57052)
    No one said it is. As God does not give everybody the same amount of Wisdom. Works follows us. But however confusions cause people to lead astray... can cause them to lose salvation...if they decided to reject Christ for men... OSAS... well you know what I'm going to say...I repeat it is not about us...not one bit. It is about Him and Him only. Christ vs Satan.
    Agree, tree, we will agree to disagree also."But however confusions cause people to lead astray... can cause them to lose salvation...if they decided to reject Christ for men" = apostasy[​IMG][​IMG]:study:
     
  20. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

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    (tomwebster;57058)
    Agree, tree, we will agree to disagree also."But however confusions cause people to lead astray... can cause them to lose salvation...if they decided to reject Christ for men" = apostasy
    Where is that found? What is that quote?
     
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