Some Advice...

[Lux Veritatis]

And I mean this in the most respectful way— but if you want to have conversations with atheists and agnostics, you need more sources than just the Bible to back up your belief. I understand you believe the Bible to be the word of God. However, others don't necessarily believe that. And because of this, providing Biblical passages as "proof" of God is not a good way to prove anything since they do not believe the Bible to be anything more than stories.

 

[Selene]

And I mean this in the most respectful way— but if you want to have conversations with atheists and agnostics, you need more sources than just the Bible to back up your belief. I understand you believe the Bible to be the word of God. However, others don't necessarily believe that. And because of this, providing Biblical passages as "proof" of God is not a good way to prove anything since they do not believe the Bible to be anything more than stories.

In the same way, trying to tell us that everything was created out of nothing is unscientific and goes against the logic of science.

 

[Lux Veritatis]

In the same way, trying to tell us that everything was created out of nothing is unscientific and goes against the logic of science.

However, Christians are only one step "ahead" placing the cause of creation of nothing out of God. Past that, we're in the same boat. But the fact of the matter is, neither of us can provide undeniable facts that prove our side.

 

[Selene]

However, Christians are only one step "ahead" placing the cause of creation of nothing out of God. Past that, we're in the same boat. But the fact of the matter is, neither of us can provide undeniable facts that prove our side.

No, we are not in the same boat. Christians already know that God created everything, so it stops there. You, on the other hand, are still trying to figure out that problem.

 

[Lux Veritatis]

No, we are not in the same boat. Christians already know that God created everything, so it stops there. You, on the other hand, are still trying to figure out that problem.

That begs the question of what it means to "know" something. You equate belief and knowledge, in this case. I disagree that you can know God exists through natural reason. You may assert divine intervention, but I am under no obligation to believe that to be true.

 

[Selene]

That begs the question of what it means to "know" something. You equate belief and knowledge, in this case. I disagree that you can know God exists through natural reason. You may assert divine intervention, but I am under no obligation to believe that to be true.

And neither am I under any obligation to believe your flawed human reasoning that something was created out of nothing, which is unscientific and goes against the logic of true science.

 

[Lux Veritatis]

And neither am I under any obligation to believe your flawed human reasoning that something was created out of nothing, which is unscientific and goes against the logic of true science.

Precisely. Flawed human reasoning. How do you dare to claim to know anything about God if you are incapable of even understanding his glory? He is infinitely above you. Beyond you. And yet you claim to know what he wants for human kind? The Bible. Sure. Inspired by God. Great. But God created you to be without knowledge. He wanted you in the dark. SATAN gave you the power of knowledge. Don't lecture me on human reasoning because it is a gift of the devil.

 

[Selene]

Precisely. Flawed human reasoning. How do you dare to claim to know anything about God if you are incapable of even understanding his glory? He is infinitely above you. Beyond you. And yet you claim to know what he wants for human kind? The Bible. Sure. Inspired by God. Great. But God created you to be without knowledge. He wanted you in the dark. SATAN gave you the power of knowledge. Don't lecture me on human reasoning because it is a gift of the devil.

It is not my own flawed human reasoning that I have come to know God. It is through faith that I know Him, and with Him all things are possible. Faith is a gift from God and comes only from God.

CCC 159 Faith and science: "Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth." "Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are."

Yes, it was Satan who gave man the power of human knowledge, and look at what this power of human knowledge has done..........Man thinks that something can be created from nothing, which is unscientific and goes against the logic of true science.

 

[Lux Veritatis]

It is not my own flawed human reasoning that I have come to know God. It is through faith that I know Him, and with Him all things are possible. Faith is a gift from God and comes only from God.

CCC 159 Faith and science: "Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth." "Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are."

Yes, it was Satan who gave man the power of human knowledge, and look at what this power of human knowledge has done..........Man thinks that something can be created from nothing, which is unscientific and goes against the logic of true science.

Pray tell, what is the "logic of true science?"

 

[Selene]

Pray tell, what is the "logic of true science?"

True science says that an egg cannot just cause itself to be an egg. There must be a cause outside the egg. In this case, it would be the hen. And the hen cannot just cause itself to be a hen. There must be a cause outside the hen. Your flawed human logic says that the egg came into being from nothing. Your philosophy comes down to "nothing" because that is all you have, which is unscientific.

 

[Lux Veritatis]

True science says that an egg cannot just cause itself to be an egg. There must be a cause outside the egg. In this case, it would be the hen. And the hen cannot just cause itself to be a hen. There must be a cause outside the hen. Your flawed human logic says that the egg came into being from nothing. Your philosophy comes down to "nothing" because that is all you have, which is unscientific.

You'll be surprised to find out that just because we don't know the cause doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You are satisfied with the answer "God did it," but science isn't. Just because we don't know doesn't mean it happens by magic.

Neither of us can be present at the moment of "creation" so it is impossible to know how it happened. I, however, am not satisfied saying an invisible being did it. There's absolutely no evidence for that.

 

[Selene]

You'll be surprised to find out that just because we don't know the cause doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You are satisfied with the answer "God did it," but science isn't. Just because we don't know doesn't mean it happens by magic.

Neither of us can be present at the moment of "creation" so it is impossible to know how it happened. I, however, am not satisfied saying an invisible being did it. There's absolutely no evidence for that.

To say that something is created from nothing is already unscientific. You say....."just because we don't know the cause doesn't mean it doesn't exist??" So, you believe something exist despite the fact that you can't see it, and you seem so sure that this "something" exist despite that you can't see it.

Christians already know through faith what that "something" is. We also understand that there are some things in life that cannot be explained by science.

 

[Lux Veritatis]

To say that something is created from nothing is already unscientific. You say....."just because we don't know the cause doesn't mean it doesn't exist??" So, you believe something exist despite the fact that you can't see it, and you seem so sure that this "something" exist despite that you can't see it. And what evidence do you have to even support this?

I'm not about to be lectured on what is scientific by someone who believes in an invisible and unprovable entity that has magical powers. What qualifications do you have to tell me what is and is not science?

 

[Selene]

I'm not about to be lectured on what is scientific by someone who believes in an invisible and unprovable entity that has magical powers. What qualifications do you have to tell me what is and is not science?

And naturally, this is coming from someone who already admitted that he believes "something" exists despite that it can't be see. I have a degree in the social sciences. I am also the Department Chairperson for Social Science, and I have done some research studies, data collecting, and analysis of data.

 

[Lux Veritatis]

And naturally, this is coming from someone who already admitted that he believes "something" exists despite that it can't be see. I have a degree in the social sciences. I am also the Department Chairperson for Social Science, and I have done some research studies, data collecting, and analysis of data.

Well I have a degree in biological sciences. Sorry, outranks your social sciences when it comes to the stuff the universe is made of. And for the record, I never said I believed in anything. You went ahead and put words in my mouth and built a strawman to attack.

 

[Selene]

Well I have a degree in biological sciences. Sorry, outranks your social sciences when it comes to the stuff the universe is made of. And for the record, I never said I believed in anything. You went ahead and put words in my mouth and built a strawman to attack.

Biology is the study of plant and animal life. If you wanted to study the universe, you would have taken up astronomy. My field includes anthropolgy and archaeology (which includes the study of human origins) as well as geography (the study of the earth).

No, you never said what you believed in. You stated the following:

You'll be surprised to find out that just because we don't know the cause doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Well, a Christian can easily tell you that that God is the cause of creation, and we don't need to prove it to you because faith is above human reason. There are some things in life that even science cannot prove, and that is the truth.

 

[Lux Veritatis]

Biology is the study of plant and animal life. If you wanted to study the universe, you would have taken up astronomy. My field includes anthropolgy and archaeology (which includes the study of human origins) as well as geography (the study of the earth).

No, you never said what you believed in. You stated the following:




Well, a Christian can easily tell you that that God is the cause of creation, and we don't need to prove it to you because faith is above human reason. There are some things in life that even science cannot prove, and that is the truth.

Biology is the study of all living things. It is within the realm of biology to study the origins of human life.

For the record, you stated that faith, something that by definition is something without proof, is above reason, that which seeks proof and evidence. That's the difference between you and I. I follow logic, you follow… whatever is told of you.

 

[Selene]

Biology is the study of all living things. It is within the realm of biology to study the origins of human life.

For the record, you stated that faith, something that by definition is something without proof, is above reason, that which seeks proof and evidence. That's the difference between you and I. I follow logic, you follow… whatever is told of you.

A biologists mainly studies plants and animals that exist today. Anthropologists study the origins of humans. There is nothing logical about something being created from nothing.

I follow the truth. As I said, in life there are some things which science cannot explain......that is the truth.

 

[Lux Veritatis]

A biologists mainly studies plants and animals that exist today. Anthropologists study the origins of humans. There is nothing logical about something being created from nothing.

I follow the truth. As I said, in life there are some things which science cannot explain......that is the truth.

Biologists mainly study anything that is living, not just plants or animals. And I agree, there are some things in life that science can't explain… yet.