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Featured Single-eyed Object

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Netchaplain, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    As we become more aware and understanding of the sinful nature we must also realize our Father’s conclusion concerning it, which is that He is for the present satisfied in the Cross of Christ concerning its being in the believer, thus we are to be encouraged concerning the knowledge of its “condemnation” in us (Rom 8:3), for this clears His side of the evil—from our old man to the Cross, providing us with the pleasure of our “acceptance” concerning it (Eph 1:6).
    - NC




    Single-eyed Object

    Every believer owns that his sins could not be remitted but through the shed Blood of Christ. “Without the shedding of blood there is no remission”; but there is a want of clarity in almost everyone as to the way in which the flesh—its will, that actual principle that works it—is set aside.

    Every conscientious believer admits that not an atom of the offensive thing can go into the Father’s presence; and strange and numerous are the expedients adopted to get rid of, or eliminate this troubler. From purgatory up to devotional efforts, there is the avowed desire to get clear of the sinful old man. The conscientious must desire, for a two-fold reason (though he might not be able to say so), to get rid of the rule of the flesh.

    Every believer admits that he has committed, and does commit, sins; that even “the thought of foolishness is sin” (Pro 24:9); but while he seeks to have an untroubled conscience with regard to himself, he has not real freedom before God. It is simply because he does not see how the Cross removed the old man from the eye of God. Hence, he must, according to his light, resort to some method by which this grievous thing in him may be extinguished.

    A Romanist thinks he can reach that by penance here, and purgatory hereafter, and this in itself is an admission that there is no use in being forgiven the fruit of the flesh, unless the root of it be reached. I only refer to the Romanist, because there is with him such an imitation, or counterfeit, of the real thing; for the truly conscientious is not merely satisfied that there is forgiveness of his actual sin, but he requires that there should be judgment on the parent flesh itself.

    I am not only forgiven, but I see the enormity of my transgressions in the ashes—the token of the accomplished judgment which Christ bore on the Cross. The remembrance of this judgment is brought to me by the Spirit of Christ.

    Another looks for perfection in the flesh, so that with him forgiveness is not enough; but he expects, through the work of the Spirit, to be improved, which really means to convert the bad into good; and this is called sanctification. But with this doctrine, as a necessity, it is held that if the flesh breaks out again, there is no conversion at all; and that the one who was regarded as a child of God today is, when he sins, no longer so, but a child of the devil.

    The ritualist proposes to propagate through the elements of Christ’s death, and altered nature in himself. Holiness by faith is another from in which some believers seek to escape from the flesh in its principle, after they have received the forgiveness of sins. The doctrine of surrender of the will is an offshoot of this; while another form, very specious, but more disguised and pernicious, in proportion to is secrecy, is the sentimental delight which leads one to think that the less earthly he is, the more spiritual he is.

    That sin in its root is in the flesh, I entirely admit; but my position now is, that I have the Spirit of Christ dwelling in me, and He manifests Christ in me. We find that Christ, according to the will of God, has brought to an end, judicially, in His own death unto sin, the old man—and thus the believer is “not in the flesh, but in the Spirit” (Rom 8:9): and the Lord Jesus Christ is the exclusive delight and object of the believer’s heart.

    - J B Stoney




    Excerpt from MJS devotional for Jan. 4:

    “Has the Father led you into the desert? Has He plucked from under your feet all that you depended upon? Then a glorious experience is yours. See if this be not a way whereby God will glorify you! Do not complain about what you have lost, and do not yearn to have it back again, for then you are like Israel who wished to turn back to Egypt. God leads on, and instead of the flesh-pots He gives you bread from heaven, and instead of water from the Nile, water from the Rock.

    “But you must put your trust in Him also in the desert, and through the days of darkness and difficulty. This is possible, however, only for those who have lost their self-assurance in the desert whereunto God beckons His children.”
    None But The Hungry Heart
     
  2. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    It seems that Stoney's words miss the point of the new covenant salvation. The way the believer overcomes sin is rather simple. It is by observing the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus." (Ro 8:2) According to that law (Mt 22:37-40), the Holy Ghost within us exudes the love of the Father and of others such that it fulfills all the commandments that God gave us to obey in the flesh.

    Think about it: If you do all out of love for God and others and not for selfish reasons, what law are you going to disobey? None, right? And this is the sure sign that the Holy Ghost lives in you and through you.

    skypair
     
  3. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    This is the man of sin that is revealed.
     
  4. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    Hi SP - Thanks for your input, and I believe I understand your comments. It's my understanding that manifesting God's will is in where it all begins, which is in the desire. That is, it's no longer believers desire to "willfully sin" (Heb 10:26) and thus we do not overcome sin but this manifests sin in us has already been overcome--by Christ who is in us. Believers obey out of the desire and ability God puts in Them (Phil 2:13), even though He already knows (nor expects) this walk cannot be without sin (which He also knows we desire). The sin source is still in us, but we are not in it (Rom 8:9).

    Blessings!
     
  5. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    Hi Scott, and appreciate your input! Scripture refers to the sin nature as "the old man," and has members as a body does (i.e. Col 3:5), but it's actually just a nature and not an entity (man or spirit being). I also believe the "man of sin" will be a literal man or a succession of men in the latter times during the great tribulation.

    Blessings!
     
  6. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Not to appear unkind, but on the contrary, both the old man of flesh and the new man born again of the spirit of God are specifically said to be "created" independently.

    As for the man of sin...it is because you have not looked at the man of flesh and the man of spirit independently, that you have come to this conclusion. These are the latter times...and the man of sin is revealed - which is the manifestation or creation of the flesh.

    Blessings to you as well!
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  7. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Thanks, nc. For the reasons you and I agree on, I dislike hearing believers say, "I am a sinner saved by grace." Actually, we are no longer of the sin nature but of the Christ-nature in our soul. When we sin, it isn't from the heart but from the weakness of the flesh. We are in the same state as Paul in Ro 7:15-23 when he was under the law. The only thing that has changed is that we are under the "law of the Spirit…" and so our motive is always love towards God and others — and love has more power over our behavior than does the law.

    skypair
     
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  8. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Well, I think you are on to something here. There is a mystery involved — the mystery of iniquity, 2Thes 2:7 and it will soon be manifest in one person, "that Wicked." But the mystery is this: the spirit of antichrist in the church. It is the idea that the man of flesh is not surrendered to the man of the spirit through faith in Christ .. not knowing that it is the man of the spirit that will be taken out in the rapture.

    skypair
     
  9. DPMartin

    DPMartin Well-Known Member

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    NC do you even know, what the original sin is, that places every son of man in a condemned state by just being born into the world?
     
  10. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    No unkindness taken, thanks! We are of a different understanding concerning the man of sin.
     
  11. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    Hi DPM - To me, original sin is the sin nature of Adam and Eve, which is inherited by all their posterity.
     
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  12. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Yes, "there shall be two in a field, and one shall be taken, and one left." But, to be clear, as Paul explained, this does not come as a mass event, but "each in his own order."
     
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  13. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Yeah, 1Cor 15:23-24 is talking about the 3 raptures. 1) When Jesus was taken up on the 3rd day, He took "captivity captive" which included those who came out of their graves (Mt 27:52) the day of His crucifixion. 2) Then the pretrib rapture, 3) and then at the end of the Millennial Kingdom while the earth is being reformed (Rev 20:11, 21:1).

    skypair
     
  14. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    You are still trying to impose a worldly timeline on a timeless God. The rapture is one, just as "God is one", and the only distinction regarding different times is given by God and by Christ is the "dead" rising and the "living", and the one "fold" and the "other." "The first shall be last and the last first." But all these "were" accomplished "once for all", for it is "with Christ" that we "died" and "were" raised, and He is One and "there is no more sacrifice", but the One.

    Pay close attention to the proper tense. Have I not been clear?
     
  15. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    It's clear .. but why do you take away the timeline? Rather I would say that when Jesus said "take up your cross and follow Me," Let me just show you the beauty of our participation with Christ. Jesus was on the cross when He said, "Why hast thou forsaken Me." That is what we say when convicted of sin (even Job said this, 7:20-21). His relationship was cut off from the Father like ours was. He looked up to heaven and prayed (Lk 23:46), "'Into Thy hands, Father, I commend My spirit," and He gave up the ghost.'" He showed us the way! We must pray the Father commending our spirit to Him and giving our life into His hands.

    What happened to Jesus will happen to us. The Father sent the Holy Ghost (God's spiritual body) to regenerate/resurrect Him to new life. That is what He does for us -- Titus 3:5, "by the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Ghost." So His part was one time -- ours is another, "today is the day of salvation."

    skypair
     
  16. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    The answer is that with God there is no timeline, and we are suppose to decrease, while He increases, by the renewing of our mind about such things... and seek first the kingdom of God.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  17. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Excellent, good post.
     
  18. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    "Seek first" is the sign that we are to live in the course of time. Decreasing and increasing, likewise. And so there is a timeline with salvation. There has to be that day that you enter into covenant with God in the name of Jesus Christ. After that, you are "building" up your Holy Ghost "in the faith." You are building up the person who will appear before Christ in the "day of Christ."

    What those who haven't had that day of entering into covenant don't realize is that they are building of a "ghost" that they are creating daily by their own will that will appear at the great white throne. That "ghost," spiritual body, will be judged and cast into the lake of fire in teh 2nd death.

    Get you a KJV Bible and study the mentions of Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit in all later translations). Hopefully you will see the, whereas the Spirit gives us the knowledge of God, the Holy Ghost (another Christ, "Comforter") gives us understanding of God. And the Holy Ghost is only given to those who have obeyed the gospel (Acts 5:32) by repenting to God in the name of Jesus Christ in order to enter into covenant with God (Acts 2:38).

    skypair
     
  19. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    All of that is just your understanding, which if you lean that way, you will be wrong most of the time, which is what is evident here.

    The words must be discerned spiritually.

    Have you learned nothing - that with God there is no time, meaning that there is no "process" of "time" to salvation, but only yah or or nah, and that the moment of salvation is but a moment?
     
  20. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Salvation is but a moment .. sure. But it seems your view of the Trinity needs updating. The Father is all Truth = omniscient. So, yeah, the Truth never changes and is true throughout eternity. But since it also includes time, things are true in a certain and logical order.

    Now the Holy Ghost and the Son are part of the "all Truth" that are revealed in "the fulness of time." This is also true of everything God foreknows .. "He will lead you into all truth … and show you things to come." (Jn 16:13)

    What you seem to be saying is that Truth doesn't have to be logical, no?

    skypair
     
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