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Featured Sign of the son of Man?

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by theefaith, Sep 9, 2020.

  1. theefaith

    theefaith Active Member

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    Is 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

    Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great sign in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

    Mt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    Is Mary the sign of Jesus?
     
  2. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Hello again. I see you are still at it : )

    Ok, I'll bite, but I want you to engage me on this. Let's discuss all three passages in their contexts.

    29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31)

    First question: If Mary is the sign referred to here, then why is she supposedly appearing already in our time? This passage describes an event that takes place immediately after the tribulation period, which has not yet begun.

    1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. (Revelation 12:1-5)

    First question: If Mary is the sign referred to here, are you saying she was making heavenly appearances like at Fatima before His birth? This passage is about when Christ was born in Bethlehem 2,000 years ago. If so, was she making heavenly appearances while still alive in spirit, or was she making them before she lived in the flesh?

    1 And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it. 2 And it was told the house of David, saying, Syria is confederate with Ephraim. And his heart was moved, and the heart of his people, as the trees of the wood are moved with the wind. 3 Then said the Lord unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field; 4 And say unto him, Take heed, and be quiet; fear not, neither be fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin with Syria, and of the son of Remaliah. 5 Because Syria, Ephraim, and the son of Remaliah, have taken evil counsel against thee, saying, 6 Let us go up against Judah, and vex it, and let us make a breach therein for us, and set a king in the midst of it, even the son of Tabeal: 7 Thus saith the Lord God, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass. 8 For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people. 9 And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is Remaliah's son. If ye will not believe, surely ye shall not be established. 10 Moreover the Lord spake again unto Ahaz, saying, 11 Ask thee a sign of the Lord thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above. 12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the Lord. 13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. 16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. 17 The Lord shall bring upon thee, and upon thy people, and upon thy father's house, days that have not come, from the day that Ephraim departed from Judah; even the king of Assyria. 18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall hiss for the fly that is in the uttermost part of the rivers of Egypt, and for the bee that is in the land of Assyria. 19 And they shall come, and shall rest all of them in the desolate valleys, and in the holes of the rocks, and upon all thorns, and upon all bushes. 20 In the same day shall the Lord shave with a razor that is hired, namely, by them beyond the river, by the king of Assyria, the head, and the hair of the feet: and it shall also consume the beard. 21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a man shall nourish a young cow, and two sheep; 22 And it shall come to pass, for the abundance of milk that they shall give he shall eat butter: for butter and honey shall every one eat that is left in the land. 23 And it shall come to pass in that day, that every place shall be, where there were a thousand vines at a thousand silverlings, it shall even be for briers and thorns. 24 With arrows and with bows shall men come thither; because all the land shall become briers and thorns. 25 And on all hills that shall be digged with the mattock, there shall not come thither the fear of briers and thorns: but it shall be for the sending forth of oxen, and for the treading of lesser cattle. (Isaiah 7)

    First question: If Mary is the sign being referred to here, what good would the appearance of Mary have been to Ahaz? He was needing to know if Jerusalem was going to be overrun and conquered by Syria and Ephriam.
     
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  3. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    @theefaith. Are you there? Ready to start our discussion when you are.
     
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  4. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    Your three quotes speak of different events and so need be understood in their context. The word 'sign' having individual meanings in each text

    1....speaks of how the Messiah will come about.

    2. Rev.12:1 The woman representing God's people using several symbols....a pure woman, clothed with light, twelve stars being the sum of God's people
    This symbol of a pure woman in Rev. 12 is contrasted with a symbol of an impure woman in Rev. 17

    3. Mt 24:30. Speaking of the second coming of Jesus
     
  5. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    @theefaith, where are you? I see you've created yet another new thread while still not responding to this one...

    You see, that's what I had a problem with before. You want this entire forum to be consumed with Catholicism night and day, world without end, and nothing else apparently, and yet when I try to engage you in a substantive discussion you avoid me, but have time to create yet another new thread on Catholicism.

    I didn't create this thread, you did.

    @Marymog. Can you please speak to theefaith about addressing the myriad of threads he is constantly creating? I have a serious problem with him monopolizing this forum as I was telling you. He could at least answer me.
     
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  6. theefaith

    theefaith Active Member

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    I’m here!

    Btw I do have a full time job .

    overwhelming your adversary is and old technique, so slow down and we can take one point at a time. And I only share what I understand in the Bible not an official church position, I’ve never posted one, only scripture, I’m not a priest, bishop, etc. just obeying Jude 1:3 and there is only one Christian Faith, eph 4:5 Phil 1:27 1 Pet 3:8 and many more
     
  7. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Well that's what I'm saying, LoL. You are going overboard with the threads : )
    Yes, but you presented all three passages as a package deal, so I addressed all three in response. If not I would be guilty of picking and choosing only those I wanted to respond to, yes?
    Again, my good man, if you are going to barrage this forum with threads, you need to be prepared to address comments on what you post. There are a lot of people in this community, the vast majority in fact, who do not consider Catholicism to be the one true faith, and you need to stop with the Catholic battering ram thread creation stuff unless you can keep up with it. Frankly I don't see how anyone could keep up with 15+ threads in two weeks, so just lighten up with the Catholic take over. It's too many threads.
     
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  8. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Hi HIH,

    If it's not Mary then who is it?

    If you have already given your theory on this subject I don't know where to find it and I aplologize....
     
  9. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Mary, the only reason it's personal is because of the reasons I was laying out in Post #7. I wouldn't like it if somebody came in here and immediately posted 15+ threads on how Seventh Day Adventism is the one true faith either. It's irritating and disrespectful of this community.

    But he showed up and responded.
    Am I going to have that conversation with you now or him? That's another thing that is going to irritate me, because you are coming to his rescue so he can keep marathon posting this site to death with an endless stream of Catholicism threads. To quote what I said to him in Post #7:

    "If you are going to barrage this forum with threads, you need to be prepared to address comments on what you post. There are a lot of people in this community, the vast majority in fact, who do not consider Catholicism to be the one true faith, and you need to stop with the Catholic battering ram thread creation stuff unless you can keep up with it. Frankly I don't see how anyone could keep up with 15+ threads in two weeks, so just lighten up with the Catholic take over. It's too many threads."
     
  10. theefaith

    theefaith Active Member

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    sorry I did not know there was a speed limit
     
  11. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    "THEE Faith," I have mentioned this before. If you are going to take over this website with Catholic threads like you own the place, come with something other than meaningless little snippets of nothing. Your contribution to the community is post after post after post of little remarks that lack any resemblance of being substantive.

    Answer Post #2 and let's get on with it. If you've got time to chirp worthless little sentences, you have time to post something worth reading.
     
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  12. theefaith

    theefaith Active Member

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    Not trying to take over anything! It’s an open forum anyone can post anything far as I know?
     
  13. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    No Mary is not the sign of Jesus. That woman in Revelation 12 represents redeemed Israel, and the 12 stars represent the 12 tribes.

    The sign of Christ at His Second Coming will be the brightness of His coming: For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Mt 24:27)

    When Christ comes with all His saints and angels, the sky will be brighter than any lightning and this brightness will be seen around the world. But it will only produce universal weeping, and wailing, and mourning, since it signifies judgment.
     
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  14. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Not a speed limit but a limit to inane threads (not official policy but common sense).
     
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  15. theefaith

    theefaith Active Member

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    She is the sign of the son of man from genesis to revelation and for ever!

    Gods sign and promise!

    gen 3:15 sinless
    Luke 1
    Jn 1:14 word made flesh, She is the ark of the new covenant dwelling place of God!
    Jn 2:11 His disciples believed cos of the sign’s intercession
    Jn 19:26-27 our mother
    Rev. 12:1 faithful Israel was a type of Mary!
    Matt 24 She is the sign that will be seen in the heavens at His return!
    Mary is the sign of the Son of Man!

    Jesus is not know cos Mary is not known!
    Over 500 yrs ago Nine million, that’s right nine million natives care to faith in Christ in Mexico because of Her! The woman clothed with the sun!
     
  16. theefaith

    theefaith Active Member

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    Israel is a type of Mary!
    Or since when did Israel’s children keep the commandments or have the testimony of Jesus! They instead were saying crucify Him and His blood be upon us and our children!
     
  17. theefaith

    theefaith Active Member

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    There will be no lighting, that’s a metaphor
     
  18. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    It would have been nice to talk about the scriptures you quoted. Unfortunately we never got past a single question on any of them.

    It just bothers me that people would rather discuss religion than scripture itself, even when they quote it.
     
  19. theefaith

    theefaith Active Member

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    It’s all good, that’s just my understanding, like when it says Is 7:14 God will provide a sign, I believe Him, A Virgin is that sign, Mary? You do believe in the Virgin birth?
     
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