Shall we discuss this?

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Truther

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17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God....


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:...


12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


Are you uncomfortable with such strange 1st century terms from the Apostles and Jesus?

Should we greet one another like Paul did in Eph 1:3(above)?
 

Sabertooth

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I can't tell what point you are trying to make...
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Hidden In Him

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17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God....

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:...

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Are you uncomfortable with such strange 1st century terms from the Apostles and Jesus?

Should we greet one another like Paul did in Eph 1:3(above)?


Hey, Truther.

If you are arguing for non-Trinitarian doctrine, I don't think Jesus referring to the Heavenly Father as His God does it. But maybe I'm misunderstanding your intention.

God bless,
- H
 

Truther

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Hey, Truther.

If you are arguing for non-Trinitarian doctrine, I don't think Jesus referring to the Heavenly Father as His God does it. But maybe I'm misunderstanding your intention.

God bless,
- H
I am just posting Bible verses.

What do you think this is saying?

Just respond to the OP verses...thanks.

Why don't we greet each other like Paul did in verse 3?

Does it make us cringe?
 
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Truther

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I can't tell what point you are trying to make...
full
I guess it is this easy....folks don't agree with many verses in their Bible.

Jesus and the apostles taught Jesus has a God right now as we speak.

We disagree wth the Apostles and Jesus, but I know exactly why.

If you want to know what causes this phenomenon, just ask....
 

icxn

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Since the Word of God became man (John 1:14), as man He can speak of His father as being His God. Since He is also God, Thomas - and those who believe him - can call Him Lord and God:

John 20:26-29:
And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.​
 

Truther

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Since the Word of God became man (John 1:14), as man He can speak of His father as being His God. Since He is also God, Thomas - and those who believe him - can call Him Lord and God:

John 20:26-29:
And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.​
I agree with Jesus is God, but the scriptures per the OP says Jesus has a God as we speak.

So, can you make this work?

I figured it out already, but I will hold back so you can give me your thoughts on whether to incorporate or dismiss the verses from the OP.
 

icxn

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I agree with Jesus is God, but the scriptures per the OP says Jesus has a God as we speak.

So, can you make this work?

I figured it out already, but I will hold back so you can give me your thoughts on whether to incorporate or dismiss the verses from the OP.
Jesus is both God and man. The verses from the OP prove His human nature, why would anyone dismiss them?
 

Truther

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Jesus is both God and man. The verses from the OP prove His human nature, why would anyone dismiss them?
God's human nature spoke of His God?

Please elaborate.

So, in Ephesians 1:3 Paul was speaking about the God of our Lord Jesus as the God of His own human nature?

Please elaborate. This is interesting.

Thanks.
 

icxn

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God's human nature spoke of His God?
I'm not comfortable with that phrasing. I would rather say, the Word of God, Christ who is also God (the Son), spoke of God the Father as being His God in relation to His (Christ's) human nature.

So, in Ephesians 1:3 Paul was speaking about the God of our Lord Jesus as the God of His own human nature?
I would say so. The alternative would imply that God has a God, which makes no sense. Fatherhood (having a father) on the other hand can be applied to both natures. Christ as God (LXX Proverbs 8:22-30*, LXX Psalm 109:1-4**) and as man (Psalms 2:7, Hebrews 1:5, Hebrews 5:5) has God the Father as His father.

*LXX Proverbs 8:22-30:
22 The Lord made me the beginning of his ways for his works. 23 He established me before time [was] in the beginning, before he made the earth: 24 even before he made the depths; before the fountains of water came forth: 25 before the mountains were settled, and before all hills, he begets me. 26 The Lord made countries and uninhabited [tracks], and the highest inhabited parts of the world. 27 When he prepared the heaven, I was present with him; and when he prepared his throne upon the winds: 28 and when he strengthened the clouds above; and when he secured the fountains of the earth: 29 [see Appendix] and when he strengthened the foundations of the earth: 30 I was by him, suiting [myself to him], I was that wherein he took delight; and daily I rejoiced in his presence continually.​

**LXX Psalm 109:1-4:
1 The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2 The Lord shall send out a rod of power for thee out of Sion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. 3 With thee is dominion in the day of thy power, in the splendours of thy saints: from the womb before the morning star have I begotten thee. 4 The Lord sware, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever, after the order of Melchisedec.​
 
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Hidden In Him

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I am just posting Bible verses.

What do you think this is saying?

Just respond to the OP verses...thanks.

Why don't we greet each other like Paul did in verse 3?

Does it make us cringe?


Well it's interesting. Not often I get a Bible quiz, LoL.

My guess would be He (and they) are using it as an identifier of allegiance. In Revelation 3:9-12, Jesus makes reference to the synagogue of Satan as a place where those who say they are Jews but are not true Jews worship. He then gives the Philadelphians the promise that He will make them pillars in the temple of His God if they overcome all opposition. Likewise the greeting in Ephesians, since it was a city with many pagan gods.

Maybe we don't use the greeting today because we live in godless and atheistic/agnostic societies, where no other true gods or divine beings are worshipped other than things like materialism or humanism.

All I got.

If I win, what kind of prize do I get? I'll take a gift certificate from Popeyes Chicken if it's available! : )
 
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Enoch111

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I can't tell what point you are trying to make...
full
His point is that those quotations mean that Jesus is NOT God. Another heretical thread.

But what Christ said can be easily explained in view of the rest of Scripture. Even though the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all God, there is a hierarchy of authority within the Godhead, as we see here: But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor 11:3)

"Head" means "authority over", so the Father (generally called "God" in the NT) has authority over the Son. But at the same time, the Father calls the Son God (Heb 1:8,9):

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

This is the Mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ. But heretics and cultists cannot leave well enough alone, and constantly attack the Trinity and the Deity of Christ.
 
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amadeus

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I am just posting Bible verses.

What do you think this is saying?

Just respond to the OP verses...thanks.

Why don't we greet each other like Paul did in verse 3?

Does it make us cringe?
Something like that holy kiss greeting, huh?
 
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marks

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I guess it is this easy....folks don't agree with many verses in their Bible.

Jesus and the apostles taught Jesus has a God right now as we speak.

We disagree wth the Apostles and Jesus, but I know exactly why.

If you want to know what causes this phenomenon, just ask....
Who disagrees with whom? And about what? I'm not getting this.

Much love!
 
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mjrhealth

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In several years, there have never been takers.

Something is super fishy....
Its because satan has blinded the eyes of men and through deception is removing Jesus Christ from teh Gospel, No Jesus no salvation, they are changing teh gospel.
 

Truther

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Its because satan has blinded the eyes of men and through deception is removing Jesus Christ from teh Gospel, No Jesus no salvation, they are changing teh gospel.
You are right.

After the Apostles died, it started and became the mess we see.

Still getting messier too....
 
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Truther

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Who disagrees with whom? And about what? I'm not getting this.

Much love!
Folks disagree with the 3 verses of the OP.

They cannot imagine greeting folks like Paul did in Eph 1:3.

Have you ever heard anyone greet a congregation etc., with "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus...".

No, they run from such first century language.