SHOULD THE CHURCH TODAY BE CALLED NEW TESTAMENT

[Doug]

The church, the body of Christ, should not technically call itself a new testament church.

First of all the new testament should be viewed as being distinct from the old and new covenants.

The new covenant was made only with the house of Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 31:31). The new covenant promised Israel and Judah that God will, by His Spirit, write His law in their hearts; by His Spirit, enable them to keep His law, and be a light to the Gentiles (Jeremiah 31:31-34 Ezekiel 36:24-28 Matthew 5:14 Isaiah 60:3). The new covenant will be fulfilled in the future.

The new testament is given to Israel as well. Jesus died and shed his blood to redeem Israel; for the redemption of their transgressions that were under the first testament (Hebrews 9:15-18 Matthew 26:28 Mark 14:24). The new testament was put into force upon his death (Hebrews 9:17), while the new covenant has yet to be fulfilled.

Paul is a minister of the spirit (2 Corinthians 3:6); a minister of the new testament, not the new covenant. Paul expounds the spiritual blessings, the spititual benefits, of the new testament, given to the body of Christ; the blessings and eternal salvation, which are bestowed, by the cross of Christ. The new testament blood of Christ, has also been applied to His body, the church (Romans 3:25 Romans 4:25 Romans 8:16 1 Corinthians 2:12 1 Corinthians 12:13 Philippians 3:3).

That Jesus would die for the sins of Israel was in prophecy (Mark 8:31 Mark 9:31 Isaiah 53 Psalm 16:10); that his death and shed blood would also be applied to Gentiles and the body of Christ was kept secret until revealed to Paul (1 Corinthians 15:3-4 Ephesians 3:2-6).

The fact that the shed blood of Jesus was for the new testament (Luke 22:20); for the redemption of Israel's transgressions that were under the first testament (Hebrews 9:15), makes calling the church today new testament dubious. If the church today considers itself new testament it can lead to the error that it was redeemed by the blood of Christ to "receive the promise of eternal inheritance" promised Israel (Hebrews 9:15). The only church that could be called new testament would be the church comprised of those who received Jesus as Messiah, the Son of God (John 1:12 John 20:31) and believed the gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 4:23) which promised entrance into the Davidic kingdom on earth (2 Peter 1:11).

 

[Mungo]

Covenant and Testament are the same thing.
You are being misled by using an inconsistent translation by the KJV.
You say Jer 31:31 prophesied a new covenant. Yes he did.
Heb 8:8-10 recounts that prophesy:
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people. The word translated covenant in each case is diatheke (G 1242).

It's the same word that the KJV translates as testament in Lk 22:20, Mt 26:28, Mk 14:24 and 1Cor 11:25).
Good translations consistently translate them as covenant.

The KJV shows it's inconsistency in Heb 9.
verse 1 says "Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary."
But then vs 18 says "Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood."

Again vs 20 has Moses saying "This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you".
But in Ex 24:8 Moses says "Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you"

The new covenant is not for the Jews some time in the future. It is here and now for all people.

 

[justbyfaith]

I would simply give mention to a single verse:

Eph 3:6, That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

[ScottA]

The church, the body of Christ, should not technically call itself a new testament church.

First of all the new testament should be viewed as being distinct from the old and new covenants.

The new covenant was made only with the house of Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 31:31). The new covenant promised Israel and Judah that God will, by His Spirit, write His law in their hearts; by His Spirit, enable them to keep His law, and be a light to the Gentiles (Jeremiah 31:31-34 Ezekiel 36:24-28 Matthew 5:14 Isaiah 60:3). The new covenant will be fulfilled in the future.

The new testament is given to Israel as well. Jesus died and shed his blood to redeem Israel; for the redemption of their transgressions that were under the first testament (Hebrews 9:15-18 Matthew 26:28 Mark 14:24). The new testament was put into force upon his death (Hebrews 9:17), while the new covenant has yet to be fulfilled.

Paul is a minister of the spirit (2 Corinthians 3:6); a minister of the new testament, not the new covenant. Paul expounds the spiritual blessings, the spititual benefits, of the new testament, given to the body of Christ; the blessings and eternal salvation, which are bestowed, by the cross of Christ. The new testament blood of Christ, has also been applied to His body, the church (Romans 3:25 Romans 4:25 Romans 8:16 1 Corinthians 2:12 1 Corinthians 12:13 Philippians 3:3).

That Jesus would die for the sins of Israel was in prophecy (Mark 8:31 Mark 9:31 Isaiah 53 Psalm 16:10); that his death and shed blood would also be applied to Gentiles and the body of Christ was kept secret until revealed to Paul (1 Corinthians 15:3-4 Ephesians 3:2-6).

The fact that the shed blood of Jesus was for the new testament (Luke 22:20); for the redemption of Israel's transgressions that were under the first testament (Hebrews 9:15), makes calling the church today new testament dubious. If the church today considers itself new testament it can lead to the error that it was redeemed by the blood of Christ to "receive the promise of eternal inheritance" promised Israel (Hebrews 9:15). The only church that could be called new testament would be the church comprised of those who received Jesus as Messiah, the Son of God (John 1:12 John 20:31) and believed the gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 4:23) which promised entrance into the Davidic kingdom on earth (2 Peter 1:11).

I see you are taking another shot at your theory of proper covenants and testaments.

Anyway...No...the new covenant and testament simply refer to those things which are "first to the Jew then to the Greek (gentile)." Which is the spiritual fulfillment of those things first foreshadowed in the flesh and in the world. That's all.

Which...Yes...that means the church is new covenant, because the church is made of "spiritual stones", not flesh.

 

[Enoch111]

The church, the body of Christ, should not technically call itself a new testament church.

Why do you continue to promote your false doctrines? You have been indoctrinated into some kind of false doctrine and your best option is to start from scratch and study the New Testament.

The Church is SOLIDLY under the New Covenant, which went into effect on the day that Christ died and proclaimed victoriously: IT IS FINISHED.


2 CORINTHIANS 3

NEW COVENANT NOW IN EFFECT
1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

APOSTLES ARE MINISTERS OF THE NEW COVENANT
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

OLD COVENANT = MINISTRATION OF DEATH
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

NEW COVENANT = MINISTRATION OF THE LIVING SPIRIT
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

OLD COVENANT = MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

NEW COVENANT: MORE GLORIOUS THAN OLD COVENANT
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

OLD COVENANT: HAS BEEN MADE OBSOLETE
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

OLD COVENANT: ABOLISHED
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

JEWS READING THE OLD COVENANT ARE SPIRITUALLY BLIND
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the Old Testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

THOSE WHO TURN TO CHRIST LIBERATED FROM BLINDNESS
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

 

[Philip James]

Paul is a minister of the spirit (2 Corinthians 3:6); a minister of the new testament, not the new covenant

Hello Doug,

This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you.

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

 

[marks]

The church, the body of Christ, should not technically call itself a new testament church.

First of all the new testament should be viewed as being distinct from the old and new covenants.

The new covenant was made only with the house of Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 31:31). The new covenant promised Israel and Judah that God will, by His Spirit, write His law in their hearts; by His Spirit, enable them to keep His law, and be a light to the Gentiles (Jeremiah 31:31-34 Ezekiel 36:24-28 Matthew 5:14 Isaiah 60:3). The new covenant will be fulfilled in the future.

The new testament is given to Israel as well. Jesus died and shed his blood to redeem Israel; for the redemption of their transgressions that were under the first testament (Hebrews 9:15-18 Matthew 26:28 Mark 14:24). The new testament was put into force upon his death (Hebrews 9:17), while the new covenant has yet to be fulfilled.

Paul is a minister of the spirit (2 Corinthians 3:6); a minister of the new testament, not the new covenant. Paul expounds the spiritual blessings, the spititual benefits, of the new testament, given to the body of Christ; the blessings and eternal salvation, which are bestowed, by the cross of Christ. The new testament blood of Christ, has also been applied to His body, the church (Romans 3:25 Romans 4:25 Romans 8:16 1 Corinthians 2:12 1 Corinthians 12:13 Philippians 3:3).

That Jesus would die for the sins of Israel was in prophecy (Mark 8:31 Mark 9:31 Isaiah 53 Psalm 16:10); that his death and shed blood would also be applied to Gentiles and the body of Christ was kept secret until revealed to Paul (1 Corinthians 15:3-4 Ephesians 3:2-6).

The fact that the shed blood of Jesus was for the new testament (Luke 22:20); for the redemption of Israel's transgressions that were under the first testament (Hebrews 9:15), makes calling the church today new testament dubious. If the church today considers itself new testament it can lead to the error that it was redeemed by the blood of Christ to "receive the promise of eternal inheritance" promised Israel (Hebrews 9:15). The only church that could be called new testament would be the church comprised of those who received Jesus as Messiah, the Son of God (John 1:12 John 20:31) and believed the gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 4:23) which promised entrance into the Davidic kingdom on earth (2 Peter 1:11).

Hi Doug,

That's an interesting point, and I've been thinking along similar lines lately. From a little different direction, but the same line of thought, that the only true "Messianic Jews" were those Jewish Christians that had come to Christ before the Gospel was sent no more to the Jews, but to the Gentiles. After that time, in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek.

The New Testament in Jesus' blood is His death to our salvation, but, like you say, not entrance into the New Covenant as specified in the Prophets. That involves much that is specifically not what our salvation is about.

Very interesting! I'm still considering this, and I'm looking forward to reading people's relies.

Much love!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

The church, the body of Christ, should not technically call itself a new testament church.

First of all the new testament should be viewed as being distinct from the old and new covenants.

The new covenant was made only with the house of Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 31:31). The new covenant promised Israel and Judah that God will, by His Spirit, write His law in their hearts; by His Spirit, enable them to keep His law, and be a light to the Gentiles (Jeremiah 31:31-34 Ezekiel 36:24-28 Matthew 5:14 Isaiah 60:3). The new covenant will be fulfilled in the future.

The new testament is given to Israel as well. Jesus died and shed his blood to redeem Israel; for the redemption of their transgressions that were under the first testament (Hebrews 9:15-18 Matthew 26:28 Mark 14:24). The new testament was put into force upon his death (Hebrews 9:17), while the new covenant has yet to be fulfilled.

Paul is a minister of the spirit (2 Corinthians 3:6); a minister of the new testament, not the new covenant. Paul expounds the spiritual blessings, the spititual benefits, of the new testament, given to the body of Christ; the blessings and eternal salvation, which are bestowed, by the cross of Christ. The new testament blood of Christ, has also been applied to His body, the church (Romans 3:25 Romans 4:25 Romans 8:16 1 Corinthians 2:12 1 Corinthians 12:13 Philippians 3:3).

That Jesus would die for the sins of Israel was in prophecy (Mark 8:31 Mark 9:31 Isaiah 53 Psalm 16:10); that his death and shed blood would also be applied to Gentiles and the body of Christ was kept secret until revealed to Paul (1 Corinthians 15:3-4 Ephesians 3:2-6).

The fact that the shed blood of Jesus was for the new testament (Luke 22:20); for the redemption of Israel's transgressions that were under the first testament (Hebrews 9:15), makes calling the church today new testament dubious. If the church today considers itself new testament it can lead to the error that it was redeemed by the blood of Christ to "receive the promise of eternal inheritance" promised Israel (Hebrews 9:15). The only church that could be called new testament would be the church comprised of those who received Jesus as Messiah, the Son of God (John 1:12 John 20:31) and believed the gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 4:23) which promised entrance into the Davidic kingdom on earth (2 Peter 1:11).

I find that your explanation really complicates things. Acts 28 makes it clear that Paul explained the kingdom of God to the Jews and then preached the kingdom of God to the Gentiles when the Jews rejected Jesus Christ as their Savior.

Acts 28:23-31--And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves. And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

 

[marks]

OK . . . reading the replies, not the popular view!



Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

I mean, right off the bat, this says that it will be a covenant with the "house of Israel, and with the house of Judah". I know a lot of people have the view that the church is the Israel in the Bible. Does that extend to a "spiritual Judah"? I've never heard something like that. Does the Bible teach that Christians are Judah?

It seems to me that when I read about Israel and Judah in the Bible, it's about the northern and southern kingdoms, that is, the people of the promised land.

Something else that jumps out at me, as we all disagree over so much, "they shall all know me", I have to ask, how well? Like we do now? Yikes!

Thinking more about this Israel with whom God makes His covenant, it seems further delineated by "in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of Egypt". "Which my covenant they brake", all about the people who were slaves in Egypt, and brought out to the promised land.

Thoughts?

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

OK . . . reading the replies, not the popular view!



Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

I mean, right off the bat, this says that it will be a covenant with the "house of Israel, and with the house of Judah". I know a lot of people have the view that the church is the Israel in the Bible. Does that extend to a "spiritual Judah"? I've never heard something like that. Does the Bible teach that Christians are Judah?

It seems to me that when I read about Israel and Judah in the Bible, it's about the northern and southern kingdoms, that is, the people of the promised land.

Something else that jumps out at me, as we all disagree over so much, "they shall all know me", I have to ask, how well? Like we do now? Yikes!

Thinking more about this Israel with whom God makes His covenant, it seems further delineated by "in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of Egypt". "Which my covenant they brake", all about the people who were slaves in Egypt, and brought out to the promised land.

Thoughts?

Much love!

Marks,

"They shall all know me" speaks of no worldly church, but of the heavenly church. It is the main defining point that clarifies all.

Also, in biblical terms "northern" spiritually refers to heavenly matters, while "southern" refers to worldly matters.

 

[Philip James]

"they shall all know me", I have to ask, how well?

Hello marks,

Intimately, as the bride knows the Groom and is known by Him!

All are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[justbyfaith]

The new covenant is obviously for the church of Jesus Christ.

To say otherwise is to enter into the realm of the absurd.

 

[Mungo]

OK . . . reading the replies, not the popular view!



Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

I mean, right off the bat, this says that it will be a covenant with the "house of Israel, and with the house of Judah". I know a lot of people have the view that the church is the Israel in the Bible. Does that extend to a "spiritual Judah"? I've never heard something like that. Does the Bible teach that Christians are Judah?

It seems to me that when I read about Israel and Judah in the Bible, it's about the northern and southern kingdoms, that is, the people of the promised land.

Something else that jumps out at me, as we all disagree over so much, "they shall all know me", I have to ask, how well? Like we do now? Yikes!

Thinking more about this Israel with whom God makes His covenant, it seems further delineated by "in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of Egypt". "Which my covenant they brake", all about the people who were slaves in Egypt, and brought out to the promised land.

Thoughts?

Much love!

Jer 31
31 Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
32a not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt,
32b my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the Lord.
I've broken vs 31 into two because I want to make a point about the two parts separately.

"I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah"
This could be taken to mean with the Jews alone but there is another way of looking at it.

What, or who, is the house of Israel and the house of Judah?
I think the answer is the king.
In 2Sam 12:8 the Lord (via Nathan) says to David "I..... gave you the house of Israel and of Judah..."
The king represents in himself the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Now who became the King?
Who was promised the throne of David?
Answer: Jesus: "He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High;
and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever;
and of his kingdom there will be no end.” (Lk 1:32-33).
Jesus himself is the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah.

"not like the covenant which I made with their fathers"
How will this covenant be different?
In Isaiah, God speaks about the coming Messiah in several "Servant" passages
Is 42:6-7 I have given you as a covenant to the people, a light to the nations, to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness. This is very similar to what Jesus says about himself in Lk 4:18
and

Is 49:8 I have kept you and given you as a covenant to the people,
The Servant, the Messiah will be given as a covenant. This new covenant will be a living person.
Jesus is a living embodiment of the Covenant
And note he is to be a "light to the nations". He is not just for the Jews.

"my covenant which they broke"
The Mosaic/Sinai Covenant could be, and was, broken. But if Jesus is the embodiment of the Covenant it can never be broken. That is why it is an everlasting covenant .
God says to Ezekial (and note this is long after David is dead)
My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow my ordinances and be careful to observe my statutes. They shall dwell in the land where your fathers dwelt that I gave to my servant Jacob; they and their children and their children’s children shall dwell there for ever; and David my servant shall be their prince for ever. I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them (Ez 37:24-26).

Anyone can come into this Covenant. Since the Covenant is Christ, if we are "in Christ", a phrase Paul used often, we are in the Covenant.

Baptism is how we become "in Christ.".
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (Gal 3:27).
In baptism we clothe ourselves with Christ.
This is being saved and also being part of the body of Christ
As a body is one though it has many parts, and all the parts of the body, though many, are one body, so also Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptised into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slaves or free persons, and we were all given to drink of one Spirit. (1Cor 12:12-13).
Baptism brings us into the body of Christ (the Church).

Through baptism we are brought into the new covenant
“In him also you were circumcised with a spiritual circumcision, by putting off the body of the flesh in the circumcision of Christ; when you were buried with him in baptism, you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.” (Col 2:11-12)
This clearly links a “spiritual circumcision” with baptism, a link from baptism to the covenant, not through physical circumcision (as in the Old Covenant) but a spiritual one.

 

[Doug]

Why do you continue to promote your false doctrines? You have been indoctrinated into some kind of false doctrine and your best option is to start from scratch and study the New Testament.

The Church is SOLIDLY under the New Covenant, which went into effect on the day that Christ died and proclaimed victoriously: IT IS FINISHED.


2 CORINTHIANS 3

NEW COVENANT NOW IN EFFECT
1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

APOSTLES ARE MINISTERS OF THE NEW COVENANT
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

OLD COVENANT = MINISTRATION OF DEATH
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

NEW COVENANT = MINISTRATION OF THE LIVING SPIRIT
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

OLD COVENANT = MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

NEW COVENANT: MORE GLORIOUS THAN OLD COVENANT
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

OLD COVENANT: HAS BEEN MADE OBSOLETE
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

OLD COVENANT: ABOLISHED
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

JEWS READING THE OLD COVENANT ARE SPIRITUALLY BLIND
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the Old Testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

THOSE WHO TURN TO CHRIST LIBERATED FROM BLINDNESS
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

None of these verses say the body of Christ is under the new testament.
Paul is only saying he was an able minister in that he ministered only the spiritual blessing of the new testament. The shed blood of Christ, his death and resurrection for the redemption of Israel for the new testament has been applied to form the body of Christ as revealed by Paul (2 Corinthians 3:6).

 

[justbyfaith]

Gentiles are not excluded from the body of Christ and the New Covenant, Ephesians 3:6.

 

[Doug]

Hi Doug,

That's an interesting point, and I've been thinking along similar lines lately. From a little different direction, but the same line of thought, that the only true "Messianic Jews" were those Jewish Christians that had come to Christ before the Gospel was sent no more to the Jews, but to the Gentiles. After that time, in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek.

The New Testament in Jesus' blood is His death to our salvation, but, like you say, not entrance into the New Covenant as specified in the Prophets. That involves much that is specifically not what our salvation is about.

Very interesting! I'm still considering this, and I'm looking forward to reading people's relies.

Much love!

Yes, only the spiritual blessings of the new testament was applied to form the body of Christ as Christ revealed to Paul.
The Jews (and Gentiles) before Paul believed the gospel of the kingdom which preached that Jesus is Messiah, the Son of God, who would establish his kingdom on earth. It was for Israel that Jesus shed his blood, died and rose again to put into force the new testament and forgive their transgressions.....they were the new testament church.

 

[Doug]

I find that your explanation really complicates things. Acts 28 makes it clear that Paul explained the kingdom of God to the Jews and then preached the kingdom of God to the Gentiles when the Jews rejected Jesus Christ as their Savior.

Acts 28:23-31--And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves. And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

The kingdom of God consists of heaven and earth. Paul preached the heavenly aspect of the kingdom of God 2 Timothy 4:18

 

[Prayer Warrior]

The kingdom of God consists of heaven and earth. Paul preached the heavenly aspect of the kingdom of God 2 Timothy 4:18

Actually, Jesus said the kingdom of God is within us at this point. When He returns, He will set up His earthly (political) kingdom.

Luke 17:21--Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

[marks]

The king represents in himself the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Hi Mungo,

I guess I don't really make this connection, just the same, thank you for your post. I've read it several times, I think a couple more are in order.

Much love!

 

[Doug]

Actually, Jesus said the kingdom of God is within us at this point. When He returns, He will set up His earthly (political) kingdom.

Luke 17:21--Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

I don't think Jesus meant it that way, but rather the kingdom inherent in him was in their midst.