Smoke Screens?

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H. Richard

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Have Christians, and our Christian churches, taught about a personal relationship with Jesus for salvation or have they put up smoke screens that keeps people from developing a personal relationship with Jesus in their hearts?

When you ask most Christians why they think they are Christians and on their way to heaven they will tell you some, if not all, of the following things,

1.) they try to be good
2.) they say they belong to the ONE AND ONLY TRUE CHURCH organization
3.) they go to church
4.) they pray
5.) they participate in church ceremonies and rituals
6.) They give money to Charities.
7.) they say they believe that Jesus died on the cross and they have tried to be like Him and
do good works to become worthy.

But none of these answers will get you into heaven. The only answer is because they believe Jesus was the Son of God and He died on the cross to pay for ALL their sins. That is what they have faith in and it is the only reason they are going to heaven. -- To add any of the things listed above, 1-7, indicates that person is not a Christian because the person is adding his/here works to gain salvation.

John 4:21-24 (NIV)
21 Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

A person must worship God in, and from, their heart.

Have the physical organized religions taught people to trust in them and their moral social works doctrines instead of in Jesus? Is God really pleased by the pageantry, ceremonies, and rituals of men that "DO NOT REQUIRE A PERSONAL COMMITMENT OF THE HEART? What does the Bible say about a personal relationship with God?

John 5:39-40 (NIV)
39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

What does the Bible say about works? **** Do Christians know that to place their faith (trust) in anyone or anything other than Jesus is SPIRITUAL ADULTERY?

Many Christians "never" say anything about their personal relationship with Jesus or that they trust in His love and promises towards them shown on the cross. They only say what THEY DO as apposed to what God has done. I sometimes wonder if they really know that Jesus is alive and seated at the right hand of God ready to engage in a conversation with them in their hearts? Do Christians really talk (pray) with Him in their hearts, one on one, or is Jesus something afar off that they do not feel really hears them and may not even exist? Do they really know that the Holy Spirit lives in their hearts?

Jesus said,

Matt 7:21-23 . . (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

John 10:14
14 "I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
(NKJ)

John 10:26-28
26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
(NKJ)

He can only know you if you have a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with Him in your heart.
 
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JohnPaul

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I hope to make it into Heaven, I try to do good and be good.

I stopped going to church, last time I went to church was my childhood Roman Catholic Church, I feel closer to Jesus at home.
 

GodsGrace

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I hope to make it into Heaven, I try to do good and be good.

I stopped going to church, last time I went to church was my childhood Roman Catholic Church, I feel closer to Jesus at home.
Hi JohnPaul
Welcome to the forum.

It's good to try to be good and to do good.
The N.T. tells us this is what God wants.
As long as you have God in your heart, the doing good is great.
 

JohnPaul

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Hi JohnPaul
Welcome to the forum.

It's good to try to be good and to do good.
The N.T. tells us this is what God wants.
As long as you have God in your heart, the doing good is great.

GodsGrace, I try but sometimes I slip, sometimes I lose my temper and swear, I ask for the Lords forgiveness when I do.

I try to help the needy by donating or give money to the people who live on the streets when they ask me for a handout.

Thank you for the welcome.
 

GodsGrace

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GodsGrace, I try but sometimes I slip, sometimes I lose my temper and swear, I ask for the Lords forgiveness when I do.

I try to help the needy by donating or give money to the people who live on the streets when they ask me for a handout.

Thank you for the welcome.
We all slip.
1 John 1 addresses this.
He said to do what you do.

Looking forward to your posts.
 
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justbyfaith

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Hi @JohnPaul,

welcome to the forums from me also.

3Jo 1:11, Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

If we are truly born again of the Holy Spirit, we will do good.

However, our behaviour/works is not the basis for our salvation (see Ephesians 2:9 and context; also Romans 11:5-6, Titus 3:4-7, and Romans 4:1-8).

The basis for our salvation is spoken of, I think, most clearly, in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
 

bbyrd009

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smoke screens that keeps people from developing a personal relationship with Jesus in their hearts?
oh i dunno, imo congregations do a great job of presenting Jesus as Nehushtan? "Meet John Doe" i think, will bring ones own anointing whenever they are ready?
The only answer is
To add any of the things listed above, 1-7, indicates that
because the person is
havent bothered with that Naive thingy yet huh HR? ok, have a nice day ok bro
Many Christians "never" say anything about their personal relationship with Jesus
Many ppl cannot admit what a Jesus Cult might be either though right
He can only know you if you have a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with Him in your heart.
Ok, careful, He knows more than Santa Claus i guess right, see a play on the word "know" is being used there?
 

bbyrd009

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I hope to make it into Heaven, I try to do good and be good.

I stopped going to church, last time I went to church was my childhood Roman Catholic Church, I feel closer to Jesus at home.
We should maybe get Frank back here to um illuminate ships in a harbor for us once again maybe
 
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bbyrd009

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We all slip.
1 John 1 addresses this.
He said to do what you do.

Looking forward to your posts.
Hi @JohnPaul,

welcome to the forums from me also.

3Jo 1:11, Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

If we are truly born again of the Holy Spirit, we will do good.

However, our behaviour/works is not the basis for our salvation (see Ephesians 2:9 and context; also Romans 11:5-6, Titus 3:4-7, and Romans 4:1-8).

The basis for our salvation is spoken of, I think, most clearly, in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
um, i didn't get the impression that JP was ezackly a babe in Christ? Might be wrong though
 
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GodsGrace

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um, i didn't get the impression that JP was ezackly a babe in Christ? Might be wrong though
I thought the same...
I think it's time we started to encourage each other.
If someone KNOWS GOD and does good deeds,,,,it seems they don't need scripture.
However, the verse posted was correct and it never hurts to post scripture.
 
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bbyrd009

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I thought the same...
I think it's time we started to encourage each other.
If someone KNOWS GOD and does good deeds,,,,it seems they don't need scripture.
However, the verse posted was correct and it never hurts to post scripture.
ha ok then
If someone KNOWS GOD and does good deeds,,,,it seems they don't need scripture.
Ha!
Well imo anyone knows that and does those needs Scripture worst of all lol, but hey, here's to "good" deeds :)
 
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H. Richard

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I hope to make it into Heaven, I try to do good and be good.

I stopped going to church, last time I went to church was my childhood Roman Catholic Church, I feel closer to Jesus at home.

If the reason you think you will go to Heaven is because you try to do good then you have placed your faith in what you do and not in the work of God (Jesus) on the cross. See Galatians.
 

H. Richard

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Hi JohnPaul
Welcome to the forum.

It's good to try to be good and to do good.
The N.T. tells us this is what God wants.
As long as you have God in your heart, the doing good is great.


In my opinion, God wants us to trust in what His Son did on the cross. That is the message Jesus gave to Paul.
 
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H. Richard

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Have you read and applied John chapter 3 to yourself? That is critical.

John 3:16 is to the Jews who must believe that Jesus was their promised Messiah and King.

It was limited to the Jews who must believe Jesus as their Messiah and King.

Today we are to believe in the work of Jesus on the cross where He paid for all the sins of the world.

Is there a difference?? Absolutely.
 
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H. Richard

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That is ABSOLUTE AND UNADULTERATED NONSENSE.

Don't blow a gasket. If a person reads the 4 gospels and the first 7 chapters of Acts it clearly shows that what they were doing was to try and get the Jews (the nation of Israel) to accept Jesus as their Messiah and King. There is nothing in their writing about Jesus death paying for the sins of the whole world. That was only revealed to Paul in his gospel of God's grace as part of the Mystery.

According to Peter the Jews should repent and be sorry for crucifying Jesus. Paul, on the other hand says we should glory in Jesus' work on the cross. That is a very big difference.
 

GodsGrace

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ha ok then

Ha!
Well imo anyone knows that and does those needs Scripture worst of all lol, but hey, here's to "good" deeds :)
Oops.
I reread my post to you.
I DID NOT mean that we don't need scripture!
WE DO.
I meant that if a person is already saved they don't need salvific type scripture.
:oops:
 
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GodsGrace

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In my opinion, God wants us to trust in what His Son did on the cross. That is the message Jesus gave to Paul.
I'm not going to argue that....it's true.
But different folk understand it in different ways...
we've been through this before.
God also wants us to do our part and help out right here on earth.
And, yes, Paul did write Christian theology after Jesus' death to make some sense of it...but I trust what Jesus said the most.

But they're both right.
 
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