Speaking the Truth in Love

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marks

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Ephesians 4:14-16 KJV
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

The idea of "speaking the truth in love" is something I fear many people actually use as an excuse to do exactly opposite what the verse is instructing us.

Truth, not opinion. Truth, not slander. Love. How you define Love? What does love mean to you? What does it mean that God loves you?

To me, Christian Love is the inner commitment towards someone else's wellbeing. To prioritize what is good for them over what is good for me. Affection is involved, but that commitment exists in the absence of affection just the same.

However, I've learned that as we love others with Godly love, our emotions towards them become repaired, affection grows into the emotional love we look for.

Speaking the truth in love, This is a line in the sand. We need to correctly divide between flesh and spirit, and not speak out of our feelings, our pride, our envy,

Ephesians 4:28-30 KJV
28) Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
29) Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30) And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Who is able to tame their tongue? But if you do, you will be able to control your entire body. The same effort, the same mindset that overcomes the tongue is able to equally overcome the rest of the flesh. The tongue is the heaviest weight to lift, so once you can lift it, you can lift all the others too.

Let him that stole, steal no more, instead work to be able to give good things to others.

Nothing corrupt is to come out of our mouths. Godly rebuke? Or irritated flesh? Irritated flesh will NOT give grace to those who hear it. The wrath of man works not the righteousness of God. If that's what we are dishing out, we are like the man who is stealing instead of giving. Corrupt words come either from ignorance or because they appeal to the flesh in pridely self-affirmation.

Godly rebuke will not come with presumption and false words. Negative opinions of others should not be "repackaged" as "Godly rebuke".

In humble commitment to each other, this is how we can build each other in love.

Much love!
 

Pearl

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Many Christians have been badly hurt by other Christians 'speaking the truth in love'. To be able to speak the truth in a righteous way you need to pray about it first. Just because you say it's in love isn't necessarily true.
 

marks

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Many Christians have been badly hurt by other Christians 'speaking the truth in love'. To be able to speak the truth in a righteous way you need to pray about it first. Just because you say it's in love isn't necessarily true.
I agree, prayer is essential in everything, and certainly in this! The Bible warns us about "feigned love". Using claims of "speaking the truth in love" as a cover for our own bad behavior.

To me there seems to be a real lack of understanding by a lot of people about what love really is. I think the same pride/envy/anger that drives people to just dump their poor opinions of others on them is what then drives them to claim "speaking truth in love".

Personally, I find I need to be in constant prayer over what I write, and what I say. Speaking untruth, and speaking not in love, is a sure indicator one is not walking in the Spirit.

I think I'm really fishing around for words, how do we describe what it's like to know and have Christian love for others? And not just worldly opinions and fleshy drives? One is warm, welcoming, inviting, one is cold and austere and divisive.

Much love!
 

Wynona

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I don't often go back and forth with people anymore on here because I feel like Ill lose my spiritual fruit in the process.

Im glad that some people have the patience to debate consistently in a gracious way. But I do better when I'm not constantly on here and when I can say something in a thread and then get out.
 

Karl Peters

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Rev 3:19 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

The problem is often us. In fact, if the Lord Our God, Jesus Christ, is trying to get through to us, so that we might start actually listening to Him, then He needs to reprove us simply for not listening to Him! The question we all need to ask ourselves then is: Am I seeking the Lord and listening to Him?

And that is not a once in our life time question - It is an everyday called Today question! In fact a moment by moment inquiry might be better, but who is able to do and say only what God tells them? Only Jesus Christ did that. But still, it should be question of "Today"!

Now if I bring this question up, is it reproving us? Of course, because we all need to listen to Him more.

Am I told to do that - For me it is Yes for both Him personally telling me, and from what I read in the Bible!

Heb 3:13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

So is encouragement just a tasty sugary sweet-talking kind of thing?

What is the encouragement we read in the Bible?

Heb 3: 7 - 11
Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME,
AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS, WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED Me BY TESTING Me,
AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS. “THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION,
AND SAID, ‘THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART, AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS’
AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, ‘THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.’”

That is loud, strong, and harsh - but it is encouragement!

We might be saying "I want the cake" while the Wisdom of God might be saying 'you need the bitter root.

So how are we going to take the reproof from God?

Are we going to say to ourselves 'I am not going to listen anymore?'

Or are we going to say in ourselves 'Yead- God is right - I need to listen to Him everyday called "Today"'?

People - He loves us!! He loves us enough to reprove us! To correct us! To be honest with us! And to tell us where we need to improve on!

And face it - we don't tend to like that! It is those bitter herbs that we are sometimes asked to eat.
 

Wynona

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Truth, not opinion. Truth, not slander. Love. How you define Love? What does love mean to you? What does it mean that God loves you?


Still thinking about this. The Bible says that love is patient and kind. So while there may be times when we speak tough things, I believe we should default to patience and kindness in our words towards one another. The tough correction should be the exception, not the rule.
 

Wrangler

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The idea of "speaking the truth in love" is something I fear many people actually use as an excuse to do exactly opposite what the verse is instructing us.

Truth, not opinion. Truth, not slander. Love. How you define Love?
I know you said this in another thread. Here are examples of the dynamics that I see.

PERSON A: Hey buddy, your fly is down.

PERSON B: No, it's not.
  1. Who are you to judge?
  2. I'm sick of all the condescension.
  3. How do you define fly? How do you define down?
  4. I'm not your buddy. You're so arrogant, I can hardly stand it.
  5. Why don't you examine your own fly before complaining about other people's fly's?
  6. We don't talk that way in my denomination's tradition. What denomination, do you belong to? It's obviously filled with blasphemy and heresy.
  7. Christ would NEVER say that. And you call yourself a Christ follower?!
  8. You're so ignorant. You don't even realize that I am not wearing pants. I never used flies and never plan to. So, judge not, lest ye be judged.
  9. Hey? Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?
  10. If you don't stop, I'm going to put you on ignore.
  11. I wouldn't be surprised if your posts, like this, which I'm sure there are many, have been reported to admin.
  12. That's the style, grandpa. You're such a dinosaur!
  13. That was the style when KJV was first published. Don't confuse me with the fashions the crazy kids today are wearing.
  14. The fly on these pants are broken. You're such a legalist! We are not saved by works.
  15. Show me in Scripture where it says you can't walk around with our fly down.
  16. My fly was once up. It cannot be down now. OUAU.
  17. These aren't my pants. Why don't you ask whose fly it is before making assumptions. You know what they are about ASSUME ...
  18. I'm offended by your tone.
  19. I bet your mother washed your mouth out with soap when you were a kid.
  20. Don't you have anything better to talk about? Pervert!
PERSON A: Bless your heart.
  • During or after addressing all the defense mechanisms above.
@marks: Person A, you should speak the truth in love as God intended.

PERSON A: Huh?
 
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Wrangler

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I think that is a sign of a mature Christian, somebody who prays and waits to hear from God before acting.
Not on the forums but in real life, a standard I often used is to ask whether the person asked my opinion of what is true and right.

If they did not ask, odds are they don't want to hear what you have to say.
 

Jay Ross

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Not on the forums but in real life, a standard I often used is to ask whether the person asked my opinion of what is true and right.

If they did not ask, odds are they don't want to hear what you have to say.

That has been my experience. So often people already have determined their "own solution" and if they are "christian" they prefer the puppeteer's pathway where they are still in control and their backlash is often their means of retaining control over what happens to them.
 
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Karl Peters

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Depending on how you define "us," the problem is always us.
US means US!!

I would have thought that clear!!

But in practical sense, it means the only God is good!! And have we not read that God is love? And of us the Lord said, "if you being evil" ... and that is in fact the case!! We are not love - that would be God, not "US". And only God is good, not "US".

That is the "us" I am talking about and the "us" that "we" do not consider! So we are the "US" who have the problem and Jesus Christ is the Lord our God which is the solution - but who is willing to listen to Him???

Let "us" take an honest look at "US", to see if we understand:

that's true, i think praying before you speak the truth in love is helpful
I like the above post. I believe to be one of the best posts on this thread. Yet let us take sure is one of the better post and examine it.

Is "that's true" a correct statement?

Jesus said He was the Truth!! So since He is a person, He is not a "that"! Therefore "that" (whatever "that" is) is not the Truth - with one and only one exception! That exception being the very specific words that He the Truth spoke!!

Of course in the post we also read "I think praying before you speak the truth in love is helpful"

That is a great statement if it means what I think. In fact, I think that statement if under-stated! Because if you are going to speak the "Truth" you have to listen to the "Truth" and speak His words like He said them!! Doing that is in fact the only way to "speak the truth in love" - and it is indeed helpful and necessary for "US" to hear!!!

The thing is - only Jesus Christ is the Word of God - and that means only He does that perfectly! Not "US"!!

We are hopefully, those who do hear His voice and are lead by Him because we listen to Him!

Yet if we are those who do hear His voice and are lead by Him, then how come we don't know this already???

As for me (not us), but me - I hear from Him at times. Usually about a dozen times a day. I would like to be "The Word of God", but I am not Him. Yet He askes me over and over to try and get people to listen to Him, who is the Word of God and the Lord our God. He is the One you indeed does speak "the truth in love", and so hearing from Him is helpful to me!! And so I believe it would be helpful to everyone who listens to Him who is the only One speaking the truth in love. All the others are pretenders, if they think they are the one speaking "the truth in love".

I don't speak the truth in love - I try and follow Him who speaks the truth in love. In that way I try to be like Him, but at the same time realizing that I will never actually be Him. That realization keeps me seeking after Him! Pride would turn me away from Him, and "we" have a battle with the Powers, Principalities, and the dark spiritual forces of this world. If we are in the "Light" which is also Jesus Christ, we can see this problem in "US", but if in the darkness we cannot see that problem in "US"!

Shortangel - seem to see that problem that we have in "US", but only if it is understood that "praying before you speak the truth in love" means actually seeking Jesus Christ to hear what instructions He has for you.

Even then the instruction from Him might just be to lead people to Him, and not the specific words He personally has for them!! Which is the instructions I got about coming to the forum this morning. He didn't give me specific words to say, but keeps giving me the instruction to preach 'The Word of God' who is Him: - who is Love, and The Truth, and the only Good One!

All of "US" need to listen to Him and stop pretending that we are Him!
 

Karl Peters

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Ephesians 4:14-16 KJV
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

I want to go over the above verses and point out things that get missed.

In the first verse we find reproof to "Christians"!! The Ephesians were an early Christian church, and they were getting reproved!!

We people don't like reproof! We should realize that about ourselves, but this letter was kept to this day for us to read. So the reproof was not just to the Ephesians, but it also for us "Today"!! That little fact gets missed!

Now the tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine - means that the Holy Spirit and the Angels that serve the King of kings and Lord or lords, are not the only winds/spirits that we are dealing with!! The basic principle of Christianity is that we follow Jesus Christ and that by listening to His voice - and specifically His words that God has for us personally!

So we should understand that the devils/evil spirits in this world which we battle with try to pull us away from listening to Jesus Christ! They have a lot of little tricks and making "doctrines" which are contrary to listening to Jesus Christ! One little trick is "Pride"! If they can get you to think that you can be like God, then you will not need to seek the voice of the Lord our God Jesus Christ anymore! So the lie is that you are good and you can find the wisdom to know what love is by your own thinking! It's that same trick we read about in the story of the snake in the garden.

Gen 3: 5 “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

That cunning and crafty snake is still getting at men and causing them to lie and deceive, like that snake tells them.

Now take a look at the next verse: "But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:"

People deceived tend to read the first part of that verse and miss the second part and conclusion. The speaking the 'truth in love' is not so we might be Him (Love and Good) but that we might "grow up into him in all things". Therefore, because we miss the second part of the verse we separate ourselves from Him! That was not the purpose of the verse not the reasoning behind the verse.

Since Jesus Christ is the Truth, and since God is Love and Jesus Christ is the Word of God and God - then speaking the truth (Jesus Christ) in love (Jesus Christ) it means growing up in Him and not in your own thinking!!! So it means listening to Him! And that means putting Him as the head of what we do! Don't miss the second part of that verse!

Now that last verse is about How He puts things together if we His church do actually listen to Him and don't get into Pride (that snake from the garden)

We all were created by Him, and that for different purposes. Yet all of us with our various God given personalities, traits, and thinking, need to come together by listening to Him and doing what He tells us. If someone comes to you saying anything, you need to personally take it to the Lord and listen to what He tells you!! If you don't do that you are going to wind up getting tossed to and fro, and get carried about by every wind (evil spirit) of doctrine!

Therefore: speaking the truth in love means doing what He tells you to do! That means listening to Him! And that means growing in Him!

It does not mean that everybody is going to like what you say at all times! We are not trying to be "Politicians" working to create new laws and doctrines to make everyone happy. We are trying to point people to Jesus Christ, get them to listen to Him, and obey what He asked them. And doing that might mean, and probably does mean, giving them reproof! The Ephesians got reproved, and we also by those same writings!
 

Johann

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Still thinking about this. The Bible says that love is patient and kind. So while there may be times when we speak tough things, I believe we should default to patience and kindness in our words towards one another. The tough correction should be the exception, not the rule.
Correct there @Wynona...........

1Co 13:1 IF I [can] speak in the tongues of men and [even] of angels, but have not love (that reasoning, intentional, spiritual devotion such as is inspired by God's love for and in us), I am only a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And if I have prophetic powers (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), and understand all the secret truths and mysteries and possess all knowledge, and if I have [sufficient] faith so that I can remove mountains, but have not love (God's love in me) I am nothing (a useless nobody).
1Co 13:3 Even if I dole out all that I have [to the poor in providing] food, and if I surrender my body to be burned or in order that I may glory, but have not love (God's love in me), I gain nothing.
1Co 13:4 Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.
1Co 13:5 It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God's love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong].
1Co 13:6 It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail.
1Co 13:7 Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].
1Co 13:8 Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end]. As for prophecy (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth].
1Co 13:9 For our knowledge is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect), and our prophecy (our teaching) is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect).
1Co 13:10 But when the complete and perfect (total) comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away (become antiquated, void, and superseded).
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; now that I have become a man, I am done with childish ways and have put them aside.
1Co 13:12 For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim (blurred) reflection [of reality as in a riddle or enigma], but then [when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been fully and clearly known and understood [by God].
1Co 13:13 And so faith, hope, love abide [faith--conviction and belief respecting man's relation to God and divine things; hope--joyful and confident expectation of eternal salvation; love--true affection for God and man, growing out of God's love for and in us], these three; but the greatest of these is love.
AMP

This chapter, in this version, changed everything to and for me.
@marks is a prolific writer and have a way with words, but I must admit, I still battle with the Agapao love and the Phileo love/Godly love and brotherly love.

J.
 

Wynona

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Correct there @Wynona...........

1Co 13:1 IF I [can] speak in the tongues of men and [even] of angels, but have not love (that reasoning, intentional, spiritual devotion such as is inspired by God's love for and in us), I am only a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And if I have prophetic powers (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), and understand all the secret truths and mysteries and possess all knowledge, and if I have [sufficient] faith so that I can remove mountains, but have not love (God's love in me) I am nothing (a useless nobody).
1Co 13:3 Even if I dole out all that I have [to the poor in providing] food, and if I surrender my body to be burned or in order that I may glory, but have not love (God's love in me), I gain nothing.
1Co 13:4 Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.
1Co 13:5 It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God's love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong].
1Co 13:6 It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail.
1Co 13:7 Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].
1Co 13:8 Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end]. As for prophecy (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth].
1Co 13:9 For our knowledge is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect), and our prophecy (our teaching) is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect).
1Co 13:10 But when the complete and perfect (total) comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away (become antiquated, void, and superseded).
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; now that I have become a man, I am done with childish ways and have put them aside.
1Co 13:12 For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim (blurred) reflection [of reality as in a riddle or enigma], but then [when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been fully and clearly known and understood [by God].
1Co 13:13 And so faith, hope, love abide [faith--conviction and belief respecting man's relation to God and divine things; hope--joyful and confident expectation of eternal salvation; love--true affection for God and man, growing out of God's love for and in us], these three; but the greatest of these is love.
AMP

This chapter, in this version, changed everything to and for me.
@marks is a prolific writer and have a way with words, but I must admit, I still battle with the Agapao love and the Phileo love/Godly love and brotherly love.

J.
I see you, brother. I see you being Godly.

Greetings from the southeastern U.S. I was talking to a sister from South Africa the other day. I talked her ear off, wanting to learn more about the country.

Do you speak Afrikaans or any other languages? I heard there are 11 official languages. I also learned about Boerewors. It sounds delicious.
 

Johann

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I see you, brother. I see you being Godly.

Greetings from the southeastern U.S. I was talking to a sister from South Africa the other day. I talked her ear off, wanting to learn more about the country.

Do you speak Afrikaans or any other languages? I heard there are 11 official languages. I also learned about Boerewors. It sounds delicious.
Lol!
Greetings.

I speak a couple of languages, Afrikaans my mother tongue.
Only learned about boerewors? What about the pap and vleis? Delicious.

I am in Durban, so here the food is SPICY, think anything spicy, food wise, we have it.
Correct re the 11 official lingo's Wynona.

At the moment a heatwave upon heatwave here, other than that, all good.

Shalom to you and family
Johann