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Featured Some good information for Dave

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Jane_Doe22, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    This thread is a personal challenge for @Dave L , to learn some more information. It is response to this post from another thread--
    Ok Dave, I'm going to hit up each of your points fast style, then start with one more in depth, and we can move from there. For the sake of flow I'm going to rearrange the points into a different order.
     
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  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    You give your position using scripture. And I'll answer your position using scripture. Scripture only.....
     
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  3. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    This is not accurate. Both LDS Christians and Athanasian Christians both believe:

    The Father is 100% divine.
    The Son of God, Jesus Christ is 100% divine.
    The Holy Spirit is 100% divine.
    The Father, Son, and Spirit are all without beginning nor end.
    The Father is not the Son, nor vice verse. Neither of them are the Spirit. They are three different persons.
    The Father, Son, and Spirit together are 1 God.

    The difference comes in:
    LDS Christians believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 1 God through unity.
    Athanasian Christians believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 1 God through consubstantiation.




    These points are just flat out false. If you want me to go into how these rumors came to be and spread, I can.

    (to be continued...)
     
  4. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    But you deny the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one spiritual essence. So you have three God's.
     
  5. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    Define "spiritual essence" using just scripture.
     
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”” (John 4:24) (HCSB)
     
  7. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    LDS Christians 100% agree with God's words here.

    LDS Christians do not agree with the man-made Athanasian Creed.
     
  8. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Then you don't agree with scripture. God is One.
     
  9. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    Again, LDS Christian 100% agree that God is ONE.
    Just not how the Athanasian Creed states. And no, the Athanasian Creed is not scripture.
     
  10. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    But God is one Spirit in three persons. You say each of the persons is a God separate from the others.
     
  11. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    God is three persons. One God, three persons. For example, during Christ's baptism, each person does a specific thing.
    Again, these points are agreed upon with Athanasian and LDS Christians.
    No one here is a modalist.
     
  12. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Possibly up to a point, but you worship a different god than Christianity.
     
  13. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    If you wish to defined "Christianity" as a worshiper of the man-made Athanasian Creed, you can say that.

    But I define Christianity by God's words in scripture. I find the man-made document to be flawed, but it's not enough for me to say an Athanasian Christian has totally abandoned God. Not remotely! A flawed understanding is just that: a flawed understanding. And we are not saved by passing a theology knowledge test, but by a change of heart and devotion.
     
  14. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

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    Just curious, have you never heard of the Mormon belief in blood atonement, where they actually murder someone by shedding their blood who they believe has committed a vile sin in order to save them?
     
  15. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    Cliff-notes-stype recap on the blood atonement: an idea tossed around in the 1800's but never remotely as canonized doctrine and extremely misunderstood/controversial even at the time. It was dismissed even by it's once biggest proponents in the late 1800's. Mid 1900's it was hard-line dismissed as being completely false.

    Relevance to nowadays: none. Literally the only place this comes up in the last half century+ is by low-quality "anti-cultists" that for some reason can't be bothered to discuss about actual beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
     
  16. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

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  17. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I have heard that Mormonism's definition as a cult is based on the fact that they change the information as you go deeper in, primarily by redefining words.

    So, as an initiate Mormon you might be allowed to believe everything that is basically Christian. But as you go deeper in, the understanding changes so that your beliefs become anything but Christian.

    The image of doctrine that they portray to the outside world is very different than what most of them actually believe when they get immersed deeper in.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  18. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, this video is an great example of low-quality "anti-cultists" that for some reason can't be bothered to discuss about actual beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Literally the entire video is completely off base.

    I don't care if someone disagrees with my beliefs- that's totally their right, and I disagree with many other people's beliefs. But it is silly to try to base an argument off of things which aren't even believed.
     
  19. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    It is true that @Jane_Doe22 has me on ignore and therefore is completely deaf to anything that I might say about Mormonism on her thread here.

    Therefore I can pretty much know that she will not give any answer to the point that I made in post #17 above.

    Also her last post is clearly in ignorance of what I said in post #17 (Some good information for Dave)
     
  20. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Mormon doctrine teaches that there are many gods and that God the Father is god only of this world. The gods were once humans who achieved a glorified status, which is taught in the couplet “As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.” The goal of Mormonism is ultimately to become a god of one’s own world. In heaven, a Heavenly Father and Mother produce spirit children who await bodies so they can become human and begin the process (this is the main reason Mormons typically have large families).
    Jesus, the first of God the Father’s spiritual children, became a human through physical relationship between God the Father and a human mother. His death purchased resurrection for all people, who will face a judgment and spend eternity in one of four places. The celestial kingdom is for those who accept Mormon doctrine. The terrestrial kingdom is for good people who reject Mormon teaching on earth but later accept it in the spirit world. The telestial kingdom is for those who twice reject Mormon doctrine. The outer darkness is for Satan, his angels, and former Mormons who left the Church.


    Morgan, G. R. (2012). Understanding World Religions in 15 Minutes a Day (pp. 156–157). Minneapolis, MN: Bethany House Publishers.
     
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