1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Skyangel Response

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Doppleganger, Nov 13, 2010.

  1. Doppleganger

    Doppleganger New Member

    Likes Received:
    In a Shout Box SkyAngel asked:
    If the Lord hates evil, why does the Lord create evil? Isaiah 45:7 Sep 26 2010 11:16 AM

    From what I know, Its my understanding that if the Jews are right, and God brought Order to Chaos. This maybe the Katabole or Big Bang? In order to bring all things in line with HIm. Order would have to be established. Consisting of both bad, good and neutral elements. Then from the ordered chaos he could remove the evil, that had brought that system into chaos. Thereby removing it without having to destroy some of the good with the bad. Which is alot like the parable of the good and bad tares. Matthew 13.

    God also gives us the free will to chose. So HE allows some to help fulfill his plan, while others fight it, yet the majority just dont care or get it.
    Just like it is today! LOL. Anyways ->
    What are you peoples thoughts on this?
  2. bud02

    bud02 New Member

    Likes Received:
    The evidence IMHO is perhaps God did in a response to sin or in violation to the spoken word of God, He changed and /or removed His creation from His immediate presents.
    That leads into the entire message of the Bible, the restoration of creation.

    After the creation God said it is very good. To me this indicates complete order no sign of chaos. Gen 1:31

    God now establishes a command, notice He speaks it, and I believe when God speaks all of His creation is subject to His Word Isa 55:11 The condition of violation is also established, death. Gen 2:16-17

    I believe that when Adam violated this command the result as spoken was death and death reigned from Adam to Moses as Paul says. Romans 5:14

    But God also spoke a curse on all of His creation, At this point all creation was no longer very good, but God responded justly and in doing so established the path that would lead it the restoration of mans relationship back to God, to over come death. The curse on all of creation. Gen 3:17-19 At this point all creation fell from very good to separation from God. Rom 8:20-21

    Romans 8
    [sup]18[/sup] For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. [sup]19[/sup] For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. [sup]20[/sup] For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; Gen 2:16-17 & Gen 3:17-19 [sup]21[/sup] because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. [sup]22[/sup] For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

    IMO the law that came to Moses is the same, as the law given to Adam, "you shall not eat---" as soon as God spoke the words Thou shall not have any other gods before me, it became a command that all creation is subject to.
    Rom 5:13-14
    Rom 3:20
    Hosea 6:7

    Keeping Gods commands given to Moses paved the way for Jesus to succeed where Israel failed, Dt 30:16
    A condition or exception to the first violation of Adam was established. The condition of the first violation in Adam "death" could now be over come by the keeping of the 10 new commandments. We all still live in fallen creation but death has been swallowed up.
    1 Cor 15:54-55
    Isa 25:8
    Heb 2:15
    Rev 20:14
    Hosea 13:14
  3. Doppleganger

    Doppleganger New Member

    Likes Received:
    Good post Bud!
  4. bud02

    bud02 New Member

    Likes Received:
    Just trying to build on the foundation you already laid. It is a difficult topic, I like the way you approached it.
  5. Selene

    Selene New Member

    Likes Received:
    Hello Doppleganger,

    God does not create evil because only "good" comes from Him. Everything He created is always good as shown in Genesis. Because God hates evil, He would never create it. One needs to look at the entire passage in order to understand what the Bible is saying:

    Isaiah 45:5-8 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that [there is] none beside me. I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]. Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

    The entire passage is speaking about how God is great in that He created all things in the physical heavens and earth. He created the light and darkness. Light and darkness are opposites of each other. Light and darkness are neither good or bad. For example, day and night are opposites of each other. In the next verse, it says that He created "peace" and "evil." The Hebrew word used is "shaolom," which means peace. The opposite of peace in this case would be "calamity." What the Bible is saying is that God created the light and the dark, but he also created peace (tranquility) and calamity (evil). An example of calamity would be earthquakes, lightnings, typhoons, tornados, etc. The peace that one experience would be when there are none of these physical storms. Earthquakes are not evil nor are they considered good. They are only called "evil" by the sacred author who wrote them because in human eyes, an earthquake, tornado, and other natural disasters are viewed as "evil." But they are not a moral evil. This interpretation is in line with the entire passage because the passage speaks about the sun, the skies, the earth, and the heavens and along with these would be storms. So, God created "physical evils" such as earthquakes, tornados, typhoons, tropical storms, etc., but God never created "moral evil" such as muder, stealing, adultery, etc. These storms show God's power and greatness. Moral evil such as murder does not show any greatness at all.

    In Christ,
  6. veteran

    veteran New Member

    Likes Received:
    Very important matter:

    We're told the devil sinneth from the beginning. And that's when the very first sin, and thus evil, had to have begun. Not by Adam and Eve, but by the cherub Satan. God originally created Satan perfect in his ways, and then iniquity was found in him when he rebelled against God in coveting His Throne (Ezek.28; Isaiah 14). That's why "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" is a symbol for Satan. God created him good, but he became evil.

    When Satan first sinned, that also must be the time when God assigned to him the power of death. Satan has already been judged and sentenced to perish per Ezekiel 28 also. Likewise with the angels that rebelled with him (Jude 1). Satan is thus the author of evil, not our Heavenly Father for evil is a product of sin. Assigning evil to God's Hand is like saying He capable of committing sin.

    The idea of death also had to have existed prior to God warning Adam and Eve about eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, that in the day they did eat of it, they would die. That's also how we know the idea of 'death' was before Adam and Eve were created, pointing back to the first sin by Satan.

    That also means, we must move any idea of the corruption of God's creation backwards before Adam and Eve's sin also. It does sound logical that Paul in Romans 8 meant right after Adam and Eve's sin the creation was made subject to bondage and also seeks redemption along with us. But since Satan had the first sin, the placing of the creation in bondage must be moved back to that time also. That's why the subject of a previous earth age before Adam and Eve can be found written in God's Word, for that's the time when Satan first sinned.


    Since Satan rebelled, and the first sin came into existence by him, God since then has used Satan and evil to punish those who are likewise rebellious with Satan. God has given Satan a certain amount of control to work evil. And sometimes, Satan goes too far. Much of this is written in the Book of Isaiah. In Isaiah 10, God uses "the Assyrian" as a type for Satan, and calls him "the rod of Mine anger". That's very important to understand, because God revealed that He will use Satan as His punishing rod upon the wicked.

    And when God does use Satan as a rod upon the rebellious, is God doing evil? No. Even with the idea of calamity or strife which God will bring, it's done through the devil and his workers. All those negative acts originated with Satan's rebellion against God.

    Why is this so important for us Christians to understand? It's because of the devil's own workers behind the pagan idea that good can't exist without evil.

    Don't be fooled, because the idea that good and evil, positive and negative, are natural parts of God's creation hides His ultimate Truth of a future new heavens and new earth where death and the former things will no longer exist. Simply because during this world age the duality of opposites can be found in this present creation, does not automatically mean it will exist in the next world with God's eternity. It's real easy to fall into the trap of thinking the duality of good and evil is a natural order with God and His creation. It is not. And that's specifically why Paul showed in Romans 8 that the creation also mourns together with our spirit inside us, waiting for the manifesting of the sons of God and the redemption of our body.

    In its worse form, the duality of opposites in the nature of today's world can mislead the Christian into accepting the idea that evil must co-exist with good, just as electricity won't flow without two opposite poles. That's the fallacy of applying things of today's creation with God, when God placed this present earth age in a state of corruption.