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Spiritual Israel

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by RND, Jun 3, 2007.

  1. RND

    RND New Member

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    Many people misunderstand and misinterpret the symbology of literal Israel with "spiritual" Israel of the New Testament." Hopefully in this thread there will be an awakening and understanding that one is not a Jew that is one outwardly, but a "spiritual Jew" in one inwardly, who's heart has been changed from the inside out, who's praise is of God and not men.Who is Israel? Who is the Church?
     
  2. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    NOTE: Judah and Israel are two very different nations ... who are speaking of?
     
  3. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    (RND;11218)
    Many people misunderstand and misinterpret the symbology of literal Israel with "spiritual" Israel of the New Testament." Hopefully in this thread there will be an awakening and understanding that one is not a Jew that is one outwardly, but a "spiritual Jew" in one inwardly, who's heart has been changed from the inside out, who's praise is of God and not men.Who is Israel? Who is the Church?
    The whole earth will be spiritual Israel on God' Kingdom. Jesus is making it very clear that Jesus' followers are Abraham's decendants and Spirtiaul Jews.Just my two cents.[​IMG]
     
  4. RND

    RND New Member

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    (betchevy;11232)
    NOTE: Judah and Israel are two very different nations ... who are speaking of?
    Did you read my post? Israel=The group of twelve tribes. Judah=Judah and Benjamin.Israel and Judah were at one time one nation under God (Num. 1, 2). Then they split (1 Kings 12). Israel was absorbed and taken over by the Assyrians (2 Kings 17). Judah and Benjamin were taken over by the Babylonians some 200 years after Israel was carried away. (# Ezra 2:1)And yet, at one time, the nation of Israel included the tribe of Judah as a province. Interersting.
     
  5. RND

    RND New Member

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    (Faithful1;11250)
    The whole earth will be spiritual Israel on God' Kingdom. Jesus is making it very clear that Jesus' followers are Abraham's decendants and Spirtiaul Jews.Just my two cents.[​IMG]
    Two very worthy cents if I do say so myself.
     
  6. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    I would like to add that there are some denominations believe all Jewish people will be saved at the end. They also believe Israel deserve special protection. That's the main reason why America support Israel.
     
  7. RND

    RND New Member

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    (Faithful1;11258)
    I would like to add that there are some denominations believe all Jewish people will be saved at the end. They also believe Israel deserve special protection. That's the main reason why America support Israel.
    And a position as you described would make God's word none effect and in essence makes God a racist.
     
  8. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    And a position as you described would make God's word none effect and in essence makes God a racist.
    that's right; which is not true.
     
  9. RND

    RND New Member

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    (Faithful1;11309)
    that's right; which is not true.
    I'm glad to know we are in agreement in this vital matter and share understanding!Praise God!
     
  10. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    (RND;11262)
    And a position as you described would make God's word none effect and in essence makes God a racist.
    Racist? Well, if you are going to be legalistic, perhaps you could call him that. I would say it's not racist, it's just a simple decision. If a parent promises a special gift to one kid, but not to the rest, is that parent playing favorites? Perhaps, but I think that view is a little too narrow.Israel, the Israel referred to in revelation, is the real Israel. At least, that is what I see when I have searched the passages in study. Perhaps you can enlighten me.
     
  11. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    (Biblical Tetragramaton;11350)
    Racist? Well, if you are going to be legalistic, perhaps you could call him that. I would say it's not racist, it's just a simple decision. If a parent promises a special gift to one kid, but not to the rest, is that parent playing favorites? Perhaps, but I think that view is a little too narrow.Israel, the Israel referred to in revelation, is the real Israel. At least, that is what I see when I have searched the passages in study. Perhaps you can enlighten me.
    Then how do you read that when Jesus says to the Jews they are not Abraham's decendants because they dont believe in Jesus?
     
  12. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    (Faithful1;11363)
    Then how do you read that when Jesus says to the Jews they are not Abraham's decendants because they dont believe in Jesus?
    Goodness me, I'm not meaning to suggest that a spiritual Israel isn't biblical. However, a deep study of scriptures will reveal that the title 'Israel' has more than just a duality to it.For example, it's interpreted as analogous to Messiah in Hosea 11:1 {Matthew 2:15}, and in Isaiah the Term "My servent" is frequently used speaking of Isreal, and being analogous of Christ. For example Isaiah 41:8,44:1,44:21,49:3. However, Servant was used to indicate Messiah as well; Isaiah 42:1-9, Isaiah 52:13 {52:13-53:12}.Paul taught on this as well. See Romans 9:4-11:31. Notice especially 9:5, 11:1, 11:25. Read it through and you will see that the analogy of ingrafted Branches in Romans 11:11-21 is speaking of us as spiritual Israel. The entire context, however, is of Paul's people; the Jewish Nation; Israel. The truly Biblical term for spiritual Israel is 'Zion'.Jesus was, in the instance you bring up, rebuking their lack of faith. He is asserting that they are not believers. Just as Messiah is to yield many sons [Isaiah 53:10] But has no sons [Isaiah 53:8], so also here the claim is that they are not spiritually Abraham's sons because if they were, then they would produce fruits in accordance with that.Read Carefully: John 8:37-40Notice how Jesus, on the one hand, claims that he knows that they are the children of Abraham?Now, let's look closer at what Paul teaches us. Romans 11:25-28Ok, Now let's observe another scripture; Revelation Revelation 14:1-5Who are these 144 thousand? Revelation 7:3-11So, there are two interpretations. First, is that this is spiritual Israel, as the people from every nations are all holding palm branches. The Second is that these people, who have been scattered throughout the Earth by the Sword the Lord Promised in the Torah {Scattering Israel}, are all the Jews. Just as Isaiah 11:10-12 would confirm.Here's another prophetic passage I hope will help make it clear. Zechariah 12:10-13:1Remember, do not be ignorant about this mystery; All Israel will be saved.~Shalom Elechem{No I am not Jewish}.
     
  13. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    All Israel will be saved.
    so are you saying that all Jewsh will be saved at the end?
     
  14. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    No, but I am saying that there is a remnant. A Remnant of Jews both physically and spiritually.Eusebius Pamphili seems to have accorded this position for the apostles alone in his Demonstratio Evangelica, but I'm pretty sure that I disagree with him. Recall that Jews have to answer to this; Deuteronomy 18:15-22All I'm saying is that God has a special plan involving Israel. Those scriptures were my basis for asserting that.
     
  15. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (Faithful1;11371)
    so are you saying that all Jewsh will be saved at the end?
    Remember here the ten tribes were scattered over the Caucasus Mountains into Scotland then to Britain and around the world even into ships and across the seas in to many lands many of us are descendants of these ten tribes and do not know it. The Jews in Israel (the country) now are from the tribes of Judah and Levi. The other ten tribes are as many as the stars in heaven and scattered around the globe
     
  16. RND

    RND New Member

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    (Biblical Tetragramaton;11350)
    Racist? Well, if you are going to be legalistic, perhaps you could call him that. I would say it's not racist, it's just a simple decision. If a parent promises a special gift to one kid, but not to the rest, is that parent playing favorites? Perhaps, but I think that view is a little too narrow.
    None the less it would be playing favorites.
    Israel, the Israel referred to in revelation, is the real Israel. At least, that is what I see when I have searched the passages in study. Perhaps you can enlighten me.
    Lemme see here, you call me "legalistic" because the Bible says there is no more Jew or Greek, and that one is not a Jew on the outside, but "inwardly" and I happen to believe what the Bible says and now you want me to "enlighten" you. Suggested reading: "How to win friends and influence people."You know those tribes of Israel listed in Revelation? There is something absolutely fascinating in the order in which they are listed. Something only God the Father could have made sure happened. Get that down and you'll get a fascinating glimpse into the plan of Salvation.Oh, and by the way:Galatians 3: 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
     
  17. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    Galatians 3: 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
    Excellent, thank you. God does not play favoritism. what count is faithfulness!!!
     
  18. RND

    RND New Member

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    Excellent, thank you. God does not play favoritism. what count is faithfulness!!!
    Praise the Lord! Thank Him, there His words....I was just borrowing them!
     
  19. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    RND, no I haven;t read all you posts and should not have to in order to answer this thread... if you think its a requirement then get busy reading my 300 + before you answer this...time and again you and others here are intermixing Jews and Israel... God is not a racist.. but we have become blinded to who we are .... most of us cannot take or geneology past the 1800's... but God knows exactly where every member of every tribe went and flourished.. he can read our DNA and knows who is faithful to Him and who is faithful to some religious organization...If you do not understand the chapters of Genesis 3 you will not understand Israel or Judah or the synagogue of Satan which Christ spoke of in John 8:39-44. There is a war being fought in the earth, it is between the sons of God and the the sons of satan...both sides have representation from every color race and creed..we have become so mixed in racial hertiage that its almost impossible to find a pure race.. That is not even an issue.. for God loves all the souls of man and does not want even one to perish...that is why we exist in flesh...and why God sent Christ to redeem every one, even those who may be of the serpents seed... there is only satan and the few who refused to be born of woman who are condemned at this time... all others still have a chance at salvation...God is a just and loving Father who seeks to accomplish the salvation of every soul He can...
     
  20. RND

    RND New Member

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    (betchevy;11426)
    RND, no I haven;t read all you posts and should not have to in order to answer this thread... if you think its a requirement then get busy reading my 300 + before you answer this...
    Um, I meant the OP, not every one of my posts. Duh-oh!
    time and again you and others here are intermixing Jews and Israel...
    Um, weren't they a "mixed" multitude coming out of Egypt? Exodus 12:38And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.
    God is not a racist.. but we have become blinded to who we are .... most of us cannot take or geneology past the 1800's...
    But we can trace our heritage back to Adam and Eve and neither one was a Jew.
    but God knows exactly where every member of every tribe went and flourished.. he can read our DNA and knows who is faithful to Him and who is faithful to some religious organization...
    Yet nothing in the Bible about our DNA being part of our repentance is there?
    If you do not understand the chapters of Genesis 3 you will not understand Israel or Judah or the synagogue of Satan which Christ spoke of in John 8:39-44.
    Serpent seed teaching? How Sheppard's Chapel of you!
    There is a war being fought in the earth, it is between the sons of God and the the sons of satan...both sides have representation from every color race and creed..we have become so mixed in racial hertiage that its almost impossible to find a pure race..
    You mean the Great Controversy between Jesus Christ and Satan?
    That is not even an issue.. for God loves all the souls of man and does not want even one to perish...that is why we exist in flesh...and why God sent Christ to redeem every one, even those who may be of the serpents seed...
    Sinner=serpent seed? Doesn't that mean we're all of the serpent's seed then? Romans 3:23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    there is only satan and the few who refused to be born of woman who are condemned at this time...
    I thought Satan got kicked out of Heaven after the war?
    all others still have a chance at salvation...God is a just and loving Father who seeks to accomplish the salvation of every soul He can...
    Amen! However, what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
     
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