Temporal Salvation?

[Netchaplain]

The most understandable and encouraging attribute concerning salvation is that of its permanency, after all, it is called “eternal salvation” (Heb 5:9). What part of salvation is temporary, seeing that one of the meanings of redemption is that of being saved from “eternal damnation” (Mar 3:29). Is it a sensible truism that one can be eternally saved and then not eternally saved? Thus being temporarily saved from “everlasting punishment” (Mat 25:46) is clearly a concept of an oxymoron?

 

[Randy Kluth]

The most understandable and encouraging attribute concerning salvation is that of its permanency, after all, it is called “eternal salvation” (Heb 5:9). What part of salvation is temporary, seeing that one of the meanings of redemption is that of being saved from “eternal damnation” (Mar 3:29). Is it a sensible truism that one can be eternally saved and then not eternally saved? Thus being temporarily saved from “everlasting punishment” (Mat 25:46) is clearly a concept of an oxymoron?

Yes, but in the greater context of this forum I've been declaring that there is another sense in which "salvation" was temporary, and that was when the Law was in effect. This takes hold of a more generic form of "salvation" than is often referred to. Paul emphasized "salvation" in its technical "saved" sense, ie as a "done deal." For Paul, eternal salvation was what was important and what Christ came to do. Therefore, he would just call it, shorthand, "salvation," expecting believers to know that he was referring to Christ's form of salvation, namely eternal salvation.

But in my mind there is no debate that there was a temporal salvation under the Law, and it was not an oxymoron. "Salvation," in its generic, biblical sense referred to deliverance from enemy armies, from natural disasters, from plagues, and from a great variety of curses. In the list of the "curses of the Law" on Mt. Ebal Moses gave Israel warning about these curses of disobeying the Law. Averting these curses was indeed a matter of obtaining "temporal salvation."

If you wish to understand what I mean by "temporal salvation" you will have to define it outside of Christian salvation. Christ indeed brought eternal salvation, but before Christ, the Law brought temporary deliverance. A most obvious example might be Hezekiah's deliverance from the Assyrians. He was "saved" from the Assyrians. This was a "temporal salvation" because not soon afterwards Babylon invaded and all Israel was defeated.

Everything the Law did for Israel was temporary, because it sustained Israel only until the hope of eternal salvation was realized. All forms of atonement under the Law was a temporary provision until the next sin occurred, and atonement would be needed again. No atonement was "final" until Christ provided his own sacrifice, which never needs to be offered again. He lives forever to intercede for us.

 

[Renniks]

The most understandable and encouraging attribute concerning salvation is that of its permanency, after all, it is called “eternal salvation” (Heb 5:9). What part of salvation is temporary, seeing that one of the meanings of redemption is that of being saved from “eternal damnation” (Mar 3:29). Is it a sensible truism that one can be eternally saved and then not eternally saved? Thus being temporarily saved from “everlasting punishment” (Mat 25:46) is clearly a concept of an oxymoron?

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"

"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. "

It's eternal salvation if we remain in the faith.

 

[Randy Kluth]

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"

"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. "

It's eternal salvation if we remain in the faith.

Who is even speaking of a heresy called "temporal salvation?"

 

[Renniks]

Who is even speaking of a heresy called "temporal salvation?"

Apparently, the OP is, seeing as how that's the title. How is it a heresy, when we have all these warnings about falling away?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Apparently, the OP is, seeing as how that's the title. How is it a heresy, when we have all these warnings about falling away?

Yea, I didn't know where the original poster was coming from? On its face, those who are pursuing only the perishable things of this world are doing so in vanity. Only in Christ is there eternal life. That alone is true salvation.

 

[Netchaplain]

Yes, but in the greater context of this forum I've been declaring that there is another sense in which "salvation" was temporary, and that was when the Law was in effect.

Hi and God bless! I think I see the Law a bit different, in that when the Mosaic Law was in effect for Jews who believed in God (many didn't trust Him) it did provide deliverance (e.g. forgiveness, Num 15); and the way of forgiveness merely became a more involved method--through Christ.

 

[Netchaplain]

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"

"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God."

It's eternal salvation if we remain in the faith.

Hi and I somewhat agree, i.e. those who are not reborn will not continue in their false profession of faith. If they do not "endure until the end" they did not endure at all, because endure means to remain. "Departing from the living God" to me merely is the same as any apostasy, which manifests they were not reborn. An apostatizing is something a false professor eventually does, without fail! Thus to me apostates are "departing" from a false profession in the living God.

 

[Renniks]

Hi and I somewhat agree, i.e. those who are not reborn will not continue in their false profession of faith. If they do not "endure until the end" they did not endure at all, because endure means to remain. "Departing from the living God" to me merely is the same as any apostasy, which manifests they were not reborn. An apostatizing is something a false professor eventually does, without fail! Thus to me apostates are "departing" from a false profession in the living God.

You can not depart from something you never had.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Hi and God bless! I think I see the Law a bit different, in that when the Mosaic Law was in effect for Jews who believed in God (many didn't trust Him) it did provide deliverance (e.g. forgiveness, Num 15); and the way of forgiveness merely became a more involved method--through Christ.

On the face of it, doesn't sound much different than the way I put it. Perhaps I don't really have enough info to understand where you differ?

I do believe the Law was given to the whole nation, irrespective of who had faith. But I also believe it was designed to be operated by faith. So those who obeyed the Law were a mixed breed, but generally, all could obey the Law in some measure, and that would secure safety and prosperity for the nation.

So when I say the Law was meant to be operated by faith, I think that's true, even though the Law was given to those whose faith was mixed. If enough people kept the Law in faith, the nation as a whole could remain strong and healthy. Individuals who had mixed faith could be judged separately from the nation as a whole.

 

[justbyfaith]

Gal 3:12, And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Gal 3:12, And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

That's true. The Law condemned mankind, because all are sinners. But in operating the Law *through faith* men were able to obtain temporary atonement, and thus remain in covenant relationship with God. The question is: What do you do with those Scriptures? Do you not realize that the Law was given to those of faith to operate it by faith so as to obtain the mercy that comes by faith? The Law could not atone permanently, but it did provide a temporary reprieve.

Do you realize that when Paul said that those who obey the Law "shall live by it" that it was rewarding men who were obedient to the Law? It was a reward for their righteousness, but not an eternal reward since under the Law an eternal reward was denied.

Man was condemned no matter how much righteousness he produced--even the righteousness of faith under the Law. No matter what he did, by faith, that was right, he could not obtain eternal salvation until after Christ had provided his atonement for sin.

And so, denying that there was *any* righteousness under the Law is a lie, or at best, a misunderstanding. God called men to obey His word, even when it was under the Law. It was just that the Law did not provide faith that leads to salvation. And that's what Paul was talking about. The "faith" Paul was talking about was faith for salvation. "Faith," for Paul, was shorthand for "faith for salvation." And that is the whole point.

Paul did not deny righteousness or faith under the Law. He just denied it could lead to eternal life until after Christ had provided an eternal atonement. That did not come by the Law, but rather, by Christ. Let's get it straight!

 

[Netchaplain]

You can not depart from something you never had.

Very true and a great point! What apostates depart from is a false profession, manifesting they had no faith, which always endures.

 

[justbyfaith]

But in operating the Law *through faith*

And there, you just contradicted the scripture that was given.

And so, denying that there was *any* righteousness under the Law is a lie, or at best, a misunderstanding.

There is righteousness under the law; only, it is as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6, Matthew 23:25-28).

 

[Joseph77]

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"

"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. "

It's eternal salvation if we remain in the faith.

In western religions, including Christianity (at least so-called), and especially in English western thoughts and teachings,

there is a lot far from Biblical thought and teachings and truth - not something new or right in English western thoughts and teachings, but disturbing and instead of what God Says and Means in His Word and Purpose and Salvation in Christ Jesus.

As long as someone puts their trust in (believes) English western thinking and teachings, they have no reason to change or to repent from those kinds of mis-interpretations and errors. Whether this affects the rest of their beliefs or not, or their life or not, I don't know or don't know how much.

 

[Netchaplain]

There are two groups of people professing Christianity. Those who genuinely profess the faith by unceasingly manifesting it by their continued lifestyle of godliness; and those who falsely profess faith in Christianity (Jas 2:18) who cease from appearing to lives godly. Thus what the latter departs from is not faith, but from the doctrine of faith, which they never truly entered into.

 

[Joseph77]

In the original language, as far as I could find in the word studies, etc, it was the same faith - and the same word used for the faith.

 

[Randy Kluth]

There are two groups of people professing Christianity. Those who genuinely profess the faith by unceasingly manifesting it by their continued lifestyle of godliness; and those who falsely profess faith in Christianity (Jas 2:18) who cease from appearing to lives godly. Thus what the latter departs from is not faith, but from the doctrine of faith, which they never truly entered into.

I think you can have both. You can have people who start out in faith, and then apostacize. And you can have people who started out in a false presentation of faith. We have that today. We have conservative Christians, liberal Christians, and cultic Christians.

 

[Netchaplain]

I think you can have both. You can people who start out in faith, and then apostacize

I know what you mean, but in my understanding apostasy is eventually manifesting you didn't truly believe but merely made a show that you believed, as you've stated, "a false presentation of faith." Those who truly believe "endure unto the end."

 

[Joseph77]

Unless they choose to leave. God does not take their free will away, as if they could not choose to depart the true faith , though they perish as a result, as God Says Plainly.