Thanking God

[Justadude]

At one of the blogs I read the author regularly has pieces about how after some tragedy, the survivors thank God for their survival or some other aspect of the outcome. Invariably the same questions get asked by non-theists like me, and in a post yesterday the blogger summed up these questions in the following way:

1. If God made orchids and butterflies and robins, He must also have created pediatric cancers, brain-eating amoebae, and every plague that ever existed. What sense does it make to only credit the Creator Of All with the nice stuff?

2. For an all-powerful God to heal us, He first has to injure us or make us sick — and He does exactly that relentlessly and with startling efficiency. When believers recover from a scary illness, where’s the logic in praising the entity that made them sick in the first place? Isn’t that akin to, from the burn ward, thanking the arsonist who firebombed your house but then handed you a pail of water?

3. There’s a pridefulness in thanking God that apparently doesn’t bother the faithful, but that, to others, often looks self-important and unseemly. If you believe you are so special and so full of trust in the Almighty that He saved you, the implication is that people who died fell short. Even if you didn’t mean to, you’re suggesting that their faith was insufficiently strong; their prayers too feeble; their suffering not important enough to warrant divine mercy.​

Those seem like reasonable questions to me. The only thing I would add is to question the concept of praying for God to intervene in the first place. Is the prayer/request an effort to change God's mind and get him to do something he wasn't otherwise going to do? If not, and the outcome was predetermined as part of "God's plan", what's the point of praying for intervention?

 

[Heart2Soul]

At one of the blogs I read the author regularly has pieces about how after some tragedy, the survivors thank God for their survival or some other aspect of the outcome. Invariably the same questions get asked by non-theists like me, and in a post yesterday the blogger summed up these questions in the following way:

1. If God made orchids and butterflies and robins, He must also have created pediatric cancers, brain-eating amoebae, and every plague that ever existed. What sense does it make to only credit the Creator Of All with the nice stuff?

2. For an all-powerful God to heal us, He first has to injure us or make us sick — and He does exactly that relentlessly and with startling efficiency. When believers recover from a scary illness, where’s the logic in praising the entity that made them sick in the first place? Isn’t that akin to, from the burn ward, thanking the arsonist who firebombed your house but then handed you a pail of water?

3. There’s a pridefulness in thanking God that apparently doesn’t bother the faithful, but that, to others, often looks self-important and unseemly. If you believe you are so special and so full of trust in the Almighty that He saved you, the implication is that people who died fell short. Even if you didn’t mean to, you’re suggesting that their faith was insufficiently strong; their prayers too feeble; their suffering not important enough to warrant divine mercy.​

Those seem like reasonable questions to me. The only thing I would add is to question the concept of praying for God to intervene in the first place. Is the prayer/request an effort to change God's mind and get him to do something he wasn't otherwise going to do? If not, and the outcome was predetermined as part of "God's plan", what's the point of praying for intervention?

The consequences of sin resulted in the curse of sin and death.
The flesh became cursed to die and return to dust at the end of it's life.
The person who presented those questions wrongfully claim God created sickness and disease....that is error. Sickness and disease is the manifestation of the curse of sin and death.
Now God did himself send plagues on those who were persecuting His chosen .
Remember the woman with issue of blood that touched Jesus garment....Luke 13:11?
She had a "spirit of infirmity:....meaning an evil spirit was in her flesh manifesting this disease.
This is hard for many to wonder and ask God why did you allow this....
He may have allowed it....but it came from Satan as in the Book of Job

 

[Joseph77]

Ezekiel 3:18
If I say to the wicked man, 'You will surely die,' but you do not warn him or speak out to warn him from his wicked way to save his life, that wicked man will die in his iniquity, and I will hold you responsible for his blood.

Ezekiel 3:20
Now if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. If you did not warn him, he will die in his sin, and the righteous acts he did will not be remembered. And I will hold you responsible for his blood.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins is the one who will die. A son will not bear the iniquity of the father, and a father will not bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will fall upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked man will fall upon him.

Repent, stop sinning,

Turn to the Creator, for His Kingdom is at hand.

 

[Joseph77]

"SICKNESS IS A COMMON occurrence in life. For us to know how to keep our body in a condition which glorifies God, we first must know what attitude to take towards sickness, how to make use of it, and also how to be healed. Because sickness is so prevalent we cannot avoid having a serious lack in our life if we do not know how to deal with it.

Sickness and sin ​

The Bible discloses a close relationship between sickness and sin. The ultimate consequence of sin is death. Sickness lies between sin and death. It is the sequel to sin and the prologue to death. If there were no sin in the world, there would be neither sickness nor death. Had not Adam sinned, sickness would not have come upon the earth: of this we can be most certain. Hence as with every other woe, sickness was ushered in by sin.
Human beings are made up of two natures: the non-corporeal and the corporeal. Both suffered from man’s fall. The spirit and soul were damaged by sin and the body was! invaded by sickness. The sin of the spirit and soul together with the sickness of the body attest that man must die."


From "The Body" , a chapter from Watchman Nee

 

[Justadude]

The consequences of sin resulted in the curse of sin and death.
The flesh became cursed to die and return to dust at the end of it's life.
The person who presented those questions wrongfully claim God created sickness and disease....that is error. Sickness and disease is the manifestation of the curse of sin and death.

So all the pathogens evolved by completely natural means?

Now God did himself send plagues on those who were persecuting His chosen .
Remember the woman with issue of blood that touched Jesus garment....Luke 13:11?
She had a "spirit of infirmity:....meaning an evil spirit was in her flesh manifesting this disease.
This is hard for many to wonder and ask God why did you allow this....
He may have allowed it....but it came from Satan as in the Book of Job

So God allows Satan to do bad things like infect and kill people, but God also occasionally decides to intervene and heal some people, but not others?

Also, keep in mind this isn't just about sickness. Some Christians thank God for allegedly sparing them from natural disasters and other tragic events.

 

[Joseph77]

The penalty for sin is death.

 

[Heart2Soul]

So all the pathogens evolved by completely natural means?


So God allows Satan to do bad things like infect and kill people, but God also occasionally decides to intervene and heal some people, but not others?

I know it is hard to understand for me as well but I can't question His Sovereignty.....just like Job said.....You have all power to give and to take away because all things belong to you.

Did God give Satan permission to attack Job?
Some pastors preach if you believe God gave Satan permission to attack Job, you will believe God ordains all sickness, death and loss. Jesus clearly stated the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy and that He came to give life and life abundant (John 10:10). Believing God ordained all your sickness, the untimely death of a loved one, or other loss is certainly error. It sets you up for an estranged relationship with your Heavenly Father and a walk with no authority; just what the Enemy wants. However, the Bible teaches us the storms come to the wise and the foolish alike (Matthew 7:24-27). Your walk as a believer will not be trouble-free. Christ’s promise to us is for a peace that transcends all understanding if we keep our minds and hearts on Him (Philippians 4:7).

Yes, God lifted the hedge of protection around Job after drawing Satan’s attention to Job in the first place.

Does God test us?
If Satan rules this world and God is not to blame for our disease, losses and calamity, how do we reconcile the following verses?

• Psalm 11:5 “The Lord tests the righteous,”
• Proverbs 17:3 “The crucible is for silver, the furnace for gold and the Lord test hearts,”
• Jeremiah 11:20, 20:12 “O Lord of hosts, who judges righteously, who tests the hearts and minds,” and
• 1 Thessalonians 2:4 “So we speak, not to please man, but to please God who tests our hearts.”

In both examples where Satan petitions to attack Job, God not only pointed Job out in the first place but also set the guidelines for the trials. This is likely for a number of reasons, which may include:

• God had faith in His servant,
• God desired to see Job grow in his understanding and relationship with Him, and
• God held divine intention for Job’s example to be immortalized in Scripture for the development of future believers.

The Father, in His sovereignty, places the limitations upon the attack. 1 Corinthians 10:13 states,

“There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.”

Here, “temptation” is the same word as “test” in the Greek. If read with this understanding, it is not simply the test of temptation to our fleshly desires, but also the tests of a distracting and corrupting natural world, false understanding and tests through physical adversity and loss.

Are all tests and trials from Satan? No. This brings us back to reaping and sowing and false thinking. So not all tribulation is from the devil, but still, what about protection and Satan’s agency? Does God lower the hedge to test our hearts?

Doesn’t God promise to protect us?
So, how does this work? Does God actually employ or allow Satan to test us through trials? Does He remove protection around us to allow in these attacks? Yes, God even has made a covenant of protection with those who walk with him in Psalm 91. Surely this protection is not completely removed all at once, just as Job’s account illustrates (Job 1:10). Otherwise, Satan would sweep us all to the grave before we could grow one more moment in the Lord!

From betrayal by his brothers, false accusations and imprisonment, Joseph faced many attacks, but in each instance, he kept his eyes on the Lord. As he told his brothers, “But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.” (Genesis 50:20)

Do our chances for testing rise and fall with the righteousness of our walk? Adam and Eve were seduced in the garden. They possibly walked in the closest proximity with God of anyone until Christ and still fell to their own desires through a simple lie. If you live for the flesh, you will set your heart upon the flesh (Romans 8:5-17).

Even Christ suffered. He was tempted, accused, betrayed, beaten and crucified. He suffered hunger and weariness and grief. As Romans 8:17 states, “We suffer with Him in order that we may be glorified with Him.”

During his ordeal, Job did not see why God allowed his misfortune, however if we look at the result, he and his friends grew in their knowledge of God’s character as a result of Job’s trials. God is much more interested in your spiritual development than He is your material well-being.

Wasn’t it God that struck Job?
Was it “the fire of God” (Job 1:16) that burned up Job’s flocks and servants? No, God did not stretch forth His hand and burn up Job’s flocks in a lightning storm; Satan did. Well then, what about in Job 2:3 where God says Satan moved God against Job to “destroy him without cause.” Does Satan have influence over our Father? No. Just as with the crucifixion of our Lord, Satan blindly plays right into God’s plan here in Job. As God says, “Have you considered my servant, Job?” God draws Satan’s attention onto the subject of the next test. In Satan’s rabid distaste for humanity, he charges headlong after the bait and by the end of the story, Job has been magnified.

Is Satan a fool to participate in our downfall then?
Unfortunately not. If his fiery darts often derail and distract the most dedicated Christians, imagine his success with those who are in the world and have not sought to be set apart from it. As illustrated in 1 Peter 5:8, Satan prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Every now and again, a Christian may resist the Enemy and win a victory, but as the Accuser, suffice it to say Satan already has a low opinion of our character. This is why it is so important for us to grow in our identity as sons and daughters, made in His image!

The Butterfly: A Map of Testing, Death and Rebirth
“But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:” (Job 12:7 KJV)

Consider the butterfly for a moment. In the cocoon, the caterpillar dies, its insides literally turning to soup. Over the next few weeks, a new creature is established. This new life is a completely different design, even down to what it will consume for fuel. During the butterfly’s birth, the cocoon itself serves a final purpose. If a butterfly is freed from its cocoon thereby avoiding the struggle to emerge, the fluid in its body will never be pushed into its wings to straighten them. Without the use of its wings, the butterfly cannot take flight and will die.

“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:” (Romans 1:20 KJV)

Could this not be an eye-catching clue from the Divine Artist who spoke the cosmos into existence and who paints in light and sound and consciousness? How are we to learn to live in faith if we never have our faith tested? If Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and He met with adversity (from Satan, nature and mankind,) can’t we expect to as well? Does not a seed have to die in order for a great tree to be born? Are we not called to die to self daily, in order to be grown up in Him?

Summary
Often we are guilty of thinking of ourselves and others as the bodies we wear, but Genesis is very clear: we were created in His image. We know from John 4:24, God is spirit. Then so we are too. The Father restores us to the full realization of our true, pre-Fallen identity through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Without tests and adversity in our lives, what reason would we have to grow? With trial, we have the chance to press into Him and His Word (which He honors above all, Psalm 138:2,) through faith and belief in love. When faced with trial then, we keep our eyes on Him and His promises. Our natural minds will want to argue as we bump our heads on the ceiling of our faith but we are called to a higher faith. That faith works miracles, heals all sickness and overcomes death itself. As the last Adam (1 Corinthians 15:45,) Jesus has come to show us our true identity in the Father. He calls us away from the lies and distraction of the natural world and into life through union with the Holy Spirit.

In all things, we must remember the following truth from 55:9:

“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
This is about where I’m landing for now on the sovereignty of God. I think there are still some holes in my understanding on this topic, so if you can help fill them in, I encourage you to comment below.

 

[Justadude]

I know it is hard to understand for me as well but I can't question His Sovereignty.....just like Job said.....You have all power to give and to take away because all things belong to you.

Did God give Satan permission to attack Job?
Some pastors preach if you believe God gave Satan permission to attack Job, you will believe God ordains all sickness, death and loss. Jesus clearly stated the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy and that He came to give life and life abundant (John 10:10). Believing God ordained all your sickness, the untimely death of a loved one, or other loss is certainly error. It sets you up for an estranged relationship with your Heavenly Father and a walk with no authority; just what the Enemy wants. However, the Bible teaches us the storms come to the wise and the foolish alike (Matthew 7:24-27). Your walk as a believer will not be trouble-free. Christ’s promise to us is for a peace that transcends all understanding if we keep our minds and hearts on Him (Philippians 4:7).

Yes, God lifted the hedge of protection around Job after drawing Satan’s attention to Job in the first place.

Does God test us?
If Satan rules this world and God is not to blame for our disease, losses and calamity, how do we reconcile the following verses?

• Psalm 11:5 “The Lord tests the righteous,”
• Proverbs 17:3 “The crucible is for silver, the furnace for gold and the Lord test hearts,”
• Jeremiah 11:20, 20:12 “O Lord of hosts, who judges righteously, who tests the hearts and minds,” and
• 1 Thessalonians 2:4 “So we speak, not to please man, but to please God who tests our hearts.”

In both examples where Satan petitions to attack Job, God not only pointed Job out in the first place but also set the guidelines for the trials. This is likely for a number of reasons, which may include:

• God had faith in His servant,
• God desired to see Job grow in his understanding and relationship with Him, and
• God held divine intention for Job’s example to be immortalized in Scripture for the development of future believers.

The Father, in His sovereignty, places the limitations upon the attack. 1 Corinthians 10:13 states,

“There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.”

Here, “temptation” is the same word as “test” in the Greek. If read with this understanding, it is not simply the test of temptation to our fleshly desires, but also the tests of a distracting and corrupting natural world, false understanding and tests through physical adversity and loss.

Are all tests and trials from Satan? No. This brings us back to reaping and sowing and false thinking. So not all tribulation is from the devil, but still, what about protection and Satan’s agency? Does God lower the hedge to test our hearts?

Doesn’t God promise to protect us?
So, how does this work? Does God actually employ or allow Satan to test us through trials? Does He remove protection around us to allow in these attacks? Yes, God even has made a covenant of protection with those who walk with him in Psalm 91. Surely this protection is not completely removed all at once, just as Job’s account illustrates (Job 1:10). Otherwise, Satan would sweep us all to the grave before we could grow one more moment in the Lord!

From betrayal by his brothers, false accusations and imprisonment, Joseph faced many attacks, but in each instance, he kept his eyes on the Lord. As he told his brothers, “But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.” (Genesis 50:20)

Do our chances for testing rise and fall with the righteousness of our walk? Adam and Eve were seduced in the garden. They possibly walked in the closest proximity with God of anyone until Christ and still fell to their own desires through a simple lie. If you live for the flesh, you will set your heart upon the flesh (Romans 8:5-17).

Even Christ suffered. He was tempted, accused, betrayed, beaten and crucified. He suffered hunger and weariness and grief. As Romans 8:17 states, “We suffer with Him in order that we may be glorified with Him.”

During his ordeal, Job did not see why God allowed his misfortune, however if we look at the result, he and his friends grew in their knowledge of God’s character as a result of Job’s trials. God is much more interested in your spiritual development than He is your material well-being.

Wasn’t it God that struck Job?
Was it “the fire of God” (Job 1:16) that burned up Job’s flocks and servants? No, God did not stretch forth His hand and burn up Job’s flocks in a lightning storm; Satan did. Well then, what about in Job 2:3 where God says Satan moved God against Job to “destroy him without cause.” Does Satan have influence over our Father? No. Just as with the crucifixion of our Lord, Satan blindly plays right into God’s plan here in Job. As God says, “Have you considered my servant, Job?” God draws Satan’s attention onto the subject of the next test. In Satan’s rabid distaste for humanity, he charges headlong after the bait and by the end of the story, Job has been magnified.

Is Satan a fool to participate in our downfall then?
Unfortunately not. If his fiery darts often derail and distract the most dedicated Christians, imagine his success with those who are in the world and have not sought to be set apart from it. As illustrated in 1 Peter 5:8, Satan prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Every now and again, a Christian may resist the Enemy and win a victory, but as the Accuser, suffice it to say Satan already has a low opinion of our character. This is why it is so important for us to grow in our identity as sons and daughters, made in His image!

The Butterfly: A Map of Testing, Death and Rebirth
“But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:” (Job 12:7 KJV)

Consider the butterfly for a moment. In the cocoon, the caterpillar dies, its insides literally turning to soup. Over the next few weeks, a new creature is established. This new life is a completely different design, even down to what it will consume for fuel. During the butterfly’s birth, the cocoon itself serves a final purpose. If a butterfly is freed from its cocoon thereby avoiding the struggle to emerge, the fluid in its body will never be pushed into its wings to straighten them. Without the use of its wings, the butterfly cannot take flight and will die.

“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:” (Romans 1:20 KJV)

Could this not be an eye-catching clue from the Divine Artist who spoke the cosmos into existence and who paints in light and sound and consciousness? How are we to learn to live in faith if we never have our faith tested? If Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and He met with adversity (from Satan, nature and mankind,) can’t we expect to as well? Does not a seed have to die in order for a great tree to be born? Are we not called to die to self daily, in order to be grown up in Him?

Summary
Often we are guilty of thinking of ourselves and others as the bodies we wear, but Genesis is very clear: we were created in His image. We know from John 4:24, God is spirit. Then so we are too. The Father restores us to the full realization of our true, pre-Fallen identity through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Without tests and adversity in our lives, what reason would we have to grow? With trial, we have the chance to press into Him and His Word (which He honors above all, Psalm 138:2,) through faith and belief in love. When faced with trial then, we keep our eyes on Him and His promises. Our natural minds will want to argue as we bump our heads on the ceiling of our faith but we are called to a higher faith. That faith works miracles, heals all sickness and overcomes death itself. As the last Adam (1 Corinthians 15:45,) Jesus has come to show us our true identity in the Father. He calls us away from the lies and distraction of the natural world and into life through union with the Holy Spirit.

In all things, we must remember the following truth from 55:9:

“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
This is about where I’m landing for now on the sovereignty of God. I think there are still some holes in my understanding on this topic, so if you can help fill them in, I encourage you to comment below.

So, believers have a sort of veil of protection from God, but sometimes God will test believers by lifting this veil and allowing Satan to attack them?

What does that mean for those who succumb to the sickness, or die from a house fire, or drown in a flood? They failed the test?

Also, you didn't address the question I asked you earlier about the origin of pathogens. Since God didn't create them, does that mean they evolved by completely natural means?

 

[Heart2Soul]

So, believers have a sort of veil of protection from God, but sometimes God will test believers by lifting this veil and allowing Satan to attack them?

What does that mean for those who succumb to the sickness, or die from a house fire, or drown in a flood? They failed the test?

Also, you didn't address the question I asked you earlier about the origin of pathogens. Since God didn't create them, does that mean they evolved by completely natural means?

I really don't know how they first originated...sorry.

 

[Justadude]

I really don't know how they first originated...sorry.

Okay, that's fair. Any thoughts on the other questions?

 

[Heart2Soul]

Okay, that's fair. Any thoughts on the other questions?

The Bible says that our faith will be tried/tested....that was the main message in Job.
Why? To determine our sincerity of faith in that we have faith during times of plenty (blessings from God) and times of drought (the testing of our faith).

 

[Justadude]

The Bible says that our faith will be tried/tested....that was the main message in Job.
Why? To determine our sincerity of faith in that we have faith during times of plenty (blessings from God) and times of drought (the testing of our faith).

Which brings up the second question I asked. Does that mean that those who succumb to sickness, die from the house fire, drown in a flood, etc. have failed the test (presumably because they had insufficient faith)?

 

[Heart2Soul]

Which brings up the second question I asked. Does that mean that those who succumb to sickness, die from the house fire, drown in a flood, etc. have failed the test (presumably because they had insufficient faith)?

No....and don't ask me any more because I don't understand it myself. I almost lost my faith when my husband died and when little Jack died. I had to really fight satan on this because my thoughts were full of those same questions you are presenting. My final conclusion was no matter what trial or tribulation I suffer I will still praise Him.

 

[Justadude]

No....and don't ask me any more because I don't understand it myself. I almost lost my faith when my husband died and when little Jack died. I had to really fight satan on this because my thoughts were full of those same questions you are presenting. My final conclusion was no matter what trial or tribulation I suffer I will still praise Him.

Okay, I understand. I'm terribly sorry about your husband and Jack.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Okay, I understand. I'm terribly sorry about your husband and Jack.

Thanks....
God Bless

 

[Helen]

Those seem like reasonable questions to me. The only thing I would add is to question the concept of praying for God to intervene in the first place. Is the prayer/request an effort to change God's mind and get him to do something he wasn't otherwise going to do? If not, and the outcome was predetermined as part of "God's plan", what's the point of praying for intervention?

Good post.

See, I do not believe at all when I hear a person christian or otherwise, say that "God did this" or " Why did God allow this.."that it was God.

When I was young many moons ago , we knew a pastor who said -
" Anyone tells me "this sickness, disease or calamity was sent to by for this, that, or the other reason. I then say..' Oh , so if this is from God, it must be a blessing then ...if it's a blessing I will pray for you that God gives you twice as much blessing.
May your sickness, ( disease or clammily) increase even four fold, then you may be even more blessed by God. "
Obviously this old pastor was a strong man of faith , and got people healed.
One old lady wanted to die, because her husband has died that year.
He said to her, " You can die and go to heaven, but you are not going to die sick, sickness is the Devils chariot. So I will pray the you get healed, come to church on Sunday so they can see that you are healed, then you go home and die, well. She did, and she died three days later.
Today ( that was the 60's) they don't come like that dear old Pastor...he was a funny old bird.

 

[Episkopos]

At one of the blogs I read the author regularly has pieces about how after some tragedy, the survivors thank God for their survival or some other aspect of the outcome. Invariably the same questions get asked by non-theists like me, and in a post yesterday the blogger summed up these questions in the following way:

1. If God made orchids and butterflies and robins, He must also have created pediatric cancers, brain-eating amoebae, and every plague that ever existed. What sense does it make to only credit the Creator Of All with the nice stuff?

2. For an all-powerful God to heal us, He first has to injure us or make us sick — and He does exactly that relentlessly and with startling efficiency. When believers recover from a scary illness, where’s the logic in praising the entity that made them sick in the first place? Isn’t that akin to, from the burn ward, thanking the arsonist who firebombed your house but then handed you a pail of water?

3. There’s a pridefulness in thanking God that apparently doesn’t bother the faithful, but that, to others, often looks self-important and unseemly. If you believe you are so special and so full of trust in the Almighty that He saved you, the implication is that people who died fell short. Even if you didn’t mean to, you’re suggesting that their faith was insufficiently strong; their prayers too feeble; their suffering not important enough to warrant divine mercy.​

Those seem like reasonable questions to me. The only thing I would add is to question the concept of praying for God to intervene in the first place. Is the prayer/request an effort to change God's mind and get him to do something he wasn't otherwise going to do? If not, and the outcome was predetermined as part of "God's plan", what's the point of praying for intervention?

There is an assumption with all atheists that this life means everything....that there is no other purpose to life than eating and breathing in this creation. So then any other explanation is not understood by these because the viewpoint is limited to a temporal life.

But a believer knows that this life is a testing ground....and training ground for an eternal life.

So then if you go over all your points with that in mind you will find that there is no problem with whether a person's time is up....or not.

They who know God trust in His ways.....even though we don't understand all the parameters in a specific lifespan. But all things will be made clear in that regard after the time of this life is over. It is wise to do well while we still have breath. We were created for God's use and pleasure...not our own. We have no claim to any authorship on ourselves or our bodies. They are all a gift from God to be used to honour Him....not to serve other interests..

 

[Helen]

@Justadude P.S.
BTW, I myself have a heart problem , high BP , and a couple of other things...not quite sure what that old pastor would say to me if he were still here!!
I agree with @Heart2Soul I have no answers ...I know what and in whom I believe...all the questions will have to wait until ...this old flesh passes away and all things become clear. Until then, I will say with my dying breath , -"God is good, and He took our sicknesses and disease along with our sin on the cross."

Until then, I just Trust Him.

 

[Heart2Soul]

@Justadude P.S.
BTW, I myself have a heart problem , high BP , and a couple of other things...not quite sure what that old pastor would say to me if he were still here!!
I agree with @Heart2Soul I have no answers ...I know what and in whom I believe...all the questions will have to wait until ...this old flesh passes away and all things become clear. Until then, I will say with my dying breath , -"God is good, and He took our sicknesses and disease along with our sin on the cross."

Until then, I just Trust Him.

Amen!

 

[Waiting on him]

Which brings up the second question I asked. Does that mean that those who succumb to sickness, die from the house fire, drown in a flood, etc. have failed the test (presumably because they had insufficient faith)?

My prayer for you is that some day you actually encounter what you're looking for..

Jesus didn't/doesn't seek to save His life.