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Some Interesting things that God has stated.

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by Mickiel, Apr 24, 2015.

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  1. Mickiel

    Mickiel New Member

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    You know its one thing for us believers to say something " About God", or for a biblical writer to express something about God, or even for Jesus himself to relate to us things about God; but it kind of interest me when I read some of the things that God himself has said. After all, what else could trump that or over rule that, or be more important that his own words?

    I don't know a lot about God, and I don't mean this thread to give that impression; I am more so impressed by the things he has said. Such as in Isaiah 45:22-25, where God actually makes a Holy Vow to himself, which I cannot find any where else in scripture him doing something like that. He speaks, vs 22 " Look unto me and be saved, ALL the ends of the Earth. For I am God and there is none else!" Interesting here to me, that it certainly is God talking, and he is speaking to " Everyone on Earth", not just believers, or any particular religion. Which is different. More inclusive than how we believers may speak to the earth.

    23, " I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth, and shall not return to me void, that unto me Every knee Shall bow, and Every Tongue Shall confess to me!" Again VERY impressive and different from how believers talk about humanity; again God is being " All inclusive", he is promising, vowing that EVERYONE will bow to him and confess to him! And he's swearing that this shall happen, nothing can stop it, it will be fulfilled just as he has promised it will!

    Stunning! Simply stunning in my view, the Salvation implications and hope this vow could entail. Now I am sure those who like to limit salvation to humanity, will see some limitations in this Righteous Vow from God; I mean we can only see what we see, can only be conscious of, those things we are conscious of. But its something about God, that I have always thought was " Greater than we know!" And I am thinking, is his Grace and Love greater than we can comprehend? Is his Mercy and Forgiveness even MORE than we think? Did Jesus death accomplish FAR more than our religious minds can ever know! I don't know?

    But I am finding out this one fact; that are literally hundreds of scriptures like this one, which seem to be MORE than I have ever known! And it may be more to God's Salvation than we really know?
     
  2. JPPT1974

    JPPT1974 Flowers of May Encounter Team

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    Read God's Word in the Bible. It is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. As He is the same as well. As the Bible like God never changes. As Salvation is only through God through Jesus Christ. My friend as will be praying for you!
     
  3. Mickiel

    Mickiel New Member

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    Thank you so very much for that.

    I am reading God's word, and I find the things that God himself has said, is quite different than what many believers in him are saying; which is strangely interesting. In yet another biblical example of what God has said, notice Job 23:13; it states this, " For God is of one mind and who can turn him? What his soul " Desires" , that he " Does." This states that whatever God desires to do, well that he will do. Just like in Isaiah where it states that his will cannot return to him void, or unfulfilled, Job ask " Who can turn him?" What God desires, ( or wants), he gets it! Strange that I don't see a lot of believers teaching that. As if all things are " Not" possible with God.

    So, what does God desire? Again scripture, again bible, again God speaking; 1 Tim. 2:3-4, " For this is Good and Acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who DESIRES that ALL men be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." Plain and simple; God gets what he desires, and he desires that All humans be saved, the exact same all inclusive will of God seen in Isaiah 45. Stunning; simply stunning! God gets what he desires and nobody can turn him from it, especially his own worshippers who do not desire what he desires. Lovingly and incredibly God himself wants the salvation of all, he gets what he wants; and that kind of Salvation is both GOOD and ACCEPTABLE to him, so WHY is it unacceptable and even blasphemus to some believers? I mean that is incredible good news, its Gods expressed will and desire, its right there in everyone's bible,

    what, in the world of influence and power, is blinding people from seeing what God has said?
     
  4. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    Mickiel,

    This is what blinds people, their will which is contrary to the will of God.

    The Jews of Jesus day thought to bring him into power by force and lead a revolution to drive out the Romans. But they were disappointed.

    It is the same with universalism today, people want everyone to be saved despite their persistence in doing evil and refusal to accept the grace of God. Jesus desires that all be saved, but the bible still speaks of those who are perishing. His will is not always done on earth, why would he instruct us to pray for his will to be done on earth if his will is always done? It is God's promises that are fulfilled, and his every word is a promise.

    Numbers 23:19 "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?"
     
  5. Mickiel

    Mickiel New Member

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    As the Jews of the day sought selfish beliefs, the Christians of the day do the same , they seek a salvation that does not include everyone, just a select few. The bible speaks of perishing and Christians magnify that, but that same bible; same bible Forrest, states that God says he is not willing that ANY would perish , but ALL come to repentance; meaning he HAS NOT WILLED ANY human to perish. No matter how Christian interpretation may teach that many will perish, no matter how many biblical writers claimed that many will perish, God is NOT willing for ANY to perish!

    And I go with the will of God, the desire of God, over what biblical writers and Christians are saying.
     
  6. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    Christians don't want anyone to perish either, that is why Jesus gave his followers the Great commission: Matthew 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"

    There is the parable of the bridegroom. Matthew 25:1-13. The five unwise virgins were not taken as brides. So Jesus too will not accept everyone into communion with him, only those who repent in this life.

    When you read the bible it can be easy to see what you want to see, I recommend trying to set aside your presuppositions or you may miss some truth that the Lord is trying to convey.
     
  7. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    My first question will be, how long have you been saved?
    Second, how long have you studied the Bible?

    Paul states ALL scripture is breathed of God, which means ALL scripture is His own words. It's all important not just the words attributed to Him.
    We ALL don't know a lot about God, but that knowledge comes from His Word as in the ENTIRE Bible.
    That Bible teaches God may desire that all men be saved, but not all men will be saved. It teaches that Jesus died for ALL sin, but not all men will accept His gift of redemption. It teaches that those who are NOT born again will be punished for eternity in their spirit/soul. Those are a few of the things I am more than confident in after only 44 years of reading His words.
     
  8. Mickiel

    Mickiel New Member

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    I myself have studied the bible only 52 years. And I am literally shocked at the things I am finding that God has said, that totally differ from what believers are saying. In another example, God himself, in 28 different passages of Scripture states repeatedly that he alone is God and there is no other God but him, ( Isaiah 44:6, 45:5, 46:9 ), and I can list the other 25 if anyone request to see them. Yet believers are teaching that there are three gods; a Trinity, and the word Trinity is not even in the bible? I tell you its stunning! Simply incredible indifference! In fact, in my studies, Jesus sits at the right hand of God; always! So in Isaiah 44:6, God states that he is the first and the last, he is the Lord, he alone is God, then he states that beside him there is no other, and Jesus was sitting beside him when he said that.

    Amazing! Right there God himself speaks a clear thing, and religion is speaking something totally different!

    And I think that is so interesting.
     
  9. DogLady19

    DogLady19 New Member

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    When it comes to studying the Word of God, we have to be careful not to limit it to our human understanding...

    Bible study requires keeping His Word in context, understanding the actual meaning of the words used and discovering what God's words mean to us as humans, in our everyday lives.

    These elements of Bible study are called Exegesis, Eisegesis, and Hermeneutics.
    http://www.spirithome.com/bible_exegesis.html

    One cannot grasp the full meaning of God's Word without a proper study of them. The biggest mistakes I see some Christians make is taking things out of context and applying a modern meaning to a word used in the Bible.

    For instance, "Every kneee shall bow" is a prophecy referring to God's Kingdom on the New Earth... after the time of Salvation has passed. God is saying that eventually, everyone's eyes will be open and will know without a doubt that He is God. The revelation of this will force everyone to their knees, and they will have to admit that He is God.

    "Look unto me and be saved, ALL the ends of the Earth." is a call to salvation for every human on earth, not a promise that all will be saved.

    "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." -Matthew 7:13-14

    God's desire is for all of us to be saved, but the Bible is quite clear that not all will be saved. He said He would be patient with us, but He does not promise His patience will not run out.

    "The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil," -Proverbs 16:4

    Other scriptures you may want to look at:
    Matthew 25:37-42
    John 14:6
    Revelation 2:17

    The Trinity is not "3 gods".. It is 3 parts of ONE God. Like humans have a body, mind and spirit, so does God in whose image and likeness we are made (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). And the Bible has several references to God as a triune being. The first is Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 11:7 where He refers to Himself as "us"...
     
  10. Mickiel

    Mickiel New Member

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    I like to exegesis scripture, and I think the scripture states to " Hope All Things", and I realize I may not be popular at this site if I hope for the salvation of all of humanity, because I have found, and shown, that God himself does. But I understand how some believers think that is evil, they must see humans being lost and condemned in their view of God. I no longer see that in my view of God or the bible.

    And that difference is interesting, because we should search the scriptures for life, yet many search it for condemnation; strangely, both can be found in there.

    I am attracted to Romans 5:18, " Therefore by the offence of one, ( Adam), judgment came upon ALL men to condemnation, ( this part is VERY easy for the average believer to see and accept; we can see condemnation), EVEN SO, ( the verse is not finished with this most unusual comparison), by the Righteousness of the one FREE GIFT, ( meaning Jesus sacrifice), came upon ALL MEN justification of life!." Again a stunning verse that is all inclusive and part of the greatest gospel I have ever seen! Here, because of one man, we ALL were condemned, ( which is totally unfair , that we not even born yet were condemned because of Adam), and many believers can accept that unfairness in their belief; BUT, EVEN SO, meaning there is another side to this, because of Jesus, now ALL humans are justified to receive eternal life free! Now I realize many righteous believers will view this great Mercy and Forgiveness as unfair, and CANNOT accept this scripture as truth. Oh they easily accept and understand that ALL were condemned, because condemnation holds an important place in their belief, but the justification for everyone to live with God freely, that is FAR too much Grace and Goodness to even fit in their belief! Which I think is interesting, this tendency we have to crave condemnation, as if judgment is greater than Mercy.

    In Luke 3:6, " ALL flesh shall SEE the Salvation of God." Again, inclusive; yet so very strange that many believers actually think that God will show Salvation to every human, only to turn around and deny many of them it. You know, WHY show me something like that, only not to give it to me; that sounds SOOO human, and I am so glad that God is not human, and he is not as merciless and condemning as his followers.
     
  11. DogLady19

    DogLady19 New Member

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    So, basically, you are saying that since God gave the gift of salvation to everyone, I can be an unrepentant person and still make it to Heaven? I can take pleasure in maligning His name, mocking the Bible, taking advantage of people, never apologizing for anything, and I will still spend eternity in front of the throne of Jesus??? What if I am that kind of despicable person and have no desire to spend eternity in Heaven? Will I be forced to accept His gift anyway? I have no choice in the matter???
     
  12. Mickiel

    Mickiel New Member

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    The Apostle Paul was unrepentant , Moses never repented for murder, how many biblical people must I bring up to show you that salvation is not based on repentance, but forgiveness and Jesus death? You speak as if God will not use force, the book of Revelations is FULL of the FORCE that God will use and unleash on humanity. What do you think the seven seals are? What makes you even dare think that a despicable sinner does not have a place in the Kingdom of God? The word states that ALL have sinned; oh is your sin different than those who you argue for their damnation? Explain to me why you are more worthy than those you exclude from heaven? What makes you better than Atheist? Explain to me who NEEDS God more? You or an Atheist? Explain to me why you think righteous believers hold a monopoly on heaven?

    I thank God through Jesus Christ, that I am free of such self righteous beliefs. The worst sinner in the history of the human race, NEEDS God MORE than ANY righteous believer! And that sinner is covered by Christ, no matter how a believer FEELS they have no place in the Kingdom.

    No Christian can shut off the Kingdom of God from ANY sinner! Jesus in Matt. 23:13, " But WOE to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you SHUT off the Kingdom from men!" You claim they are not worthy for eternal forgiveness, as if you are!

    God help me, I am surrounded by this most interesting way of believers thinking heaven is not a place that sinners can inherit.

    And I ask your forgiveness, I am not an " Advanced" member of this site.

    I am truly stunned; I have to argue with believers in God, for the salvation of unbelievers.
     
  13. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    Thanks but you only answered one of my two questions and did NOT address my post.

    The BIBLE does not teach 3 Gods, it teaches a tripartite/triune God, based on SHEMA, which is shown in Deut 6:4... Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
    What the NT further reveals about God is that he has 3 distinct yet indivisible personalities. This is not new and has been shown throughout the OT. Gen 1:26 and Gen 18:1-2 are just two of many.
    Jesus was born, incarnate of the Word, the second person of the Trinity. John 1:1-18 clearly spells that out. Jesus did NOT exist at the time of Isaiah, only the Word did.

    What is clear is that if you have been a Christian for 52 years you have not read a lot of His word.

    That is what I find interesting but with much consternation.
     
  14. Mickiel

    Mickiel New Member

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  15. DogLady19

    DogLady19 New Member

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    Please cite the scriptures that show Paul was unrepentant. Moses was under the old covenant, but show me where he was unrepentant of murder, and who did he murder?

    And to be clear, NO ONE is worthy of Heaven. NO ONE can pay for their own sins. That's why Jesus had to die and pay the debt for us.

    "No Christian can shut off the Kingdom of God from ANY sinner!" I didn't say they could! And the scripture you quoted shows that we certainly can get in the way of someone finding God.

    "I am surrounded by this most interesting way of believers thinking heaven is not a place that sinners can inherit." No. That is your interpretation of what some of us are saying. Since ALL OF US SIN, we most assuredly CAN inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, but the truth is some WON'T.

    This thread started as an exploration of "some interesting things God said" but I think you have your mind made up and have no intention of exploring anything... I wanted to be part of this discussion, but you are making it personal... I don't really care for ad hominem discussions.
     
  16. Mickiel

    Mickiel New Member

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    Jesus said he came NOT to call the righteous, ( or can we say the " Christians", because obviously they think they are the righteous), but he came to bring the SINNERS, ( or unbelievers), to repentance. THAT IS the reason Jesus came to earth, for the UNBELIEVERS!

    But the Christians are condemning the unbelievers; in reality, according to the word of God, they are condemning the very reason why Jesus came.

    And Paul was killing Christians before God forced him to stop!
     
  17. DogLady19

    DogLady19 New Member

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    I think you are making generalizations about Christians. You don't know what's in everyone's heart. And I have yet to see anyone on this forum "condemning sinners" or "condemning why Jesus came" ...

    "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus" Romans 8:1

    When Paul stopped killing Christians, he repented!

    You DO have to believe to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. People who die as unbelievers will not be in Heaven.

    "they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble." Romans 11:20

    "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" Acts 16:31

    "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already" John 3:18
     
  18. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    That much is obvious, but to fail to properly exegete the Bible, is to fail to understand salvation. Picking out ONE scripture like you do here, and ignoring the following scripture just confirms that.

    v15; If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God.

    Of course He is the savior of the world just as God so LOVED the word, but the condition is that sinners must CHOOSE Him as their savior. Redemption does NOT equate to salvation automatically.
    John 3:16 does NOT stand alone, it includes v17-21 in context, to give it clarity. You would think someone who purports to have studied the Bible for 52 years would know this.

    For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

    I can and DO condemn your POV about worldy salvation, as it is NOT the truth found in scripture. We are ONLY saved when we accept and confess Jesus as our savior. Those who do not, are not. Rom 10:9-11
     
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  19. Mickiel

    Mickiel New Member

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    The Salvation of all humans is most certainly found in scripture, there are so many scriptures, it would be too long to list; but here are 100 to start with;

    http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ScripturalProofs.html

    I am not believing something that is not in scripture, its just not in religion. Three things are needed for all humans to be saved; the Love of God, the sacrifice of Christ and the will of God; we have all those; the salvation of all does not need the support of Christians. We were all created to have life.
     
  20. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    I find it best when you make as assertion that YOU yourself support it and not some biased website. Now you give me those scripture with YOUR understanding and I'll address them.
     
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