Testing Your Faith

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newnature

Active Member
Mar 24, 2011
741
132
43
The story of the Bible begins with God creating a beautiful world and then sharing it with all of his creatures. God appoints Adam and Eve to rule the world on his behalf. God gives them access to his wisdom and life, but then tells them that there’s one tree they can’t eat from, because it will lead to death. So, they have a choice about how to rule with God, like a test. It is a test. But, isn’t that kind of cruel for God to test them? Not all tests are bad, say there’s a king, who chooses you to fulfill a royal task, because he wants to know if you are trustworthy. But let’s say there’s a rebel, who hates the king and you, and he tries to convince you, that you would be better off not doing what the king asks. The rebel is setting a trap, so a test could be an opportunity or a trap and the difference is whether the one testing you, has your best interest in mind. Both types of tests appear in the beginning of the Bible, God tells them to eat of the tree of life and not the forbidden tree.

This is God’s test of loyalty, God wants to rule the world with humans as his partners, they will need to trust his wisdom over their own. But then a rebel comes, and tests them to eat of that forbidden tree, the rebel seizes this opportunity and twists it, so he can lead the humans into exile and ultimately death. This rebel turns the test into a trap, but after the humans fail, God promises that one day a human will come, who will pass the test and defeat the rebel. As the story moves on, God gives a couple named Abraham and Sarah, an opportunity to trust him by leaving their family behind, to go to a new land, where God will use them to restore his blessing to all people. So this is a test, at first things go well, but Abraham quickly fails. Abraham lies to protect himself and he and Sarah scheme to get a son their own way by abusing one of their servants.

God doesn’t give up on Abraham, he gives him one final opportunity, a test to prove his loyalty. God asks Abraham to go up onto a mountain and offer his son as a sacrifice and Abraham does it, but in the last moment, God stops him and provides a substitute animal in the place of his son. God then says he will fulfill his promise through Abraham’s family, because he passed this test. Abraham passed this test, but he hasn’t proven to be a fully trustworthy partner. We’re still waiting for someone who can pass the ultimate test, and as the family of Abraham grows and becomes a nation, God continues to test them. When the Israelites wander in the wilderness for forty years, they have lots of opportunities to trust in God to provide water or daily bread. But instead, they blame God and even say that he trapped them in the desert to kill them.

So the rest of Israel’s story in the scriptures is pretty much the same, the Israelites don’t trust in God and his promise, they’re not loyal and eventually the whole nation fails. Humans have an amazing opportunity to partner with God, but no one is really qualified, so all of this brings us forward to Jesus. There’s a story where Jesus goes into the wilderness for forty day and forty nights without food or water and there he meets a sinister creature, who tries to trap him. But Jesus trusts in God’s wisdom and he passes the test. Then later there’s a story about Jesus going to pray with some friends and God commissions him to go up to Jerusalem and give up his life. On the night of his arrest, Jesus took his friends and went to a garden and he told them to pray, because tonight is the great test. Jesus prayed to God, please let this test pass from me, but not my desire, rather may your desire be done.

In this garden, Jesus shows us what passing the test looks like, he trusted in God’s wisdom, he loved others more than himself and he confronted evil with good, even though it cost him his life. Jesus offered his own life as a sacrifice to cover for all of the failed tests of his people Israel and of all humanity. Jesus passed the ultimate test on behalf of us all, but that doesn’t mean everything is going to be great in our lives. Let’s be honest, we’re going to face our own tests every day. Jesus said every generation of his followers would have their own tests, that will force them to trust God in radical new ways. These tests can be difficult and often painful, but a test from a good God is an opportunity. This is why James, a leader in the early Jesus movement said, that we should be grateful when we face tests and trials, because they offer us a gift, it’s an opportunity to surrender to God’s wisdom and to become more like Jesus, the one who loved us and who passed the test on our behalf.

Job begins with a story that takes place up in the heavens, God’s there with these angelic creatures called the sons of God and they’re all their reporting for duty. God points out Job, his servant, showing how righteous and good he is. Then one of these angelic creatures approaches, he’s referred to in Hebrew as, “the Satan.” The Satan, who is this? This is actually a title which means, the one who is opposed. Out of this whole crew, the Satan is the one questioning how God is running the world. The Satan proposes that Job might not actually love God, that he’s only a good person, because God rewards him. If God were to take away all of the good things he gave to Job, then we would see his true colors, maybe he’s obeying, just to get what he wants.

God agrees to this experiment, and allows the Satan to inflict suffering on Job, and Job losses everyone and everything that he cares about. It’s devastating, Job deserves none of this, God himself said so. In the midst of all this suffering, Job still praises God, but as time goes on, he unleashes this poem that reveals this devastation, it’s a long elaborate curse on the day that he was born. Some of Job’s friends come to visit him, to offer their help, and all of them are like Job, you must have done something horribly wrong to deserve this. After all, we know God is just, we know the world is ordered by God’s justice and fairness, you must be getting what you deserve. Job’s friends keep speculating about why God might have sent such suffering and they even start making up lists of hypothetical sins that Job must have committed, but after each accusation, Job defends his innocence and Job is innocent.

Job’s on an emotional roller coaster, at some moments, he’s very confident that God is still wise and just, in other moments, he’s doubting God’s goodness. Job even comes to accuse God of being reckless, unfair and corrupt, he demands that God come and explain himself in person and God does so, God comes in the form of a great storm cloud. Now, God doesn’t give Job a direct answer, he doesn’t tell Job about the conversation with the Satan, he does something very different, God takes Job on a virtual tour of the universe. God shows Job how grand the world is and he asked him, if he’s even capable of running it or understanding it, just for a day. God shows how much detail there is in the world, he pays attention to the beauty and operations of the universe in ways, that Job haven’t even imagined and in places that he will never see. God shows Job two wondrous beasts and brags about how great they are. God says they’re not evil, they’re a part of his good world.

From Job’s point of view, it looks like God is not just, but God’s perspective is infinitely bigger, he’s dynamically interacting with a whole universe of complexity, when he makes decisions, this is what God calls his wisdom. Job couldn’t comprehend this kind of complexity, even if he wanted to. This leaves Job in a place of humility. Job never learned why he suffered and yet, he’s able to live in peace and in the fear of the Lord, but God restores to him, double everything he had lost. Is this a reward, did Job pass this elaborate test? No. Job losing everything was not a punishment and so now, getting it back isn’t a reward. God in his wisdom, decided to give Job a gift. Job is now the kind of person, who no matter what comes, good or bad, he can trust God’s wisdom.
 

rvmb

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2025
1,252
334
83
Adelaide
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
The story of the Bible begins with God creating a beautiful world and then sharing it with all of his creatures. God appoints Adam and Eve to rule the world on his behalf. God gives them access to his wisdom and life, but then tells them that there’s one tree they can’t eat from, because it will lead to death. So, they have a choice about how to rule with God, like a test. It is a test. But, isn’t that kind of cruel for God to test them? Not all tests are bad, say there’s a king, who chooses you to fulfill a royal task, because he wants to know if you are trustworthy. But let’s say there’s a rebel, who hates the king and you, and he tries to convince you, that you would be better off not doing what the king asks. The rebel is setting a trap, so a test could be an opportunity or a trap and the difference is whether the one testing you, has your best interest in mind. Both types of tests appear in the beginning of the Bible, God tells them to eat of the tree of life and not the forbidden tree.

This is God’s test of loyalty, God wants to rule the world with humans as his partners, they will need to trust his wisdom over their own. But then a rebel comes, and tests them to eat of that forbidden tree, the rebel seizes this opportunity and twists it, so he can lead the humans into exile and ultimately death. This rebel turns the test into a trap, but after the humans fail, God promises that one day a human will come, who will pass the test and defeat the rebel. As the story moves on, God gives a couple named Abraham and Sarah, an opportunity to trust him by leaving their family behind, to go to a new land, where God will use them to restore his blessing to all people. So this is a test, at first things go well, but Abraham quickly fails. Abraham lies to protect himself and he and Sarah scheme to get a son their own way by abusing one of their servants.

God doesn’t give up on Abraham, he gives him one final opportunity, a test to prove his loyalty. God asks Abraham to go up onto a mountain and offer his son as a sacrifice and Abraham does it, but in the last moment, God stops him and provides a substitute animal in the place of his son. God then says he will fulfill his promise through Abraham’s family, because he passed this test. Abraham passed this test, but he hasn’t proven to be a fully trustworthy partner. We’re still waiting for someone who can pass the ultimate test, and as the family of Abraham grows and becomes a nation, God continues to test them. When the Israelites wander in the wilderness for forty years, they have lots of opportunities to trust in God to provide water or daily bread. But instead, they blame God and even say that he trapped them in the desert to kill them.

So the rest of Israel’s story in the scriptures is pretty much the same, the Israelites don’t trust in God and his promise, they’re not loyal and eventually the whole nation fails. Humans have an amazing opportunity to partner with God, but no one is really qualified, so all of this brings us forward to Jesus. There’s a story where Jesus goes into the wilderness for forty day and forty nights without food or water and there he meets a sinister creature, who tries to trap him. But Jesus trusts in God’s wisdom and he passes the test. Then later there’s a story about Jesus going to pray with some friends and God commissions him to go up to Jerusalem and give up his life. On the night of his arrest, Jesus took his friends and went to a garden and he told them to pray, because tonight is the great test. Jesus prayed to God, please let this test pass from me, but not my desire, rather may your desire be done.

In this garden, Jesus shows us what passing the test looks like, he trusted in God’s wisdom, he loved others more than himself and he confronted evil with good, even though it cost him his life. Jesus offered his own life as a sacrifice to cover for all of the failed tests of his people Israel and of all humanity. Jesus passed the ultimate test on behalf of us all, but that doesn’t mean everything is going to be great in our lives. Let’s be honest, we’re going to face our own tests every day. Jesus said every generation of his followers would have their own tests, that will force them to trust God in radical new ways. These tests can be difficult and often painful, but a test from a good God is an opportunity. This is why James, a leader in the early Jesus movement said, that we should be grateful when we face tests and trials, because they offer us a gift, it’s an opportunity to surrender to God’s wisdom and to become more like Jesus, the one who loved us and who passed the test on our behalf.

Job begins with a story that takes place up in the heavens, God’s there with these angelic creatures called the sons of God and they’re all their reporting for duty. God points out Job, his servant, showing how righteous and good he is. Then one of these angelic creatures approaches, he’s referred to in Hebrew as, “the Satan.” The Satan, who is this? This is actually a title which means, the one who is opposed. Out of this whole crew, the Satan is the one questioning how God is running the world. The Satan proposes that Job might not actually love God, that he’s only a good person, because God rewards him. If God were to take away all of the good things he gave to Job, then we would see his true colors, maybe he’s obeying, just to get what he wants.

God agrees to this experiment, and allows the Satan to inflict suffering on Job, and Job losses everyone and everything that he cares about. It’s devastating, Job deserves none of this, God himself said so. In the midst of all this suffering, Job still praises God, but as time goes on, he unleashes this poem that reveals this devastation, it’s a long elaborate curse on the day that he was born. Some of Job’s friends come to visit him, to offer their help, and all of them are like Job, you must have done something horribly wrong to deserve this. After all, we know God is just, we know the world is ordered by God’s justice and fairness, you must be getting what you deserve. Job’s friends keep speculating about why God might have sent such suffering and they even start making up lists of hypothetical sins that Job must have committed, but after each accusation, Job defends his innocence and Job is innocent.

Job’s on an emotional roller coaster, at some moments, he’s very confident that God is still wise and just, in other moments, he’s doubting God’s goodness. Job even comes to accuse God of being reckless, unfair and corrupt, he demands that God come and explain himself in person and God does so, God comes in the form of a great storm cloud. Now, God doesn’t give Job a direct answer, he doesn’t tell Job about the conversation with the Satan, he does something very different, God takes Job on a virtual tour of the universe. God shows Job how grand the world is and he asked him, if he’s even capable of running it or understanding it, just for a day. God shows how much detail there is in the world, he pays attention to the beauty and operations of the universe in ways, that Job haven’t even imagined and in places that he will never see. God shows Job two wondrous beasts and brags about how great they are. God says they’re not evil, they’re a part of his good world.

From Job’s point of view, it looks like God is not just, but God’s perspective is infinitely bigger, he’s dynamically interacting with a whole universe of complexity, when he makes decisions, this is what God calls his wisdom. Job couldn’t comprehend this kind of complexity, even if he wanted to. This leaves Job in a place of humility. Job never learned why he suffered and yet, he’s able to live in peace and in the fear of the Lord, but God restores to him, double everything he had lost. Is this a reward, did Job pass this elaborate test? No. Job losing everything was not a punishment and so now, getting it back isn’t a reward. God in his wisdom, decided to give Job a gift. Job is now the kind of person, who no matter what comes, good or bad, he can trust God’s wisdom.
To be saved, the trust required 'today' is in the death/burial/resurrection of Christ for the forgiveness of your sins Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4.
How would a believer test that faith ?
 

newnature

Active Member
Mar 24, 2011
741
132
43
To be saved, the trust required 'today' is in the death/burial/resurrection of Christ for the forgiveness of your sins Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4.
How would a believer test that faith ?
Paul’s core conviction is that fundamental change happens to us, when our very sense of who we are is completely revolutionized behavior, follows our sense of identity. Don’t live like the Gentiles, because we are something new, we are all new kinds of humans now. Ephesians 4:17-32. This is Paul’s bleak portrait that he paints of who these Christians are no longer. What Paul’s getting at with this description, he’s describing a state of human beings who’ve lost sensitivity to evil, about moral formation, moral knowledge, moral sensitivity, don't be someone who’s become calloused morally for one thing.
 

rvmb

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2025
1,252
334
83
Adelaide
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Paul’s core conviction is that fundamental change happens to us, when our very sense of who we are is completely revolutionized behavior, follows our sense of identity. Don’t live like the Gentiles, because we are something new, we are all new kinds of humans now. Ephesians 4:17-32. This is Paul’s bleak portrait that he paints of who these Christians are no longer. What Paul’s getting at with this description, he’s describing a state of human beings who’ve lost sensitivity to evil, about moral formation, moral knowledge, moral sensitivity, don't be someone who’s become calloused morally for one thing.
Are you a saved sinner ?
Do you claim you no longer sin in some way ?