Suffering

[soul man]

17 and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. - Romans 8:17-18.

-- What is the Glory of God in this scripture "which shall be revealed in us? To see the love of your life in you --

In all of Christianity, as well as the world, and even religion - it will come down to choice. The choices we make, and the choices we make not based on how you feel..but love. That is really the end of the story..the climax, as said in movie making. The world bears down on humanity, and we do not understand suffering in the world. For believers the world brings them to Christ (for most believers), and then the schoolhouse for believers - the molding and the making of a son is in full swing!

In the world we have built into creation what we know as suffering. Suffering is not a popular subject because it hurts. We would like to not deal with the subject and just ignore it.. but just the same it is there, and has to be reckoned with. What happens in suffering; suffering is a converging power in creation that has purpose. All of the world has in it converging powers. What they do is converge on humanity for an end of the story, so to speak. For believers it bears down on them to bring about something that the world can never know. Pure love! An absolute knowing of whom you believe, and a love for God over the love of self.

What is that love - it is a decision that is made by believers to choose what they know - over how they feel. You may feel it one day, and the next day it is gone. That is feelings; up one day and down the next. Not until a conscience love choice is made, do we know love. What does that mean? You love your Father, more than you love yourself. That sounds simple, not just words.

Not unlike the boy that persues the girl. Marriage is like that. Until the conscience decision is made to love know matter what, do we understand love. What is divorce? divorce is a conscience decision made out of a feelings. We feel Christianity is somehow a magical religion where everything is going to work..no matter my decision. What comes up for believers time and time again is; to make a decision to pursue the Lord with your whole heart. That is choosing between two. Do I live my life and feelings - or live by what I know.

When a relationship is based on a decision to love no matter what - is it established and sound. Not perfect but not a frivolous up and down - do I love. What does that do in relationship to the Lord? You can move on, there is no more growling around about the preasures that converge on the believer. The relationship smoothes out, so to say, and we can move on! The two become one in love and action, and live together in unity. We talk about the mind being compatible with spirit - with the Christ in you Spirit-nature (Christ swallowing up who I am). The mind has to be compatible with Christ in you to understand your relationship! The mind cannot control the spirit as it did with the old nature - because Christ does not need a controlling mind, he needs a compatible mind in you. That is a story for another day!

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. - Romans 7:4.

 

[Bob Estey]

17 and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. - Romans 8:17-18.

-- What is the Glory of God in this scripture "which shall be revealed in us? To see the love of your life in you --

In all of Christianity, as well as the world, and even religion - it will come down to choice. The choices we make, and the choices we make not based on how you feel..but love. That is really the end of the story..the climax, as said in movie making. The world bears down on humanity, and we do not understand suffering in the world. For believers the world brings them to Christ (for most believers), and then the schoolhouse for believers - the molding and the making of a son is in full swing!

In the world we have built into creation what we know as suffering. Suffering is not a popular subject because it hurts. We would like to not deal with the subject and just ignore it.. but just the same it is there, and has to be reckoned with. What happens in suffering; suffering is a converging power in creation that has purpose. All of the world has in it converging powers. What they do is converge on humanity for an end of the story, so to speak. For believers it bears down on them to bring about something that the world can never know. Pure love! An absolute knowing of whom you believe, and a love for God over the love of self.

What is that love - it is a decision that is made by believers to choose what they know - over how they feel. You may feel it one day, and the next day it is gone. That is feelings; up one day and down the next. Not until a conscience love choice is made, do we know love. What does that mean? You love your Father, more than you love yourself. That sounds simple, not just words.

Not unlike the boy that persues the girl. Marriage is like that. Until the conscience decision is made to love know matter what, do we understand love. What is divorce? divorce is a conscience decision made out of a feelings. We feel Christianity is somehow a magical religion where everything is going to work..no matter my decision. What comes up for believers time and time again is; to make a decision to pursue the Lord with your whole heart. That is choosing between two. Do I live my life and feelings - or live by what I know.

When a relationship is based on a decision to love no matter what - is it established and sound. Not perfect but not a frivolous up and down - do I love. What does that do in relationship to the Lord? You can move on, there is no more growling around about the preasures that converge on the believer. The relationship smoothes out, so to say, and we can move on! The two become one in love and action, and live together in unity. We talk about the mind being compatible with spirit - with the Christ in you Spirit-nature (Christ swallowing up who I am). The mind has to be compatible with Christ in you to understand your relationship! The mind cannot control the spirit as it did with the old nature - because Christ does not need a controlling mind, he needs a compatible mind in you. That is a story for another day!

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. - Romans 7:4.

Of suffering, I might raise the question: Is suffering necessary, or is it the "price" we pay for our sin? In other words, had I beaten the odds and lived a sinless life up to this point, would I suffer at all? I know Jesus lived a sinless life and was crucified, but he was a special case.

 

[GodsGrace]

Of suffering, I might raise the question: Is suffering necessary, or is it the "price" we pay for our sin? In other words, had I beaten the odds and lived a sinless life up to this point, would I suffer at all? I know Jesus lived a sinless life and was crucified, but he was a special case.

Suffering is what we place under the heading of evil.
I don't think it should be necessary, but it's woven into creation somehow.
All suffering has one of 3 causes:
Ourself
Others
Nature

So even if you had lived a perfect life, you still would have experienced suffering. Simply because you're part of creation.

 

[soul man]

Suffering is what we place under the heading of evil.
I don't think it should be necessary, but it's woven into creation somehow.
All suffering has one of 3 causes:
Ourself
Others
Nature

So even if you had lived a perfect life, you still would have experienced suffering. Simply because you're part of creation.

Good thoughts! Thanks you. Suffering is built into creation - is a term we have used.

 

[Bob Estey]

Suffering is what we place under the heading of evil.
I don't think it should be necessary, but it's woven into creation somehow.
All suffering has one of 3 causes:
Ourself
Others
Nature

So even if you had lived a perfect life, you still would have experienced suffering. Simply because you're part of creation.

The way I look at it: We've all sinned, so we all suffer. I like to believe if I repent of all my sin, my suffering will go away.

 

[GodsGrace]

The way I look at it: We've all sinned, so we all suffer. I like to believe if I repent of all my sin, my suffering will go away.

I could hope this for you, but it's not taught in scripture.
Jesus said to pick up our cross daily.
In the Beatitudes, Matthew 5 specifically, He was addressing the suffering of persons.
We will suffer on this earth until the day we die.
Not being negative,,,just truthful.

 

[Bob Estey]

I could hope this for you, but it's not taught in scripture.
Jesus said to pick up our cross daily.
In the Beatitudes, Matthew 5 specifically, He was addressing the suffering of persons.
We will suffer on this earth until the day we die.
Not being negative,,,just truthful.

You say it's not taught in scripture, but Jesus said, "Repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Doesn't that suggest if we repent of our sin, our suffering will disappear (now)?

 

[GodsGrace]

You say it's not taught in scripture, but Jesus said, "Repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Doesn't that suggest if we repent of our sin, our suffering will disappear (now)?

No Bob...
It means that if we want to be a part of God's Kingdom, here and now, we need to repent and join in by being disciples of Jesus.

Jesus said that in this world we will have tribulation, but we are to rejoice because jesus has overcome the world and our strength is in Him.

He taught us how to choose what we do wisely,ike the man who built on rock. And I dare say that there would be much less suffering if more persons followed His lead. Think how it would be if we were all just nice to each other.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

17 and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. - Romans 8:17-18.

-- What is the Glory of God in this scripture "which shall be revealed in us? To see the love of your life in you --

-- What is the Glory of God in this scripture "which shall be revealed in us? To see the love of your life in you --
^Makes me think of:
For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? [20] For you are our glory and joy. 1 Thessalonians 2:19-20

Also, and when the chief shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.1 Peter 5:4

You shared about the suffering of this present time not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. “Revealed” and “appears” are alike(Imo). what is “the unfading crown of glory”…could it be what is the Hope or joy or crown of rejoicing that is unfading?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Suffering is what we place under the heading of evil.

i get why you say this because I also despise suffering and despise seeing it. But I also have questions, for instance pertaining to the verse “what you meant for evil, God meant it for good.” With “though He was a Son, yet he learned obedience from the things which he suffered.” Yet it doesn’t end there but having been made perfect…He became the source of Life.

also consider Hebrews 2:14 where as much as the children partake of flesh and blood, he also took part of the same.

2 questions:

If the children do not take part of flesh and blood …would any of us be here?

If the children do not take part in flesh and blood, then how could we know…likewise He Himself took part of the same?

 

[Bob Estey]

No Bob...
It means that if we want to be a part of God's Kingdom, here and now, we need to repent and join in by being disciples of Jesus.

Jesus said that in this world we will have tribulation, but we are to rejoice because jesus has overcome the world and our strength is in Him.

He taught us how to choose what we do wisely,ike the man who built on rock. And I dare say that there would be much less suffering if more persons followed His lead. Think how it would be if we were all just nice to each other.

I say yes. Heaven is what our lives turn into when we repent of our sin. I believe that is the message of Matthew 4;17.

 

[GodsGrace]

I say yes. Heaven is what our lives turn into when we repent of our sin. I believe that is the message of Matthew 4;17.

OK
So I guess I haven't repented...

 

[GodsGrace]

i get why you say this because I also despise suffering and despise seeing it. But I also have questions, for instance pertaining to the verse “what you meant for evil, God meant it for good.” With “though He was a Son, yet he learned obedience from the things which he suffered.” Yet it doesn’t end there but having been made perfect…He became the source of Life.

also consider Hebrews 2:14 where as much as the children partake of flesh and blood, he also took part of the same.

2 questions:

If the children do not take part of flesh and blood …would any of us be here?

If the children do not take part in flesh and blood, then how could we know…likewise He Himself took part of the same?

I don't understand V,
What do you mean by
If we don't partake of the flesh and blood?
We ARE flesh and blood, it's Jesus that became like us.

So He could be perfect and atone for our sins and make satan powerless in our lives.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I don't understand V,
What do you mean by
If we don't partake of the flesh and blood?
We ARE flesh and blood, it's Jesus that became like us.

So He could be perfect and atone for our sins and make satan powerless in our lives.

yes we are flesh and blood. What does “as the children partake of flesh and blood” mean to you? To me it means as we all partake of this “flesh and blood” striving to eat, drink, stay warm. Needing sleep. All the things of living in this time…the point I was trying to make is If we did not take part of it, then how would we be aware someone loved us so much that Likewise He took part of the same. Does that make any more sense? It doesn’t matter I’m only questioning if suffering is evil when God is long-suffering?

 

[Bob Estey]

OK
So I guess I haven't repented...

I find repentance can be challenging. Still, I feel better when I'm obeying the Lord's commandments.

 

[amadeus]

Suffering is what we place under the heading of evil.
I don't think it should be necessary, but it's woven into creation somehow.
All suffering has one of 3 causes:
Ourself
Others
Nature

So even if you had lived a perfect life, you still would have experienced suffering. Simply because you're part of creation.

Consider Joshua and Caleb. They were the obedient, subjected, believing ones, but before they were allowed to enter the Promised Land, they also had to spend 40 years in the wilderness along with all of those who died.

 

[GodsGrace]

Consider Joshua and Caleb. They were the obedient, subjected, believing ones, but before they were allowed to enter the Promised Land, they also had to spend 40 years in the wilderness along with all of those who died.

Agreed.
Jesus never said to go and be free of suffering.
He said to go and sin no more.
He healed some persons...not everyone.
We're asked to pick up our cross and carry it...
God helps us to carry it, though we still feel the pain.
Imagine if we didn't know God...

 

[GodsGrace]

I find repentance can be challenging. Still, I feel better when I'm obeying the Lord's commandments.

How is repentance challenging when you know what it means?
It just means changing your way, your direction.
Are you headed for the evil one,
or are you headed for God?

If you're headed for God, then you've changed your way,
you've repented, and are walking into God's arms---waiting for you.

 

[GodsGrace]

yes we are flesh and blood. What does “as the children partake of flesh and blood” mean to you? To me it means as we all partake of this “flesh and blood” striving to eat, drink, stay warm. Needing sleep. All the things of living in this time…the point I was trying to make is If we did not take part of it, then how would we be aware someone loved us so much that Likewise He took part of the same. Does that make any more sense? It doesn’t matter I’m only questioning if suffering is evil when God is long-suffering?

Yes, I believe suffering is evil. But there's little we can do about it.
If everyone belonged to the Kingdom of God here on earth, we'd have only natural evil to deal with (sickness, drought, etc.)
As it is, we also have the other 2 problems causing evil...ourselves and others.


It's OK if you want to understand Hebrews 2:14 in the way you've stated.
We need to do all those physical things you mentioned...just as Jesus did.
He became one of us and also needed to do these things.

I like the NLT to understand this verse better...
Hebrews 2:14
14Because God’s children are human beings—made of flesh and blood—the Son also became flesh and blood. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the power of the devil, who had the power of death.

 

[Bob Estey]

How is repentance challenging when you know what it means?
It just means changing your way, your direction.
Are you headed for the evil one,
or are you headed for God?

If you're headed for God, then you've changed your way,
you've repented, and are walking into God's arms---waiting for you.

Is resisting temptation always easy?