Teachers & The Curse In The End Times- Rapture Believers

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Pariah

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Malachi 3:1-2Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:These are the opening words of the Chapter 3 in the Book of Malachi, the final book in what we know as the Old Testament. The latter part of the second verse is what gives us the timeframe. It is clear that this in when Christ comes back to judge!A refiner's fire is the process where the precious metal is seperated from what is called the "slag" or leftovers from the melting process. Fullers' soap, basically a form of alkali, is very similar to lye soap. The clear theme here is that this coming will indeed be a purification; that is to say the separation of the wheat from the chaff. This is yet another Old Testament book which speaks of the Second Advent!
I see this as applicable to the judgment falling on the House of God first. You do not refine when you seperate the wheat from the chaff. This is the scourging the Father will give to every child He receives. Hebrews 12:1-29
Malachi 3:3And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.The first will be the Levites. Why? Because the Levites are the priests and teachers; this places a heavy burden on teachers of our Father's word to be correct. We certainly should not be afraid to teach the Word by any means. However, consider this a Biblical warning to those who teach false doctrines under the guise of being servants of YHVH.
Ditto on the fables, brother.
Malachi 3:4-5Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years. And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.These verses speak for themselves. YHVH will be swift in judgement.
And are not those things being practised by wayward believers in Christ? This would be the vessel unto dishonour as the Lord will chasten ever child He receives that they may be partakers of His holiness.
Malachi 3:6For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.In other words, our Father remembers! He changes not, and when you accept him [Christ] as your Lord and Saviour, he remembers. This is to say, do the work and you will be remembered for it when it counts. You'll be spared the fate of those who did not know God and went against him.
1 Peter 4:16-19 Note verse 18. Notice again the reference to His appearing in 1 Peter 5:1-4. How can those that be ready go through the refiner's fire? This leads to the elect then as the vessels unto honour: the chaste bride of Christ for being ready.
Malachi 3:7Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?Remember the ordinances given to us in the form of His Holy Word. Return unto him, follow what he has so excellently laid out before you in the Bible, and he will take care of you. This doesn't mean that life will always be fair and that suddenly it will be easy, but he shall be with you "for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee" (Hebrews 13:5).
His ordinance is John 14:6 John 5:22-23 But becuase they do not return for they do not see themselves as departing when they see the Holy Ghost as another "go to " Person of the Trinity.Those left behind will be restored to the path of righteousness for His name's sake as Jesus is their first love.
We'll skip ahead now to verse 13:Malachi 3:13-15Your words have been stout against me, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, What have we spoken so much against thee? Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the LORD of hosts? And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.The accuracy of this statement is simply amazing. Does it not sound like the very words (modernized, of course) that we hear today! "There's no God... There's no point in serving God... Terrorists, criminals, other religion's members all seem to prosper..." and so on. You even here of self-made Christians preaching that the Bible doesn't apply anymore or that "things have somehow changed."Verse 15 tells us the reality that some of these people will prosper, for a short time here on Earth. However, you have seen in the previous verses, if you leave God, he will leave you in the final judgement. I can assure you beloved, that is somewhere you do not want to be.Have faith:
For all the holy rollers and applying faith for gain, they do so by going around the ordinance of John 14:6 by going after the "Spirit of God". Being left behind at the pre-tribulational rapture event is where no believer wants to be for being wayward, but verse 15 states that they will be delivered as it will lead to verse 16 being restored to the path of righteousness for His name's sake that God will hearken unto them and record them.
Malachi 3:16Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.The key concept here is again that God remembers. Flip over to Psalms 56 for a moment.Psalms 56:2-11Mine enemies would daily swallow me up: for they be many that fight against me, O thou most High. What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee. In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me. Every day they wrest my words: all their thoughts are against me for evil. They gather themselves together, they hide themselves, they mark my steps, when they wait for my soul. Shall they escape by iniquity? in thine anger cast down the people, O God. Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: are they not in thy book? When I cry unto thee, then shall mine enemies turn back: this I know; for God is for me. In God will I praise his word: in the LORD will I praise his word. In God have I put my trust: I will not be afraid what man can do unto me.Each and every single time one of His are attacked, led astray, or hurt in any form for that matter it goes into the book. In other words, again we see that He remembers all.
Including those that did not feed them, clothe them, nor visit them when they were sick or in prison.
Here's the reward for those who trust in Him and the final consequence for those who do not.Revelation 20:12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.Revelation 20:15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.Revelation 21:27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
You left out some important verses in Revelation 20 for context of the kind of judging being gievn.Revelation 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.That is after the 1000 year reign of Christ. Satan is casted into the pit and released after 1000 years and he succeed somehow by luring many to rebel with him against the Lord. Of course, the devil is defeated.Is it not strange that those that went through the great tribulation would have their deeds recorded; those that have been rebellious? Is it not even stranger that Revelation 20 is when everybody is judged save for the elect?
We now return to the two final verses of Malachi 3:Malachi 3:17-18And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.Here we are provided with a more short term benefit as well. When you accept Christ and listen to what he has to say in the Bible, you'll be able to discern the good from the bad. God stays with you.
What better way to mark that return when they are left behind to go through the great tribulation. It has to be a singular event for the hour of trial to start for all on the earth.
Malachi 4:1For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.Does the burn theme sound a bit familiar? It hopefully should.
1 Corinthians 3:10-23
2 Peter 3:7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.2 Peter 3:10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.There are certainly many more passages where the connection can be made, but again here is another bookmark in the Word to lead us. When this day comes and this judgement is made, the latter part of verse 1 of Malachi 4 tells us there will be nothing left. This, my friends, is the lake of fire.
I disagree. The earth will not go in the lake of fire. This is a different fire. The Refiner's fire as well as the wrath of God. You had mentioned the refiner's fire earlier, but in adding to this for the bowl judgments on the earth is the wrath of God which is the fire withheld for judgment on ungodly men. First one was the Flood. The next one is the fire.
Malachi 4:2-3But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.A prophecy fulfilled. See Luke 1:78. Jesus came and gave us what we needed to know. This was for those who hold reverence in their heart of the Lord.
No comment.
Malachi 4:4Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.Hearken back to Malachi 3:7. Remember God and he will most certainly remember you. Come to Him and He'll come to you.
John 5:39-40
Malachi 4:5Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:Another example of prophecy fulfilled. Elijah literally means "My God is YHVH!"
No comment yet.
Finally, we are left with the last verse of the Old Testament. Perhaps the words aren't quite what you'd expect them to be:Malachi 4:6And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."Lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."
Comment: The prophet will be sent to warn the wayward to repent. If they do not, judgment will fall on the earth as the hour of trial will try all that live on the earth.
It is written in another book that the earth will be smote with a curse. Let's look at another Old Testament book of prophecy to find out about this curse, flip back a book.Zechariah 5Zechariah 5:1-2Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll. And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.Here we have a flying scroll, about to reveal something very important.Zechariah 5:3Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it.Zechariah 5:4I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.This is the curse spoken of in the final verse of Malachi. This curse is felt by those who do not open their ears to the Word.Zechariah 5:5Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth.Now our Father is revealing something very important to us. For those of you who believe in the Rapture, I want you to pay the utmost attention to this part of Zechariah 5.Zechariah 5:6And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth.An ephah is a basket. This basket goes forth all over the Earth of the curse.Zechariah 5:7And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah.This is the woman spoken of in Revelation. The whore of Babylon.Revelation 17:3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.Zechariah 5:8And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof.Similar comparisons and explanations are drawn in Revelation 17.Zechariah 5:9Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.Sound familiar? This is where you'll find the rapture theory in the Word of God. This was written thousands of years before this idea formally materialized as we know it today. Still ready to fly away?
I do not see this as a reference for the rapture theory at all. I haven't used it. If the curse is going to be on the earth, I fail to see your point about not flying away.
Just in case you're not convince, God's Word has one more thing to say.Zechariah 5:10-11Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah? And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base.The phrase "land of Shinar" is another name for Babylon. That's where that basket baring the curse will go. This is where those who will fall victim to the rapture deception will head. These are not my words, this is the Word of God.
I disagree. Those falling victim to the deception of another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues are in the land of Shinar. That is what they get for climbing up another way.. for not seeking the gift from Jesus Christ. They sought another spirit to receive and they call that spirit the Holy Spirit and that is why they do not understand about returning to Jesus for they fail to see that they had departed from Him.Seems like your scriptural warfare are for the wayward: not for speaking against the rapture. Just because you do not understand the promise of Jesus coming to receive us unto Himself so that where He is NOW, there shall we be, does not neglect the coming judgment on the House of God for how can it come unless the rapture does?
 

Christina

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Its called lack of faith and listentening to men Pariah to answer your last statement in your post. You seem to lack an ability to understand the differance of the written Word from men words.. you only know the teaching of men and what they tell you is written ... so are as blinded as those you accuse ... Wisdom comes from God not menWhy dont you try reading 2 Thess it will tell you all about when it is that Christ comes and corrects the misunderstanding that the 3 week old church of Thess in 1 Thess. AFTER the antichrist (the son of pertidition, man of sin) there is no secret coming before this except in the minds of men. But Im sure Antichrist will promise some sort of Rapture in his flood of lies so the question is will you be getting in line? ... Because Gods Word never discuss's any Rapture or catching away before the Antichrist and that is the tribulation beginning and we all be here ...but keep telling yourself fabels of men ...
 

gumby

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Heres why the rapture theory is wrong:Ezekiel 13:20 "Therefore, thus says the lord god, behold i am against your magic bands by which you hunt lives there as birds and i will tear them from your arms; and i will let them go, even those lives whom you hunt as birds"Colossinas 2:8 "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to christ"I dont beleive in the rapture and i rufuse to.
 

Christina

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Heres why the rapture theory is wrong:Ezekiel 13:20 "Therefore, thus says the lord god, behold i am against your magic bands by which you hunt lives there as birds and i will tear them from your arms; and i will let them go, even those lives whom you hunt as birds"Colossinas 2:8 "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to christ"I dont beleive in the rapture and i rufuse to.
Good for you gumby you are one of the few that understand this verse in Eze. Pillows(magic Bands) sometimes called kerchiefs were the the things worn on the wrists of the sorcerers those practicing magic black arts as they chanted incantations ...we might think of them today as the tools of the magician when he waves a cloth over the hat says a few words abracadabra and pulls out a rabbit ... Pillows /magic bands/ quick of hand all things used to deceive cover up what really happening (truth) ... This is rapture theory slight of hand/ Words to deceive ... Gods does not like those who practice to deceive to teach his children/souls they are going to fly away like birds ... his truth,is that this is a false doctrine.. A doctrine of lying men and their magic incantations slight of hand ...Gods truth will set you free ..of these lies
 

gumby

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Good for you gumby you are one of the few that understand this verse in Eze. Pillows(magic Bands) sometimes called kerchiefs were the the things worn on the wrists of the sorcerers those practicing magic black arts as they chanted incantations ...we might think of them today as the tools of the magician when he waves a cloth over the hat says a few words abracadabra and pulls out a rabbit ... Pillows /magic bands/ quick of hand all things used to deceive cover up what really happening (truth) ... This is rapture theory slight of hand/ Words to deceive ... Gods does not like those who practice to deceive to teach his children/souls they are going to fly away like birds ... his truth,is that this is a false doctrine.. A doctrine of lying men and their magic incantations slight of hand ...Gods truth will set you free ..of these lies
Well lets just say this much about my childhood, i had a very deceptive and power hungry pastor that tried to cram the rapture theory down my throat at an early age, the ironic thing though is that pastor later quite because the people were protesting that he was spreading all sorts of rumors and lies. Even then at a very young age though i still knew that something my sunday school teacher was teaching me and telling me wasnt right because those people were teaching the rapture. In my mind its a false lie and there is no mention of the word rapture in any version of the bible. I praise god that i have wise people like you who dont buy into traditions of men
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Christina

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Gods wisdom was obviously with you even as a child gumby
smile.gif
I once read a very interesting article about this verse in Eze.(13:20) that the interpreters had a very difficult time with the fly part of this verse and really struggled to see if there was a another word that could have been meant here... it literally means to fly (up /away)physically as a bird might do they could find no other word no other explanations no Hebrew idioms(figures of speech)meaning anything different. They couldn't see exactly how it related to the rest of the verse ..they just went with what was said exactly but had no logical explanations ... Fast forward a few hundred years and we have the false Rapture doctrine ... not heard of before 1830 really only taking hold in the main stream in the last 40/50 or so years ... What another great testament to Gods Words that many miss not seeing and understanding this verse for its truth and wisdomGod always knew this false doctrine would come about in the last days and warned us against it thousands of years before it happened....yet it made no sense to men until this last generation when this doctrine came to pass..... I love these little gems in Gods Word its Just sad that most would prefer men's lies to Gods gems of truth he gives us many ....
 

Pariah

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Guess you all have to wait and see then. Be far it from me to convince you all about the "rapture" when I know it is on God to cause the increase. I am not offended that you do not see His promise of John 14:1-3.However, I do wonder why everyone has missed my point by His grace that SwampFox's thread was more of reproving the wayward of the Pentecostal and Charismatics in seeking another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues than it having anything to do with the rapture. The idea of a refiner's fire goes to show judgment falling on the House of God whereas the rapture would be the urgency for those wayward to get their act togther before the appearing of the Bridegroom, but if there is no rapture, then there is no cause for alarm while everyone just wait for the son of perdition to reveal himself in the holy of holies. For not knowing when that time is... seems there are pretty defining moments in the great tribulation.There is once the order id given out to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem, that is the beginning of the seven year great tribulation. And halfway through that is when the son of perdition reveals himself. So no. This catching away thing is supposed to be to the marriage supper of the Lamb as going in the ark would be as the wrath of God falls on all the earth to try those on the earth when the devil knows he has a short time left. This is the seperation of the vessels of honour from the vessels of dishonour. The saints and all of their works will go into the earth... dust. They will not love their lives even unto death. That is referring to specific saints as one in need of the refiner's fire as their works go into the earth with them. Jesus shall restore the wayward to the path of righteousness for His name's sake as He will finish His work even in them.So there is a need for judgment to fall on the House of God as the despensation of the Gospel will go back to the Jews after the rapture, hence the 144,000 witnesses.If you are all abiding in Him, believing in the rapture is not a prerequisition to be raptured. Keeping the faith in Jesus Christ is. The call is to be ready and watching and being on guard.This forum has meat for the wayward that can help present every believer has a chaste bride to Christ, but alas, not everything shared on this forum is meat for discerning what is of faith and what is not. I say this: SwampFox's thread is more to that end than it is about debunking the rapture, but I leave that on God to cause the increase. May He help me to do this. Amen.
 

Christina

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well Im not offended that you believe rapture but Im am concerned for your soul that you follow man not God God never promised you a Rapture in his Word ...Men promise you a Rapture ... If you would take a moment to educate yourself on its inception you would see this ... I like many once believed this false doctrine also till I went about really wanting to see what God said of it instead of men to my surprise God doesn't say it ... Its a theory created by men ..by definition a theory can not be proved .. Only problem is God doesn't deal in theories of men ...He flat tells you tn Eze. he doesn't like this theory of men because it gives a false thing to depend on instead of trusting that he can keep you from tribulation his way ..Men had to devise a lie that they could escape having to be refined ..very sad because there is no escape except to know what will happen ..So you are not caught up in the delusion that will come upon the entire earth...The rapture people say dont worry if you dont understand the End times you will be gone anyway ..When did God ever say a third of his word wasnt important ??? No God says read my Words I have foretold you all things ..He tells us what will happen so we are prepared ..have our spiritual armor on ...The idea he wrote 1/3 of the bible to believers that were just going to be gone anyway is lunacy defies common sense ... What does God say about who is in danger Rev.9:4 "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads." Not those who are sealed with Gods truth He gives a command to only hurt those not sealed .. Yet men lie and say we must fly away so God can protect us ..He has already assured you he wont allow the sealed to be hurt ... What little faith men have in their father answer mr this if there were no believers here why would he have to give this command to Satan and his locust army ????????????I would ask you if you truly love your father take 5 min. and read where this lie originated http://www.scionofzion.com/pretrib_rapture_diehards.htm
 

HammerStone

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Funny that I am judged not on message, when the message is established at the start of both Malachi 3 and the study. If I am not on your message, than that is certainly no skin off my nose.One thing you're completely missing in the refiner's fire is that the bad is in with the good initially. This, of course, speaks for both the spiritual and the physical:[I do assume that folks READ the Bible when I post sections of chapters...think of it as study HW in the very least. I would submit that not understanding this bit of information sheds light on how much the actual lesson was understood. Always check things out, period.]
Matthew 13:30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
(In case your rapture believers out there missed it, I highlighted some key phrases.) Gather the tares, then gather the rest.
Matthew 13:38-43The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
So then, and only once the tares are cleared, will the righteous shine forth. This conditionally depends upon what was said above; when both the tares and the wheat are gathered at the harvest.
II Peter 3:10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
What, then, is the refiner's fire. As I have undoubtedly shone above, there is no special taking away of the wheat beforehand. Why not, appropriately, listen to the Words of the man that came in the spirit of Elijah?
Matthew 3:11-12I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
He will purge. The type is already here in the forgiveness of our sins. The bad is done away with, and the good continues on to life and to bless.
 

Pariah

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The rapture people say dont worry if you dont understand the End times you will be gone anyway ..When did God ever say a third of his word wasnt important ??? No God says read my Words I have foretold you all things ..He tells us what will happen so we are prepared ..have our spiritual armor on ...The idea he wrote 1/3 of the bible to believers that were just going to be gone anyway is lunacy defies common sense ... What does God say about who is in danger Rev.9:4 "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."Not those who are sealed with Gods truth He gives a command to only hurt those not sealed .. Yet men lie and say we must fly away so God can protect us ..He has already assured you he wont allow the sealed to be hurt ... What little faith men have in their father answer mr this if there were no believers here why would he have to give this command to Satan and his locust army ????????????
It did not say sealed with Gods truth. Since we prophesy in part and know in part, knowing everything cannot be the sealing of the saint, but coming to and beliving in Jesus is the only requirment given to be sealed with the promise of the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ. It is that seal of God that is in their forehead. That is the only seal promised by God given.
I would ask you if you truly love your father take 5 min. and read where this lie originated http://www.scionofzion.com/pretrib_rapture_diehards.htm
Those that love the Father will love Jesus to know that He is the Truth and that He has promised this and meant what He had said that where He was going and now is, He will come and bring us there. John 14:1-3 Just as the Holy Spirit was given by promise, and the Gentiles did not know about the promise of the Holy Spirit when they believed on Jesus when they heard the Gospel in Acts 10, but they received Him anyway: just as those that did not know of the promise of being taken to the Bridechamber will be taken anyway when found abiding in Him in keeping the faith.By His grace, my belief in the rapture is the motivation to warn every believer to be ready and found abiding in Him that they may be presented as a chaste bride to Christ. For wayward believers to not take heed, and think He is delaying in His coming, they will beat the servants with religious guantlets to doubt their salvation by faith in Jesus Christ of what He has done in having bought us as His and sealed as His so that they may labour in unbelief and thus ruling over them, making merchandise of them as well as becoming benefactors like those that sit in Moses' seat.The rapture is not the push as much as being ready in keeping the faith and abiding in Him is for no one will know when He will appeareth. The rapture serves as a warning that wayward believers should not wait for the signs of the great tribulation to be "sincere" about their walk with Christ; they should be going to Jesus and leaning on Him now in living this christian life by faith in the Son of God, thereby having a relationship with the Son of God whereas He will not say unto them, "I know ye not whence ye are..." as all relationships are based on trust and that is why the just shall live by faith... why the little children can freely come to Him and why the poor in spirit are blessed as it is God's turn now to do it what man failed to accomplish by the law. This is His glory and why Jesus' name is above every other name. The rapture will show the chosen from those not ready but the foolish virgins will be shining as witnesses after the rapture, albeit too late for the Marriage Supper asnthe prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance for wild living is yet still called son, but there will be a loss as there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, but God will help them get past that loss of all those that are His that comes out of the great tribulation by wiping the tears from their eyes.Still, why be like Esau? Let us heed the high calling of Christ and put off the works of darkness by His grace while there is still time.
 

Pariah

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Funny that I am judged not on message, when the message is established at the start of both Malachi 3 and the study. If I am not on your message, than that is certainly no skin off my nose.
No. You are not judged. The message is.
One thing you're completely missing in the refiner's fire is that the bad is in with the good initially. This, of course, speaks for both the spiritual and the physical:
Do keep in mind that everyone prophesy in part and know in part. Just because you read something and applied it in one way, does not mean that is the intent of the meaning of God's words. There is truth in God's words, but applying it from the prophetic standpoint to today is where wisdom has to come from the Lord.
[I do assume that folks READ the Bible when I post sections of chapters...think of it as study HW in the very least. I would submit that not understanding this bit of information sheds light on how much the actual lesson was understood. Always check things out, period.]
Everyone should check everything out by leaning on the Lord for discernment. Any believer can make a mistake, and leaders are targetted more often by the forces of darkness than they realize. Little do these wayward leaders notice when they are ceasing to preach Jesus Christ and him crucified only as they are distracted by other teachings taking the spotlight which edifies us not in the knowledge of Jesus Christ nor help us to discern what is of faith and what is not. Redeeming the time should be by His grace, on the leader's mind.
(In case your rapture believers out there missed it, I highlighted some key phrases.) Gather the tares, then gather the rest.So then, and only once the tares are cleared, will the righteous shine forth. This conditionally depends upon what was said above; when both the tares and the wheat are gathered at the harvest.
1 Corinthians 3:10-23 and Hebrews 12:1-29 is applicable to the burning of the tares. The vessels unto honour would shine forth as presented faultless to His glory at His appearing for the Marriage Supper of the Bridegroom and the Bride. Those vessels unto dishonour will have their works follow them into the earth as they are handed over to Satan to the destruction of the flesh in the hour that will try all on the earth as the devil will know He has a short time left once those doors are shut to the Bridechamber. Thus the Spirit and the Bride says to those that have ears.. Come... come to Jesus... narrow the way back to the straight gate to avoid false spirits and false prophets.
What, then, is the refiner's fire. As I have undoubtedly shone above, there is no special taking away of the wheat beforehand. Why not, appropriately, listen to the Words of the man that came in the spirit of Elijah?
If they are in the barn and then the tares are burned up, how is that not being taken away?
He will purge. The type is already here in the forgiveness of our sins. The bad is done away with, and the good continues on to life and to bless.
Don't you find it odd when one group needed to be given robes as if they were naked of their faith in Christ while another needed their robes washed clean by the Blood of the Lamb? The first group would be akin to the foolish virgins as labouring in unbelief while the second group is akin the prodigal sons for the sins of wild living needed to be washed away. Both groups that came out of the great tribulation has to have their tears wiped away from God sunce losing out of their first inheritance will cause many to be weeping and gnashing of teeth as Esau wept.
 

HammerStone

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Do keep in mind that everyone prophesy in part and know in part. Just because you read something and applied it in one way, does not mean that is the intent of the meaning of God's words. There is truth in God's words, but applying it from the prophetic standpoint to today is where wisdom has to come from the Lord.
Right, but we're not talking people, we're talking the Word of God. So this point needs to be discarded, as it's not relevant even to what we are talking about here.Not much else to say to your comments, it's really like a broken record at this point.
If they are in the barn and then the tares are burned up, how is that not being taken away?
Because all of this takes place at the SAME TIME! (No clue how else to say it any simpler - simultaneously, concurrently, synchronously, etc.) The rapture clearly maintains that the believers are whisked away, then some of those that are left are then saved, all the while the antichrist runs amok. Finally, the believers are brought back and judgment given.
 

Pariah

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Right, but we're not talking people, we're talking the Word of God. So this point needs to be discarded, as it's not relevant even to what we are talking about here.Not much else to say to your comments, it's really like a broken record at this point.Because all of this takes place at the SAME TIME! (No clue how else to say it any simpler - simultaneously, concurrently, synchronously, etc.) The rapture clearly maintains that the believers are whisked away, then some of those that are left are then saved, all the while the antichrist runs amok. Finally, the believers are brought back and judgment given.
That is your view of the rapture and maybe that is what some of those that believe in the rapture are saying, but that is not what I am saying at all. Jesus prophesied the falling away of the faith to such a point that before His appearing, only a few will find the faith. That means the majority of believers at that time are wayward and not abiding in Him as in not all of the believers will be taken. That warning about false prophets was given to the believers... not to the world.
 

HammerStone

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I'm sorry, but you make no sense, absolutely no sense. I don't know if you try to create red herrings, or just choose to ignore what is written, or simply contradict your own arguments.The entire lesson is about those that don't pay attention to the Word. These are the ones that place themselves in positions of authority claiming to teach about this or that like they know something beyond what is said in the Word.If you want to discuss the Word, I shall be glad to oblige. Otherwise, I am not interested in carrying on a specious discussion that revolves around completely ambiguous and amorphous positions.
 

Christina

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That is your view of the rapture and maybe that is what some of those that believe in the rapture are saying, but that is not what I am saying at all. Jesus prophesied the falling away of the faith to such a point that before His appearing, only a few will find the faith. That means the majority of believers at that time are wayward and not abiding in Him as in not all of the believers will be taken. That warning about false prophets was given to the believers... not to the world.
THERE IS NO RAPTURE WRITTEN no secret coming There are few believers left you are correct in that. Why? Because they believe a lie a delusion and are following Antichrist ... NOT because they are raptured/flying away ...It is because of this very Rapture lie of Satan's on men that they will be following the wrong christ They are Not taught he comes first as 2 thess. says No No! they stop teaching believers at the mistake in 1 thess. that Paul corredted and rhen tell people you do Not need to understand the rest of the End Times you will not be here Its this very Rapture doctrine that cause few to make it to the end It came from a teen age girl that went insane not from GodSatan does love his die hard Rapture believers they are under a delusion of his lies already and he hasnt even gotten started yet.... Blessed is he that overcomes until the End for they shall reign and rule with Christ overcome what? Satan his the false prophet all his lies and the End Time delusion those that know the truth that Antichrist will come first claiming to be christ. All men must choose a side if you dont know who is coming or when you will follow the wrong christ.. How do you avoid this? Read his Word ...do not trust your salvation to the dream of a crazy teen age girl and the lies of men...13And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Endure til the End not fly away
 
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