Should the words Gentile(s) or Heathen exist in scripture?

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APAK

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I recently opened a thread on how a ‘new’ secondary meaning is being used by the modern ethnic Khazarian Jew, since the 17th century to convey they are the Jews of Christ’s time whether promoted by themselves and/or other Christians. It makes no difference. There is a term that is inextricably linked to these modern-day Jews. It is the word, Gentile(s) and even Heathen. It should never be there in scripture. So why is it still there?

The word Gentile(s) would later serve to legitimize and promote these same modern Jews. The introduction and meaning of the word Gentile(s) would also effectively demote Christianity to an inferior ‘spiritual’ class of person. That mindset has not changed today! It has caused much confusion.

Here’s a concise version of the evolution of the word gentile(s).

1. Originally the Hebrew term goi or goyim (plural) meant people(s), tribes, nations from ANY place on the earth, including themselves, the Hebrews and Israelites. This was the gold standard for the meaning.

2. The Greek picked it up and called the word ethne /ethnos for the same meaning as goy or goyim.

All would have been fine until the Latin speaking Catholics got involved, and not necessarily their fault at all.

3. The Catholic folks (Jerome and company- late 4th century) picked up the Greek word ethne/ethnos and in Latin Vulgate the word became the ‘Gentillis,’ an adjective and not a noun, for a person of a tribe or clan. They went even further however. It later meant a tribe ‘not of Rome,’ because the Catholics thought they were now the Israel in scripture. They invented a completely new meaning that Rome meant Israel. So that gentillis now meant ‘not Israel.’

4. Then the English translators BLINDLY took the Catholic Latin word gentillis and it became gentile(s). The meaning however stayed as ‘not of Israel.’ The adjective original form was changed to noun form by 1400 AD.

5. Since the 17th century when the English new word ‘Jew(s)’ was placed into Bibles for the first time, the word gentile(s) already in scripture, took on a new meaning. It now meant ‘not of the Jew,’ or ‘non-Jew.’ Now I will demonstrate how this name Gentile(s) is both a ridiculous word with a nonsensical meaning in scripture. The same goes for the word ‘Heathen.’

I will first use the English KJV Bible as by far the worst-case contributor of chaos with examples. And I will show how the Modern KJV fixed these at least example errors.

The English KJV Bible has the Hebrew words of goi or goyim and translates it as, in the OT: ‘gentiles’ 30x, ‘heathen’ 143x, ‘nation’ 114x, ‘nations’ 299x. The problem is that 30 times the word gentile is used and 143 times the word heathen is used in the OT. This means 42 percentage of the words for nations or peoples are incorrectly translated in the KJV in the OT. This is staggering.

Two ridiculous examples:

(Gen 10:5) By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. (KJV)

So, there were Islands of the (NON-JEWS)?

The Modern KJV fixed the error.

(Gen 10:5) By these were the coasts of the nations divided in their lands, every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. (MKJV)

(Isa 42:1) Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. (KJV)

So, God is going to bring judgment to the (NON-JEWS). I thought it meant to the NATIONS or PEOPLES.

The MKJV fixed the error:

(Isa 42:1) Behold My Servant, whom I uphold; My Elect, in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit on Him; He shall bring out judgment to the nations. (MKJV)

Now let’s review the KJV NT words of Gentile and Heathen used the translation of the Greek ethne/ethnos

‘Gentiles’ 99x, heathen 7x, ‘nation’ 31x, ‘nations’ 37x. This means that 155 percentage of the words for nations or peoples are incorrectly translated in the KJV in the NT to gentile(s) or heathen. That is more than staggering, it is preposterous.

The reason why Gentiles is used especially in Acts and Romans is because the translators also interpreted scripture. They assumed that because some people were of Greek origin (they changed the Greek word Hellen for Greek to Gentile), they must then be a non-Jew and therefore used the incorrect term, Gentile(s).

Two ridiculous examples:

(Mat 20:19) And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again. (KJV)

So, Jesus was delivered to the NON-JEWS? I don’t think so.

The Modern KJV fixed the error

(Mat 20:19) And they shall deliver Him to the nations to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He shall rise again.(MKJV)

(Luk 2:32) A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. (KJV)

To the NON-JEWS?

The Modern KJV fixed the error

(Luk 2:32) a light for revelation to the nations, and the glory of Your people Israel. (MKJV)

In the last 100 years several Bible translators have attempted to rectify this major blunder of the KJV Bible and a few early English versions. They have managed to fix some of the errors and replaced the word gentile(s) or heathen with the correct meanings from the original Hebrew or Greek original words.

What say you on this subject, as being part of the ridiculous word, Gentiles or even the Heathen?

Bless you,

APAK
 

amadeus

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And what should a person do for scripture? Not all people are scholars in the original written languages of the Bible nor could they be, nor should they be. The way the scriptures are is certainly as God wants them to be... if He really has control over His plan as I do believe He does.

You may well be correct in much of what you say with regard to which words have been used and what they have meant and what they do now mean to different people. My point would be that if a person is hungry and thirsty after the righteousness of God will he not still be filled?

In all cases if we are to read the scripture at all to receive anything from God, unless we are already extremely well versed in the languages, we must trust God in that the translators put down what He wanted them to put down, even if it might not match for His reasons man's best translation, which ever one that might be.

Even presuming you were correct in every one of your statements, why should any person trust you over what God has already put in his heart? You may be the world's greatest authority on the languages of scripture, but what is the wisdom of any man without also the lead of the Holy Spirit? And of course, how would we know that you were the greatest authority?

Again you may right on every point, but if so is it likely to make a difference to me or to others in how we treat the scriptures or in how we serve God? If so, why?
 
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APAK

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Amadeus:
One of the main points here is to make known that many verses translated into English must be reviewed and even looked as suspect - their words and meanings may be incorrect as I point out a few. Not to take all words for granted as being the best translation. Without this thought process it is easy to 'come off the rails' and formulate wild theories and statements that are based on incorrect words and their meanings.

As you said, not all are scholars including myself. I'm a student and offering some insight that I believe was led by the spirit within me. I have nothing to gain personally. This subject as other ones has always bugged me, and I just wanted to share it with others. Getting feedback is very useful.

Bless you,

APAK
 
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amadeus

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Amadeus:
One of the main points here is to make known that many verses translated into English must be reviewed and even looked as suspect - their words and meanings may be incorrect as I point out a few. Not to take all words for granted as being the best translation. Without this thought process it is easy to 'come off the rails' and formulate wild theories and statements that are based on incorrect words and their meanings.
Oh, I certainly don't disagree with your position. I was sort of trying to get a feel for where you are. Some of what you have said is not completely foreign to me. I read primarily the KJV in English and at age 74 I am unlikely to change that for a number of reasons.

One thing that I had previously noticed was "gentiles" being equal to "nations". I wasn't really studying it, but I do read the Bible in two other languages and after a while the differences between the English, the Spanish and German caught my attention. Other words from time to time catch my attention and cause me to check against my other Bibles or a lexicon. Slowly I continue to learn, hopefully as God directs. Sometimes as I indicated there is a purpose in an apparent error. God always knows what He is doing. Causing me to look something up or causing you to initiate your particular study on these things were without a doubt part of God's plan as well.

As you said, not all are scholars including myself. I'm a student and offering some insight that I believe was led by the spirit within me. I have nothing to gain personally. This subject as other ones has always bugged me, and I just wanted to share it with others. Getting feedback is very useful.
It is good that your purpose is not really such a selfish one although in a sense it might still be selfish. The basic selfishness of men is something Jesus did not practice. He practiced rather a selflessness. Nonetheless there is a kind of selfishness that is probably not wrong and may be good. God knows. He leads each one of us when we are willing to follow to places where sees a need that we can supply.
Bless you,

APAK
And may God richly bless you in your walk with Him as well.
 
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APAK

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Oh, I certainly don't disagree with your position. I was sort of trying to get a feel for where you are. Some of what you have said is not completely foreign to me. I read primarily the KJV in English and at age 74 I am unlikely to change that for a number of reasons.

One thing that I had previously noticed was "gentiles" being equal to "nations". I wasn't really studying it, but I do read the Bible in two other languages and after a while the differences between the English, the Spanish and German caught my attention. Other words from time to time catch my attention and cause me to check against my other Bibles or a lexicon. Slowly I continue to learn, hopefully as God directs. Sometimes as I indicated there is a purpose in an apparent error. God always knows what He is doing. Causing me to look something up or causing you to initiate your particular study on these things were without a doubt part of God's plan as well.


It is good that your purpose is not really such a selfish one although in a sense it might still be selfish. The basic selfishness of men is something Jesus did not practice. He practiced rather a selflessness. Nonetheless there is a kind of selfishness that is probably not wrong and may be good. God knows. He leads each one of us when we are willing to follow to places where sees a need that we can supply.

And may God richly bless you in your walk with Him as well.

Thank you for your reply. Bless you and your days ahead Amadeus....Our Father in heaven

APAK
 
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bbyrd009

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And what should a person do for scripture? Not all people are scholars in the original written languages of the Bible nor could they be, nor should they be.
hmm
we are hardly in thrall to a single Translation anymore, as it was even 20 years ago, when even consulting a Lexicon was a labor.
But i guess we had Interlinears even then? Free online Greek New Testament, interlinear, parsed and per word translation
The way the scriptures are is certainly as God wants them to be... if He really has control over His plan as I do believe He does.
Amen; hidden from the wise
In all cases if we are to read the scripture at all to receive anything from God, unless we are already extremely well versed in the languages, we must trust God in that the translators put down what He wanted them to put down, even if it might not match for His reasons man's best translation, which ever one that might be.
i have to disagree wadr, and vehemently, with the bolded part. We are plainly told that the Book is subject to scribes, and there is now no excuse to read crap imo. Googling the etymology of a suspected term is a click away now too

now in another sense i do agree with you; trust that God wanted Scripture hidden from the wise, and scribes serve God too, sure.
 
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bbyrd009

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why should any person trust you over what God has already put in his heart?
bc the heart is deceitful above all things, and beyond cure?
(bc God sends strong delusions too, right)
Not that i would advocate trusting anyone, either; trust the fire!
Trust many witnesses--which does not mean "only those of my inbred sect,"
and i guess also does not mean that you have to agree with any witnesses either, but rather
"trust the conclusions you arrive at after listening to many witnesses."

imo
 
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amadeus

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hmm
we are hardly in thrall to a single Translation anymore, as it was even 20 years ago, when even consulting a Lexicon was a labor.
But i guess we had Interlinears even then? Free online Greek New Testament, interlinear, parsed and per word translation
I was using computers on my government job long before I used the Internet much, but I was already from an old school in my studies and used my own books [made of paper] or visited the local library for infrequent deeper research. For years I had used the computer at work. I used for storage and computations, but until I became involved in Internet forums I failed to understand the potential for searching and understanding the scriptures. Of course, my 10 years backslid from God running until 2002 hit during some of the same time. I retired from my job in 2000.
Amen; hidden from the wise

Indeed!
i have to disagree wadr, and vehemently, with the bolded part. We are plainly told that the Book is subject to scribes, and there is now no excuse to read crap imo. Googling the etymology of a suspected term is a click away now too

now in another sense i do agree with you; trust that God wanted Scripture hidden from the wise, and scribes serve God too, sure.
In was in this second sense of yours that I was mostly speaking. Men can fool men but in spite of their best or worst efforts, they cannot fool or hide things from God.
 
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amadeus

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bc the heart is deceitful above all things, and beyond cure?
(bc God sends strong delusions too, right)
Not that i would advocate trusting anyone, either; trust the fire!
Trust many witnesses--which does not mean "only those of my inbred sect,"
and i guess also does not mean that you have to agree with any witnesses either, but rather
"trust the conclusions you arrive at after listening to many witnesses."

imo
Ah yes, the witnesses. Good witnesses are good, but not all witnesses are good ones. There is such a thing as perjury.

@APAK Thus far my impression of your witness is good. This doesn't mean I will agree with you on every point in every discussion, but it does means you appear to be sincere. That is worth a whole lot.
 
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APAK

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Ah yes, the witnesses. Good witnesses are good, but not all witnesses are good ones. There is such a thing as perjury.

@APAK Thus far my impression of your witness is good. This doesn't mean I will agree with you on every point in every discussion, but it does means you appear to be sincere. That is worth a whole lot.
Amadeus:
I usually mediate and prayer, not heavily, although over time and let the spirit of God bring understanding to my eyes. Meanwhile I incubate these new ideas and keep testing them with what I've already been taught.

Some of these ideas are not too simplistic either to present to a wide audience.
I don't present junk or tales of fiction to anyone. I stopped that childish stuff in my teens. I cannot mislead another person, even myself, especially one of God.

Bless you,

APAK
 
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amadeus

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Amadeus:
I usually mediate and prayer, not heavily, although over time and let the spirit of God bring understanding to my eyes. Meanwhile I incubate these new ideas and keep testing them with what I've already been taught.

Some of these ideas are not too simplistic either to present to a wide audience.
I don't present junk or tales of fiction to anyone. I stopped that childish stuff in my teens. I cannot mislead another person, even myself, especially one of God.

Bless you,

APAK
Our purpose is where the truth [and I do mean "Jesus" when I say "truth"] really lies. There is a psalm that many people where I attend services frequently "paraphrase" which is full of meaning to me and apparently to some others... but not necessarily the same meaning. What follows is from the KJV:

"But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel." Psalm 22:3

The way people usually paraphrase it is: "God dwells in the phrases of His people". I have never heard a preacher or teacher actually quote the verse verbatim in any translation and I may also understand why. This in a measure fits into your subject here, does it not?



 
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APAK

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Our purpose is where the truth [and I do mean "Jesus" when I say "truth"] really lies. There is a psalm that many people where I attend services frequently "paraphrase" which is full of meaning to me and apparently to some others... but not necessarily the same meaning. What follows is from the KJV:

"But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel." Psalm 22:3

The way people usually paraphrase it is: "God dwells in the phrases of His people". I have never heard a preacher or teacher actually quote the verse verbatim in any translation and I may also understand why. This in a measure fits into your subject here, does it not?


This verse Psalm 22:3 is very applicable..as we wait in full confidence that our prayers will be answered as we continue praising God for knowing the truth.

Bless you,

APAK
 
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prashanthd

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(Mat 20:19) And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again. (KJV)
So, Jesus was delivered to the NON-JEWS? I don’t think so.
The Modern KJV fixed the error (Mat 20:19) And they shall deliver Him to the nations to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He shall rise again.(MKJV)
What say you on this subject, ...

I cannot go through all the verses. This is what I understand from Matt 20:19
Matthew 20
19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

The word Gentiles is from greek word Ethnos meaning :
a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together - company, troop, swarm, a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus - the human family, a tribe, nation, people group, in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles, Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians.


Matthew 26
47 And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.
50 And Jesus said unto him,Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.
57 And they that had laid hold on Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.
66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.
67 Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands,



Matthew 27
27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers.
28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.
29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.
31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.


:) I still think that "gentiles" is the right word instead of "nations".
 

APAK

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I cannot go through all the verses. This is what I understand from Matt 20:19
Matthew 20
19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

The word Gentiles is from greek word Ethnos meaning :
a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together - company, troop, swarm, a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus - the human family, a tribe, nation, people group, in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles, Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians.


Matthew 26
47 And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.
50 And Jesus said unto him,Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.
57 And they that had laid hold on Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.
66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.
67 Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands,



Matthew 27
27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers.
28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.
29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.
31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.


:) I still think that "gentiles" is the right word instead of "nations".
prashanthd:

Reread my OP...I really believe you are missing the point....

How does this suit you..

Genesis 17:5: "A father of many nations (goyim) have I made thee."

If we substituted the meaning as in my OP title...non-Jew in this verse..

"A father of many non-Jews (goyim) have I made thee."
Is this then OK?

or how about,
Genesis 25:23: "And the LORD said unto her (Rebecca), Two nations are in thy womb"

"And the LORD said unto her (Rebecca), Two non-Jews or Non-Jew nations are in thy womb"

Is this OK for you?

I hope you get this serious OP...I would not take it lightly..it has consequences

Just re-read it

Bless you,

APAK
 

prashanthd

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prashanthd:

Reread my OP...I really believe you are missing the point....

How does this suit you..

Genesis 17:5: "A father of many nations (goyim) have I made thee."

If we substituted the meaning as in my OP title...non-Jew in this verse..

"A father of many non-Jews (goyim) have I made thee."
Is this then OK?

or how about,
Genesis 25:23: "And the LORD said unto her (Rebecca), Two nations are in thy womb"

"And the LORD said unto her (Rebecca), Two non-Jews or Non-Jew nations are in thy womb"

Is this OK for you?

I hope you get this serious OP...I would not take it lightly..it has consequences

Just re-read it

Bless you,

APAK

Your point from OP is that the original meaning for the Hebrew word goi is "people, tribes, or nations from any place" should be retained in all it's occurances. Am I correct?
 

APAK

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Your point from OP is that the original meaning for the Hebrew word goi is "people, tribes, or nations from any place" should be retained in all it's occurances. Am I correct?

prashanthd:

Ok the point is that the original words for a tribe, nations, peoples....were correct in Hebrew and the Greek. When it was translated into Latin is got all messed up. Then is got even more confusing when it was translated into English....it basically(Gentiles - no such thing as singular Gentile by the way) became the meaning for a non-Jew and not a generic tribe, nations, peoples anymore. In places in the Bible where 'Gentiles' are found they should be translated to the nations, the people etc....not left with a meaning as a non-Khazarian converted Jew. Most people don't know there is difference between a natural Jew and those converts centuries later, en-masse.

Your dictionary definition of Gentiles is correct, BUT it has the connotation of only meaning a non-Jew and then a false Jew only.

For example:
(Gal 2:15) We are Jewish by birth, not sinners from other nations. (GW) This is a very good translation as it defines a real Jew where a converted Jew would be different and they are clearing differentiated with them and other nations. If the word Gentiles was in place of other nations here, you might think that all natural Jews just lived in Judea. There were many that lived outside Judea, in the other nations...

(Gal 2:15) We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, (KJV)

IN Latin..
(Gal 2:15) nos natura Iudaei et non ex gentibus peccatores

Translation in English ...We are natural Judeans (Judahites) and not sinners of/from other nations.

Do you get my point.

Look at my previous posts..and add Gentiles in place of non-Jew

A father of many Gentiles (goyim) have I made thee."

It is correct to make Nations = Gentiles here? Thinking of the prevalent non-Jews meaning

Remember, secondary meanings are like poison,,, like a Judahite natural Jew = a Khazarian converted Jew and Gentiles = Khazarian converted Jews or JUST non-Jews

Bless you,

APAK
 
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I recently opened a thread on how a ‘new’ secondary meaning is being used by the modern ethnic Khazarian Jew, since the 17th century to convey they are the Jews of Christ’s time whether promoted by themselves and/or other Christians. It makes no difference. There is a term that is inextricably linked to these modern-day Jews. It is the word, Gentile(s) and even Heathen. It should never be there in scripture. So why is it still there?

The word Gentile(s) would later serve to legitimize and promote these same modern Jews. The introduction and meaning of the word Gentile(s) would also effectively demote Christianity to an inferior ‘spiritual’ class of person. That mindset has not changed today! It has caused much confusion.

Here’s a concise version of the evolution of the word gentile(s).

1. Originally the Hebrew term goi or goyim (plural) meant people(s), tribes, nations from ANY place on the earth, including themselves, the Hebrews and Israelites. This was the gold standard for the meaning.

2. The Greek picked it up and called the word ethne /ethnos for the same meaning as goy or goyim.

All would have been fine until the Latin speaking Catholics got involved, and not necessarily their fault at all.

3. The Catholic folks (Jerome and company- late 4th century) picked up the Greek word ethne/ethnos and in Latin Vulgate the word became the ‘Gentillis,’ an adjective and not a noun, for a person of a tribe or clan. They went even further however. It later meant a tribe ‘not of Rome,’ because the Catholics thought they were now the Israel in scripture. They invented a completely new meaning that Rome meant Israel. So that gentillis now meant ‘not Israel.’

4. Then the English translators BLINDLY took the Catholic Latin word gentillis and it became gentile(s). The meaning however stayed as ‘not of Israel.’ The adjective original form was changed to noun form by 1400 AD.

5. Since the 17th century when the English new word ‘Jew(s)’ was placed into Bibles for the first time, the word gentile(s) already in scripture, took on a new meaning. It now meant ‘not of the Jew,’ or ‘non-Jew.’ Now I will demonstrate how this name Gentile(s) is both a ridiculous word with a nonsensical meaning in scripture. The same goes for the word ‘Heathen.’

I will first use the English KJV Bible as by far the worst-case contributor of chaos with examples. And I will show how the Modern KJV fixed these at least example errors.

The English KJV Bible has the Hebrew words of goi or goyim and translates it as, in the OT: ‘gentiles’ 30x, ‘heathen’ 143x, ‘nation’ 114x, ‘nations’ 299x. The problem is that 30 times the word gentile is used and 143 times the word heathen is used in the OT. This means 42 percentage of the words for nations or peoples are incorrectly translated in the KJV in the OT. This is staggering.

Two ridiculous examples:

(Gen 10:5) By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. (KJV)

So, there were Islands of the (NON-JEWS)?

The Modern KJV fixed the error.

(Gen 10:5) By these were the coasts of the nations divided in their lands, every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations. (MKJV)

(Isa 42:1) Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. (KJV)

So, God is going to bring judgment to the (NON-JEWS). I thought it meant to the NATIONS or PEOPLES.

The MKJV fixed the error:

(Isa 42:1) Behold My Servant, whom I uphold; My Elect, in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit on Him; He shall bring out judgment to the nations. (MKJV)

Now let’s review the KJV NT words of Gentile and Heathen used the translation of the Greek ethne/ethnos

‘Gentiles’ 99x, heathen 7x, ‘nation’ 31x, ‘nations’ 37x. This means that 155 percentage of the words for nations or peoples are incorrectly translated in the KJV in the NT to gentile(s) or heathen. That is more than staggering, it is preposterous.

The reason why Gentiles is used especially in Acts and Romans is because the translators also interpreted scripture. They assumed that because some people were of Greek origin (they changed the Greek word Hellen for Greek to Gentile), they must then be a non-Jew and therefore used the incorrect term, Gentile(s).

Two ridiculous examples:

(Mat 20:19) And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again. (KJV)

So, Jesus was delivered to the NON-JEWS? I don’t think so.

The Modern KJV fixed the error

(Mat 20:19) And they shall deliver Him to the nations to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He shall rise again.(MKJV)

(Luk 2:32) A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. (KJV)

To the NON-JEWS?

The Modern KJV fixed the error

(Luk 2:32) a light for revelation to the nations, and the glory of Your people Israel. (MKJV)

In the last 100 years several Bible translators have attempted to rectify this major blunder of the KJV Bible and a few early English versions. They have managed to fix some of the errors and replaced the word gentile(s) or heathen with the correct meanings from the original Hebrew or Greek original words.

What say you on this subject, as being part of the ridiculous word, Gentiles or even the Heathen?

Bless you,

APAK

There is no confusion in the Scriptures. The Jews are the Jews. Israel is Israel. The Jews today are of the same people as the Jews in the Old Testament.

The Gentiles, or nations, or heathern, are just that. They are all other nations of peoples other than Jews.

It is not confusing at all. I think you are making it confusing.

Stranger
 

Helen

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prashanthd:

Reread my OP...I really believe you are missing the point....

How does this suit you..

Genesis 17:5: "A father of many nations (goyim) have I made thee."

If we substituted the meaning as in my OP title...non-Jew in this verse..

"A father of many non-Jews (goyim) have I made thee."
Is this then OK?

or how about,
Genesis 25:23: "And the LORD said unto her (Rebecca), Two nations are in thy womb"

"And the LORD said unto her (Rebecca), Two non-Jews or Non-Jew nations are in thy womb"

Is this OK for you?

I hope you get this serious OP...I would not take it lightly..it has consequences

Just re-read it

Bless you,

APAK

I was very glad to read this post...it helped me understand your OP. :)
 
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APAK

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I was very glad to read this post...it helped me understand your OP. :)

ByGrace thank you...We should all be using the Greek 'ethnos' derivative into English, nation, people, race instead of the Latin 'mistake' (Gentillis to English, Gentile) that caused the non-Jew secondary meaning to become prevalent in the meaning of the word Gentiles. I also brought this OP because the word Gentile now is perfect for those that want to believe that that natural Jews are not Gentiles which is ridiculous; they were a nation (ethnos). Words and their meanings do matter.

Some do not want to see this fine point because they have an agenda: Some want desperately want to call modern Israelis, the ancient Israelites to support their prophetic theories and writings.

Bless you,

APAK
 
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ScottA

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Amadeus:
One of the main points here is to make known that many verses translated into English must be reviewed and even looked as suspect - their words and meanings may be incorrect as I point out a few. Not to take all words for granted as being the best translation. Without this thought process it is easy to 'come off the rails' and formulate wild theories and statements that are based on incorrect words and their meanings.

As you said, not all are scholars including myself. I'm a student and offering some insight that I believe was led by the spirit within me. I have nothing to gain personally. This subject as other ones has always bugged me, and I just wanted to share it with others. Getting feedback is very useful.

Bless you,

APAK
I would caution and suggest, that God's providence over His word, is not subject to translations, but goes forth throughout all generations according to His will alone, in spite of the errors of men.

I would even go so far as to say that if it is not convincing that God as much as uses men's weakness to further the cause of His greater will - it should be, as "His strength is made perfect in weakness."

We know that God's word will not return void, and that men's weakness is overwhelming evident to men, and therefore certainly known to God. In other words, men could no more misguide the nations with words than they could save men with words. But, thank God - that is not how it works.