So, you’ve rejected Jesus. Why?

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Matthias

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So, you’ve rejected Jesus. I’d like to know why. What caused you to make that decision.
 

Eliyahu613

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Bs"d

He didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies, and his claim that he was God leads the millions into idolatry, because worshiping a human being is idol worship.
 

Matthias

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Bs"d

He didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies…

He fulfilled some of the messianic prophecies and will fulfill the remainder when he returns.

… and his claim that he was God leads the millions into idolatry, because worshiping a human being is idol worship.

He didn’t claim that he was God. He claimed that he is the messiah, the son of God, whom his God promised to raise up.
 
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Eliyahu613

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He fulfilled some of the messianic prophecies and will fulfill the remainder when he returns.



He didn’t claim that he was God. He claimed that he is the messiah, the son of God, whom his God promised to raise up.
Bs"d

Well, 99% of all the Christians believe he is God, and worship him.

And the first thing God says when He gives the law on Mount Sinai is:

"And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME
."

Ex 20:1-2

So with that first commandment the Christians already go wrong.

Everybody can claim he is the messiah, but fulfilling the messianic prophecies that's where all of them fail, also the Christian messiah.

So that is a very good reason to reject him.
 

Matthias

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Bs"d

Well, 99% of all the Christians believe he is God, and worship him.

And the first thing God says when He gives the law on Mount Sinai is:

"And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME
."

Ex 20:1-2

So with that first commandment the Christians already go wrong.

Forget the 99%. It’s not about them. It’s about Jesus of Nazareth, himself a Jew. He doesn’t believe what they believe. His God (and our God) is the one God of Israel - the Father alone.

Everybody can claim he is the messiah, but fulfilling the messianic prophecies that's where all of them fail, also the Christian messiah.

So that is a very good reason to reject him.

Does he fulfill any of the messianic prophecies?
 

Eliyahu613

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Forget the 99%. It’s not about them. It’s about Jesus of Nazareth, himself a Jew. He doesn’t believe what they believe. His God (and our God) is the one God of Israel - the Father alone.



Does he fulfill any of the messianic prophecies?
Bs"d

No. The messianic prophecies are all unfulfilled.
 

Matthias

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Bs"d

No. The messianic prophecies are all unfulfilled.

Thank you. This helps me understand why you’ve rejected Jesus of Nazareth.

I believe some of them are, and that all of them will be, by the Jew from Nazareth.

Is there a standard Jewish list of the messianic prophecies that you could share with readers in this thread?
 

Eliyahu613

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Thank you. This helps me understand why you’ve rejected Jesus of Nazareth.

I believe some of them are, and that all of them will be, by the Jew from Nazareth.

Is there a standard Jewish list of the messianic prophecies that you could share with readers in this thread?

Bs"d

In chapter 3 here: Notestament are some messianic prophecies which are not fulfilled.
 

Rita

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Are there any of the moderators?
I can't write to the topic.
Yours faithfully.
I believe you have posted to the thread , so not too sure why you are conveying you can’t post . Is it another thread you are trying to post to ?
 

Matthias

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Bs"d

In chapter 3 here: Notestament are some messianic prophecies which are not fulfilled.

Thank you.

I’m sure you’re familiar with Nehemiah 9:27.

“… Yet in the time of their trouble, when they cried out to you, you heard from heaven, and in keeping with your great compassion, you gave them saviors to save them from the power of their adversaries.” (CJB)

Has Y-H-W-H not always sent saviors to save his people in times of trouble? Will the messiah himself not be one of them? In fact, the greatest of them?
 

Eliyahu613

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Thank you.

I’m sure you’re familiar with Nehemiah 9:27.

“… Yet in the time of their trouble, when they cried out to you, you heard from heaven, and in keeping with your great compassion, you gave them saviors to save them from the power of their adversaries.” (CJB)

Has Y-H-W-H not always sent saviors to save his people in times of trouble? Will the messiah himself not be one of them? In fact, the greatest of them?
Bs"d

Men are just instruments in the hand of God.

God is the real Savior:

My Savior is Y-H-W-H:

Isaiah 43: 3: "For I am Y-H-W-H thy God, the Holy one of Israel, thy saviour."

Isaiah 43:10-11: "Before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me, even I, I am Y-H-W-H, and beside Me there is no saviour."

Isaiah 45:21-22: "... I Y-H-W-H, and there is no God else beside Me, a just God and a saviour, there is no saviour beside Me. Look unto Me and be you saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God and there is none else."

Hosea 13: 4: "Yet I am Y-H-W-H thy God, and thou shall know no God but Me, for there is no saviour beside Me."
 

Matthias

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Bs"d

Men are just instruments in the hand of God.

God is the real Savior:

My Savior is Y-H-W-H:

Isaiah 43: 3: "For I am Y-H-W-H thy God, the Holy one of Israel, thy saviour."

Isaiah 43:10-11: "Before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me, even I, I am Y-H-W-H, and beside Me there is no saviour."

Isaiah 45:21-22: "... I Y-H-W-H, and there is no God else beside Me, a just God and a saviour, there is no saviour beside Me. Look unto Me and be you saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God and there is none else."

Hosea 13: 4: "Yet I am Y-H-W-H thy God, and thou shall know no God but Me, for there is no saviour beside Me."

Nehemiah stills calls those men saviours. You aren’t expecting the messiah to be a saviour when he comes? The messiah will not be an instrument in the hand of his God?
 

M3n0r4h

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So, you’ve rejected Jesus. I’d like to know why. What caused you to make that decision.
contrary to their prideful belief, it's not their decision to make.

it's God's decision.

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him ..."

John 6:44
 

Matthias

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contrary to their prideful belief, it's not their decision to make.

it's God's decision.

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him ..."

John 6:44

God wants all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3).

For those who won’t be, it’s their fault, not God’s.
 

M3n0r4h

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God wants all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3).

For those who won’t be, it’s their fault, not God’s.
clearly God doesn't want these men to be saved:

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.


Matthew 13:10-11

some people are inherently doomed per God and scripture.

the Wheat and tares passage is not a parable. Jesus explains it as a fact.

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

Matthew 13:38
 
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Matthias

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clearly God doesn't want these men to be saved:

Matthew 13:10-11

some people are inherently doomed per God and scripture.

the Wheat and tares doctrine is not a parable. Jesus explains it as a fact.

Matthew 13:38

Why would Paul, an apostle, say that God does if God clearly doesn’t?
 

M3n0r4h

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Why would Paul, an apostle, say that God does if God clearly doesn’t?
because you're building doctrine upon minimal verses of scripture when the majority of scripture contradicts that doctrine.

therein lies the problem.
 

Matthias

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because you're building doctrine upon minimal verses of scripture when the majority of scripture contradicts that doctrine.

therein lies the problem.

I’ve given your criticism some thought this evening. Thank you for causing me to reconsider my position.

The problem isn’t that which you’ve suggested. The problem seems to be that your antisemitism has colored how you read, interpret and understand scripture.
 

I.O.U

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So, you’ve rejected Jesus. I’d like to know why. What caused you to make that decision.
I didn't really reject Jesus, like he was actually there in a real enough sense to reject. I didn't know what I was actually walking away from at the time, but I knew that the whole Christian thing made me feel terrible all the time. I'll leave it there for the moment.