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Sin, Transgression, Iniquity. All the same?

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by GodsGrace, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Exodus 34:6-7
    The Lord said to Moses.
    6Then the LORD passed by in front of him and proclaimed, “The LORD, the LORD God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in loving kindness and truth;
    7who keeps loving kindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.”


    Apparently there's a difference.
    I'd say the order is: sin, transgression, iniquity

    SIN

    The true meaning is "missing the mark". John 3:4
    Falling short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23

    The Greek word for “sin” is hamartia, an archery term for “missing the mark.”
    And which mark do we miss? The reason for our entire life....our relationship with God.
    God put us here to choose HIM, when we don't, we don't just make mistakes and sin...we also turn our back on the very God that made us for the purpose of loving Him.

    In Christian theology
    Main article: Hamartiology
    Hamartia is also used in Christian theology because of its use in the Septuagint and New Testament. The Hebrew (chatá) and its Greek equivalent (àµaρtίa/hamartia) both mean "missing the mark" or "off the mark".[9][10][11]

    There are four basic usages for hamartia:

    1. Hamartia is sometimes used to mean acts of sin "by omission or commission in thought and feeling or in speech and actions" as in Romans 5:12, "all have sinned".[12]
    2. Hamartia is sometimes applied to the fall of man from original righteousness that resulted in humanity's innate propensity for sin, that is original sin.[13] For example, as in Romans 3:9, everyone is "under the power of sin".[14]
    3. A third application concerns the "weakness of the flesh" and the free will to resist sinful acts. "The original inclination to sin in mankind comes from the weakness of the flesh."[15]
    4. Hamartia is sometimes "personified".[16] For example, Romans 6:20 speaks of being enslaved to hamartia (sin).

    source: Hamartia - Wikipedia

    Examples of sin:
    Evil thoughts, adultery, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness,deceit, lewdness, pride, heresies, envy.
    Mark 7:21-22
    Galatians 5:19-21

    There are sins of commission, omission, thought.
    Man has always sinned. Each one of us is responsible for our own sin.




    TRANSGRESSION

    Before Moses was given the Law (the 10 commandments) there was no law.
    If there is no law, how could there be sin?

    Sin has always existed. Men have always broken the laws of God.
    Romans 5:12-15
    12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
    13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
    14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
    15But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.

    The transgression spoken of in verse 15 is the commandment Adam broke...the commandment God gave him to not eat of the tree of knowledge.

    So transgression is to break a law...to cross the line.

    But Romans 5 tells us that there were no laws until God gave them to Moses.
    In this way, the persons that lived in this time period were not imputed sins to their account, but they still sinned. As Romans 1:18-32 tells us, man always knew when they were breaking a law,,,be it of their tribe, their government, and even their God if they believed because of their conscience --- man has always had a God-given conscience.

    Romans 1:21, 28, 32. Verse 13 above.

    Although these persons did not sin as Adam did by transgressing the law, verse 14, they still sinned and they still died because of the effects of Adam's sin.

    After Moses was given the commandments, men transgressed when they sinned because now there was a law. If we run a red light when there is a law, we transgress that law and are held responsible for it. If there is no law, we still make the mistake since passing a red light is dangerous. The difference with this example is that God has much higher standards than we do and if we sinned even before the law, there were still consequences to be paid...Distance from God in this life will also cause distance from God in the next life.


    INIQUITY

    If sin and transgression are continued and become a life style, they become iniquity...this causes spiritual death.
    Isaiah 59:2

    But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.

    Jeremiah 14:10
    10Thus says the LORD to this people, “Even so they have loved to wander; they have not kept their feet in check. Therefore the LORD does not accept them; now He will remember their iniquity and call their sins to account.”

    The O.T. also speaks about the iniquities of the fathers being passed on to the sons up to the third and fourth generation.

    Exodus 34:7
    7who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.”



    Iniquities are passed on,,,not imputed to the children and grandchildren.
    How?
    1. The children hate God.
    Exodus 20:5
    5“You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

    2. High blood pressure, alcoholism, jealousy, etc. are passed down from generation to generation.

    3. James speaks to this:
    James 1:15
    15Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

    Sin
    Transgression
    Iniquity







     
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  2. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    ah, i guess it's just now midnight, huh


    hey, pretty nice imo
    you gonna do one on the next three too, death, confession, salvation?
    :D
     
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  3. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Depending on the seriousness of the sin, various terms are used, and you are correct on the progressive seriousness of sin, transgression, and iniquity. At the same time, all of them are transgressions (or violations) of God's moral and spiritual laws.

    And even though there was no written code of Law until Moses, God had given human beings a conscience, which was meant to be a reflection of the Ten Commandments. See Romans 1 & 2. So God did hold men accountable ever since Adam and Eve, and there is ample proof of this in Genesis prior to the Ten Commandments. Indeed Noah's Flood was a severe judgment.
     
  4. djstav

    djstav Active Member

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    Once when I was worried about how to obey & follow Jesus, my old Christian mentor said "What do you need to do?"

    Is it

    WWJD (What would Jesus do?)

    Or

    WJDD (What Jesus did do?)
     
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  5. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Picture a road...with 2 ditches....one on either side of the road. At the end of the road picture a target. Transgression is the sins of the flesh...the normal sins of rebellion for non-believers. To the right there is iniquity....like the sins of the Pharisees...religious sins of pride and lies and half-truths. The road is the way of righteousness whereby we can fall short by missing the target through sin.

    So it is...Pesha - Chata-ah - Avon

    As a person leaves the world's sins behind they climb up onto the road from the ditch. But many people don't know righteousness so they keep going only to become religious by falling into the ditch on the other side. Jesus said the blind lead the blind so that they both fall into the ditch. Which ditch? Well, not the one that they know to be rebellious sin.....

    It is very common for people who try to be godly to fall into iniquity. The ditch is full of people like that. When you try to warn them about this...they won't listen. They will not receive correction.
     
  6. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    All the same GG. No need to make it complicated.
    The Law is a transcript of God's character. It is unchangeable and everlasting. Any attempt to abrogate or change God's Law does not have its origin in him
     
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  7. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    I see you began with death.
    Seems wrong, maybe.
    But it's right!
    OR maybe it's confession, death, salvation?
    YOU do this?
     
  8. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    well, "death" is even listed as a result there @ "iniquity," but i'm not sure it shouldn't come right after sin myself. I dunno how much confession takes place once a sin has become iniquity.

    We are all swimming in iniquity, of course. At least the vast majority. Most of us think nothing of putting gas in a car and driving it, or using a styrofoam cup, stuff like that. These are "normal" to us now, but burning coal for energy is literally insane, knowing what we know now. It's diff when it's done in ignorance, but who can say they are ignorant now?

    would you listen to a believer who contradicted themselves? sure you would, if they were family, but you would just note that they were not to be followed, right; you forgive them iow, and hope that they came to confession, which is not what happens in a closet at all of course, to be clear no confession has ever been made to anyone in private, not ever, that is another little joke, easily seen by asking would you be embarrassed if the confession were to become public, too, along with the public knowledge of the sin confessed?

    so i see another fork there, if sin is not quickly confessed it becomes transgression, where it's already prolly too late, and if you get to iniquity (in your model up there) the sin cannot even be seen anymore imo, at least in a very real sense, of course others can see it, and even warn one about it, we got like 50 believers in here right now justifying "warning" other ppl of their sin, right, no, sorry, their iniquity, not realizing that when they scoff at some mention of their own iniquity they have sealed their doom.

    Burning hydrocarbons and using styrofoam cups are sins, grave sins prolly, that can easily turn into iniquities i guess.
    i still do them both. But see how even the open confession here in this example (that is not true in every detail, but i just have to use myself to make the example) would work a change; obv i might be much more conscious of regulating my use of these, i might re-use the styrofoam cup, or find a less wasteful alt, etc.

    So, how do you catch iniquities like using styrofoam cups (say) while they are still sins, that the sinner might still be able to hear you? It isn't a mystery, our corporations used to be required to defend their charters, etc.
    But everyone is asleep now
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  9. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    that was my initial reaction too, but i see a diff now in sin and iniquity. i think there is even a passage about this progression that has not quite come to mind yet, get back to you when it clicks in :)
     
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  10. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    While this may be off topic, burning coal for energy is perfectly sane, since there is technology available to ensure that pollutants are not released into the atmosphere.

    "... the term 'clean coal' is increasingly being used for supercritical and ultra-supercritical coal-fired plants without CCS, running at 42-48% thermal efficiency. These are also known as high-efficiency low-emission (HELE) plants. The capital cost of ultra-supercritical (USC) HELE technology is 20-30% greater than a subcritical unit, but the higher efficiency reduces emissions and fuel costs to about 75% of subcritical plants. A supercritical steam generator operates at very high temperature (about 600°C) and pressures (above 22 MPa), where liquid and gas phases of water are no longer distinct. In Japan and South Korea about 70% of coal-fired power comes from supercritical and ultra-supercritical plants."

    Clean Coal Technologies | Carbon Capture and Storage | CCS - World Nuclear Association
     
  11. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    What about...WIJD What is Jesus doing?

    Or just...WWOD...What would Oprah do?
     
  12. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    I stated all of the above...
    My only comment is that you cannot transgress a law that does not exist.
    Transgression requires a law.
     
  13. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    And I referred you to Romans 1 & 2, which you probably failed to read. So please focus on this passage which tells us that God's laws exist within the conscience of every person (saved or unsaved):

    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse...

    10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

    11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

    12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

    13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

    14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

    15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)

    16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
     
  14. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    E, I'm very familiar with the book of Romans.
    I DID state about the conscience in my O.P.

    We're speaking past each other. Why?
    Sin always existed. Man always had a conscience.
    God and Adam were in relationship...Then it was broken. A sin was committed.

    What I'm saying is that there was SIN but there was not TRANSGRESSION.
    In order for there to be transgression there must be a WRITTEN law.
    If you cross a red light, but there is no written law, you have not transgressed,,,you've done something wrong, but you have not broken a law.

    I think this is our point of diversion.
     
  15. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    It had to be WWJD.
    Why?
    Because Jesus did not encounter each and every act of a moral essence that He could have commented upon. For instance, the N.T. does not speak about abortion but it does speak about murder. It does not speak about drugs, but it does say not to get drunk on anything.

    So if something comes up that is not specifically written about, we'd have to ask:
    WWJD.
    What Would Jesus Do?
     
  16. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    You're saying the transgression is a TYPE of sin....sins of the flesh. Aren't all sins of the flesh? Which would not be?

    Was there transgression BEFORE there was a written law? Or do we need a written law in order to transgress?

    Pride would be a sin that could lead to iniquity, as you've stated.
    It's not a "one time" sin but is on-going and can lead to a life of sin, which is what iniquity is; one is not even aware anymore that he is sinning because it becomes ingrained.

    Agreed.
    I'd like to add that the sacrifices of the O.T. were for UNKNOWN sins.
    Those that were known were forgiven when asked,,,,for the unknown, sacrifice was made.
     
  17. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    You're right in that it's all sin,,,but there are differences.
    It could help us to know what the differences are.

    But are you saying that I'M attempting to change God's law??
    HOW is His law being changed in any way by defining the sin?
     
  18. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    James 1:14-15
    14But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.
    15Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.


    ??
     
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  19. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    There are sins of the flesh.....the soul, and the spirit. We are a bit complex as we do things improperly and mix in what makes us up ....the mixture between the soul and spirit being the worst kind of sin. Transgression is what we do physically wrong. But it is the soul following the body. So then it is a mixture of body and soul...with the soul choosing the ways of the body. The extreme of this sin is hedonism....living for the sake of pleasure. The world is a playground for this type of thing.


    When you mix in soul and spirit you get iniquity. Notice that the word of God is as a sword to cut BETWEEN the soul and spirit. So then the word of God is trying to keep the soul out of things that involve the Spirit. These forums are FULL of that error. We are not to add in private interpretations....but anything that isn't revealed from above....is a private interpretation. Add to that what the devil has sown as false doctrine...and it becomes very difficult to sort out the truth from the half-truths that abound. But God is seeking a direct contact and fellowship with us. Anything that denies this is from an evil motive.


    As for missing the mark...that is a sin of the soul without mixture. There is a way that seems right....but we miss the mark so often. So then the middle of the road sin is trying to do what is right...but failing at times...and always missing the perfect mark.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
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  20. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    i'm passing curious how this is even accomplished, where your posts are getting inserted into the previous quote?
     
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