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The 12 Apostles

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Christina, Aug 12, 2007.

  1. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Peter (Simon Peter)It is said that the apostle Peter was a slender person of a middle size inclining to tallness and that his complexion was pale, almost white. It is also said that he had a short thick curled beard and thin eyebrows, or, no eyebrows at all. Peter's eyes wereblack, but, flecked with red due to frequent weeping. Born at Betsaida, in Galilee, to a fisherman by the name of Jona, Peter would eventually follow his father into this profession. He and his brother Andrew became partners with Zebedee and his sons James and John in a fishing business. All four, Peter, Andrew, James and John were to become disciples of Jesus, later to be appointed as apostles by Him. So firm was Peter's faith, that Jesus gave him the name of Cephas, meaning, in the Syriac language, a rock. Peter is the Greek translation of Cephas.The house in which Peter lived in, in Capernaum, is still standing, however, in the 5th century AD, a Christian church was constructed over it.It was Peter who preached to the masses in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost following the Lord's ascension to heaven and it is his message which is recorded in the New Testament of the Bible, the book of Acts, chapter 2. In fact, much is written about the apostle Peter in the first 12 chapters of the book of Acts in the New Testament.Peter is, also, the one who prompted the disciples to choose a replacement to take over the apostolic ministry of Judas Iscariot (after his betrayal and death) and it was Peter who healed a man over 40 years of age who had been crippled from birth with but the words, "Silver and Gold I do not have, but what I have I give to you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk."Peter was called by the apostle Paul a "pillar" of the church and it was believed by the crowds, that the mere casting of his shadow upon the sick, was capable of bringing about miraculous healing. Peter is, also, the one who defended the inclusion of the Gentiles in the Christian movement at the Apostolic Council in Jerusalem. His ministry was primarily to the Jews, as Paul's was to the Gentiles.After being imprisoned several times in Jerusalem because of his faith, Peter left with his wife and possibly others. It is believed that he ministered in Babylon to the Jewish colonists there and it is, also, believed to be his location when he wrote his first epistle (1 Peter).Peter eventually went to Rome and while there, it is believed that Mark (the writer of the Gospel of Mark) served as his translator as he preached. It is, also, believed that as Peter told and retold his experiences with Jesus, Mark interpreted time and time again to Christian groups and by so doing, gave Mark an almost verbatim memory of Peter's recollections. After Peter's death, Mark, realizing the value of Peter's first hand account, recorded what he remembered so clearly in what we know as the Gospel of Mark. In this manner, Peter became the source of our earliest Gospel.According to church tradition, the Roman Emperor Nero, publicly announcing himself the chief enemy of God, was led in his fury to slaughter the Apostles. Because of the persecution, Peter was crucified upside down while in Rome. Concerning the last hours of his life, it is said that when Peter saw his own wife led out to die, he rejoiced because of her summons and her return home, and called to her very encouragingly and comfortingly addressing her by name, and saying, "O thou, remember the Lord."Of the final days of the apostle Peter in Rome, Jowett wrote that Peter was cast into a horrible prison called the Mamertine and for nine months, in absolute darkness, he endured monstrous torture manacled to a post. In spite of all the suffering Peter was subjected to, he converted his jailers, Processus, Martinianus, and forty-seven others. Peter met his death at the hand of the Romans in Nero's circus, 67AD.More on Simon Peterhttp://www.stempublishing.com/authors/mack...3/SIMONPTR.html
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    AndrewAndrew is the brother of the apostle Peter and his parent's names were Joanna and Jona. Like their father, Andrew and Peter were also fishermen on the Sea of Galilee. In fact, the apostles Andrew, Peter, James and John were all partners in a fishing business prior to being called by Jesus to follow Him. Andrew was the first of the Apostles to follow Jesus (John 1:35-42) and just as John the Baptist introduced Jesus to the nation of Israel, so Andrew is noted for having introduced Jesus to individuals. The apostle Peter became the fisher of men in masse where Andrew was a fisher for individuals. In his later ministry, it is believed that Andrew went to the foothills of the Caucasus mountains (present day Georgia in Russia) and while there he preached to the Scythians as far as the Caspian Sea. He also went to Byzantium which is present day Istanbul in Turkey and from there, to Greece. In fact he traveled to Thrace and Macedonia, down through the Corinthian Gulf to Patros and it was in Patros that Andrew was martyred. In the church of St. Andrew in Patros, Greece, there is a book written in Greek which sheds light on his martyrdom. The following is written: "Aigeatis who was the governor of Patros became enraged at Andrew for his preaching and ordered him to stand before the tribunal in his attempt to do away with the Christian Faith. When Andrew resisted the tribunal the governor ordered him crucified. Andrew remained tied to the cross with thick tight ropes for three days and his last words were: "Accept me, O Christ Jesus, whom I saw, whom I love, and in whom I am; accept my spirit in peace in your eternal realm." An ancient writer also speaks of the apostle's martyrdom as such: "Andrew hung upon the cross three whole days, suffering dreadful pain but continuing constantly to tell the people around him of the love of Jesus Christ. The people as they listened to him began to believe his words and asked the governor to let him be taken down from the cross. Not liking to refuse them, he at last ordered the ropes to be cut but when the last rope was severed, the body of the apostle fell to the ground quite dead."It is believed that Andrew died on the last day of November, 69 AD.More on Andrewhttp://www.chrysostom.org/firstcalled/
     
  3. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    James (Son of Zebedee)Brother of John)Of the three apostles who comprised the inner circle, Peter, James and John, we know the least about the apostle James. We do know, however, that the apostle James was the eldest brother of the apostle John and that their father's name was Zebedee (their mother's name was Salome). James, his brother John, Peter and Andrew were all partners in a fishing business prior to being called by Christ to follow Him. Zebedee was also a partner in the business. There is also some evidence that James was the first cousin of Jesus the Messiah and had been acquainted with Him from infancy. It is believed that his mother Salome was the sister of Jesus' mother Mary. Not much is known of his ministry after the Lord's resurrection, but it is believed that he lived another 14 years before his martyrdom. In fact, the apostle James was the first apostle to suffer martyrdom. By order of Herod Agrippa I, James was beheaded in Jerusalem about the feast of Easter, 44 AD. It is believed that within this 14 year period, James visited the Jewish colonist and slaves in Spain to preach the Gospel. It has been said that when the apostle James was led out to die, a man who had brought false accusations against him walked with him to the place of execution. He had doubtless expected to see James looking pale and frightened but he saw him, instead, bright and joyous, like a conqueror who had won a great battle. The false witness greatly wondered at this and became convinced that the Savior in whom the prisoner by his side believed must be the true God or He could not impart such cheerfulness and courage to a man about to die. The man himself, therefore, became a convert to Christianity and was condemned to die with James the apostle ( both were consequently beheaded on the same day and with the same sword.) About the same period, Timon and Parmenas, two of the seven deacons, suffered martyrdom ( the former at Corinth and the latter at Philippi in Macedonia.)More on Jameshttp://elvis.rowan.edu/~kilroy/JEK/07/25.html
     
  4. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    John (Son of Zebedee) Bother of James)John was one of the sons of Zebedee (a fisherman of Galilee) and his mother's name was Salome (Salome is believed to be a sister of Jesus' mother, Mary). John, along with his brother (the apostle James) and the apostles Peter and his brother Andrew , were all partners in a fishing business prior to their call by Jesus to follow Him. Zebedeewas also a partner in the business. It is said that John owned a home in Jerusalem and that it is possible that the interview Nicodemus had with Jesus was held there. The apostle John rose to a position of influence within world-wide Christianity and shortly before the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 AD, he moved to Ephesus. He became the pastor of the church in Ephesus and had a special relationship to other churches in the area, as we know from the letters to the Seven Churches in Asia, in the book of Revelation. John's brother, James, was the first of the apostles to die, where John, on the other hand, was the last. All of the apostles met a violent death, however, John died peacefully in Ephesus, at an advanced age, around the year 100 AD. There is a church tradition, which says, that while John was living in Ephesus, John had with him Mary, the mother of Jesus, for a few years. While in Ephesus, by order of the Roman emperor Domitian, John was exiled to an island called Patmos. In what is known as the cave of the Apocalypse (located on this island), the sacred text of the book of Revelation was given to the apostle John by Jesus (it is here that John recorded what is written in the New Testament book of Revelation.) Other New Testament books accredited to John are the Gospel of John, along with 1st, 2nd and 3rd John. When he was released from exile, he returned to Ephesus and lived till the time of the Roman emperor Trajan. It is said that John, "Founded and built churches throughout all Asia, and worn out by old age, died in the sixty-eight year after our Lord's passion and was buried near the same city (Ephesus)." There is a church tradition, which says, that when John was evidently an old man in Ephesus, he had to be carried to the church in the arms of his disciples. At these meetings, he was accustomed to say no more than, "Little children, love one another!" After a time, the disciples wearied at always hearing the same words, asked, "Master, why do you always say this?" "It is the Lord's command," was his reply. "And if this alone be done, it is enough!" There is, also, a tradition which says that John was in Rome for a time.More on Johnhttp://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/b16ChrstChrch14.htm
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    PhilipHow did a Jew get a name such as the Greek, "Philip?" It's possible that he was named in honor of Philip the Tetrarch who had, some ten years before his birth, done much to raise the status of the region of his birth. Philip was born in Bethsaida in Galilee. Most of his latter ministry took place in Galatia (in Turkey) and it's believed that at the age of 87, he suffered martyrdom in Hierapolis.More on Philiphttp://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/STPHILIP.htm
     
  6. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    BartholomewThe apostle Bartholomew was led to Christ in the region of Galilee, possibly by the apostle Philip and his latter ministry belongs more to the eastern churches than it does to the western churches. There is a very interesting personal description of Bartholomew which says that He had black curly hair, white skin, large eyes, a straight nose, hair that covered his ears and a long grizzled middleheight beard. Bartholomew is said to have worn a white robe with a purple stripe and a white cloak with four purple gems at the corners. For twenty-six years he wore these and it is said that they never grew old. In fact, It was also reported, that his shoes lasted the same as his clothing. Of Bartholomew, it is said that he prayed a hundred times a day and a hundred times a night. It is also said that his voice was like a trumpet, angels waited upon him and that he was always cheerful and knew all languages. In the company of the apostle Philip, the apostle Bartholomew went to Asia Minor and labored in Hierapolis, near Laodicea and Colosse, in what is modern day Turkey. While in Hierapolis, it is said that the wife of the Roman proconsul was healed by the apostles Philip and Bartholomew, that she became a Christian and that her husband ordered Philip and Bartholomew to be put to death by crucifixion. Sadly, Philip was crucified, but Bartholomew escaped martyrdom, when for some special reason, the magistrates caused him to be taken down from the cross and dismissed. From there, Bartholomew went eastward to India and then to greater Armenia. A popular tradition among the Armenians is that the apostle Jude (Thaddaeus) was the first to evangelize their region throughout the years of 43 to 66 AD and that the apostle Bartholomew joined him in 60 AD (eight years before Bartholomew was martyred). It is also said that Bartholomew carried with him a copy of the apostle Matthew's Gospel. This copy was reported to be found at a later time and a converted stoic philosopher by the name of Pantaenus is said to have brought it to Alexandria. Bartholomew is reported to have labored in the area around the south end of the Caspian Sea, in the section that was then called Armenia. The modern name of the district where he died is Azerbaijan and the place of his death, called in New Testament times Albanopolis, is now Derbend which is on the west coast of the Caspian Sea. The apostle Bartholomew is said to have been martyred in the year 68 AD.
     
  7. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    ThomasThe apostle Thomas was also known as Didymas (the twin) however as to who his twin was, it's not known. He was a fisherman by trade and a native of Galilee.After the resurrection of the Lord Christ Jesus, Thomas went to Babylon. It is believed that he established the first Christian church there. He isalso known to have gone to Persia and from there he went to India and preached the Gospel making many converts. It is also believed that the apostle Thomas evangelized as far as China, and while in India, he suffered martyrdom; being killed with a lance (he was buried in Mylapore, India, which is now a suburb of Madras.) The apostle Thomas is said to have been a fearless evangelist and a great builder of churches.
     
  8. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    MatthewThe apostle Matthew, also called Levi, was the son of Alphaeus and the brother of the apostle James the Less, or, James, son of Alphaeus. By profession, Matthew was a tax collector before being called by Jesus to follow Him. Matthew probably remained in the Holy Land, as tradition says, for 15 years and after this, encouraged by the reports of the success of other Christian leaders among the Jews (the Diaspora) and also among the Gentiles, he went forth on several missionary journeys. It is certain that he went to Persia and the mysterious area in Persia known as "Ethiopia." It is also possible that he traveled to the Ethiopia in Africa as the Roman Catholic tradition indicates and there is also a belief that Matthew was martyred in Egypt upon his return from Ethiopia in Africa but this is not certain. There is a tradition which says that Matthew was martyred in Parthia. Matthew was a gifted writer, an ardent disciple, and was perhaps the best educated of any of the Twelve Apostles. He was the writer of The Gospel of Matthew.
     
  9. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    James (Son of Alphaeus)Brother of Matthew)The apostle James ( the son of Alphaeus), who is also called "Less" or "Younger," was a brother of the apostle Matthew and the son of Mary. Which Mary is not altogether certain though she seems to be the wife of one Cleopas. Not much is known about the later ministry of ofthis apostle, however, Aziz S. Atiya, in his "History of Eastern Christianity" says," The seeds of Syrian Christianity had been sown in Jerusalem during the Apostolic age and the contention has been made that the first bishop of the Syrian church was none other than St. James of the Twelve Apostles, identified as 'St. James the Less'." It has also been said that James (son of Alphaeus) was stoned in Jerusalem for preaching Christ and buried by the Sanctuary.
     
  10. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Jude (Thaddaeus)After the ascension of Jesus, Jude was one of the first apostles to leave Jerusalem for a foreign country. In fact, it is believed that Jude was one of the first apostles to witness directly to a foreign king, a Gentile. Jude is believed to have evangelized the area ofArmenia associated with the city of Edessa, in company perhaps of the apostle Bartholomew, and for a brief time, with the apostle Thomas.One can, also, believe that Jude spent his years of evangelization in Syria and northern Persia. It is likely that he was martyred there and buried in Kara Kalisa near the Caspian Sea, about 40 miles from Tabriz, in modern day Iran.
     
  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Simon (The Zealot)Simon ( the Zealot ) was believed to have preached the Gospel throughout North Africa, from Egypt to Mauritania, and even into Britain. There is a church tradition which says that he was crucified by the Romans in Caistor, Lincolnshire,Britain and subsequently buried there on May 10, circa 61 A.D. This cannot be confirmed, however, as there is also a strong tradition which says, that having left Britain, Simon, at some point , went to Persia and was martyred there by being sawn into.
     
  12. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Judas IscariotPerhaps the most significant thing that can be said of Judas Iscariot, was, that, in feeling sorrow for his crime of betrayal, he did seek to atone for his sin against the One (Jesus) whom he (Satan entered into him) had wronged. He then went out and hanged himself. He burst asunder. (split open innards fell out)
     
  13. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Not of the original twelve MatthiasIt is believed that Matthias evangelized in regions of Armenia and great peril befell him in the cities of Colchis, Sebastopol and elsewhere. It is also believed that he at one time, was aided by the apostle Andrew. He along with the apostles Jude (Thaddaeus), Bartholomew, Simon the Zealot and Andrew are credited by Armenian tradition as the apostles who evangelized Armenia. There are several places mentioned as to where he suffered martyrdom, one being Phaleaon, a city of Judea and another Jerusalem.
     
  14. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Not of the Original tweveSaul (Paul)The apostle Paul was, at first, a great enemy to the Christian; he was present at the stoning of Stephen (the executioners laid their cloaks at his feet.) After the death of Stephen, however, while Paul was on his way to Damascus, the glory of the Lord shone suddenly upon him and he was struckto the earth and made blind for three days. After his recovery, he was converted and became an apostle and, lastly, suffered as a martyr for the religion which he had formerly persecuted. Paul's great abilities, and earnest enthusiasm in spreading the gospel of Christ, have made his name revered wherever the Christian religion is known. It is his writings, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, which make up much of the New Testament of the Bible. After his wonderful conversion, Paul went to Jerusalem where he saw Peter, James and John. Later, he went forth with Barnabus to preach (sent forth from the church in Antioch.) Much can be read about the life and missionary journeys of Paul in the New Testament of the Bible. At one point , the apostle Paul was a prisoner in Rome, and after being released, as part of his further missionary journeys, it is believed that he visited Gaul and Spain. It is also believed that, when he returned to Rome, he was taken prisoner and imprisoned for nine months with the apostle Peter. It was in Rome that the apostle Paul suffered martyrdom. By order of the Emperor Nero, Paul was beheaded with a sword
     
  15. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I added some links for you Wakka:)
     
  16. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    THE DEATH OF JOHN THE BAPTIST The date of John the Baptist's execution has implications for dating the crucifixion of Jesus. The gospel versions The version in Josephus The traditional harmonization Historical reconstruction Comments Chronological questions Conclusion THE GOSPEL VERSIONS The story is found in the Gospel of Mark 6:14-29. Here a 'King Herod' had heard about the miracles of Jesus and assumed that Jesus was a manifestation of John the Baptist whom he had executed earlier. The story of John's execution is told in parenthesis as a flashback. Herod had arrested John because of John's comment on Herod's marriage to Herodias, his brother Philip's wife: "It is not lawful for you to have your brother's wife." (NRSV) Herodias had a grudge against John, but Herod was afraid to take the matter further because he was afraid of John who he knew to be a righteous and holy man. Herodias' daughter danced at Herod's birthday pary. She pleased Herod so much he asked her what gift she would like. The dancer conferred with her mother Herodias who told her to ask for the head of John the Baptist. Herod could not go back on his word and had John beheaded. The head was brought in on a platter and given to the daughter who in turn gave it to Herodias. In the Gospel of Matthew (14:1-12) the outline is similar but 'King Herod' has been replaced with 'Herod the tetrarch'. This clearly refers to Antipas, a son of Herod the Great, who was tetrarch of the Galilee and Perea. The story appears in an abbreviated form in Luke 3:19-20. There is no mention of the birthday party or of John's execution. "So, with many other exhortations, he [John] proclaimed the good news to the people. But Herod the ruler (Greek tetrarch), who had been rebuked by him because of Herodias, his brother's wife, and because of all the evil things that Herod had done, added to them all by shutting up John in prison." (NRSV) THE VERSION IN JOSEPHUS The story is also found in book XVIII of Josephus Antiquities of the Jews. Here Josphus is recounting the history of the descendants of King Herod. Josephus relates the history of Philip, the brother of Herod the Tetrarch, and states that Philip died childless in the twentieth year of the reign of Tiberius. Philip is identified as the ruler of Trachonitis, Gaulanitis, and the tribe of the Bataneans. In order to avoid confusion, from now on Josephus' references to "Herod the Tetrarch" will be replaced by Antipas, the name by which the tetrarch is normally known today. So too the references to "Herod" where it is certain the same individual is meant. Antipas had married the daughter of Aretas, the King of Petra [i.e., the neighbouring kingdom of Nabatea]. On a journey to Rome Antipas had stayed with a half-brother 'Herod', the son of King Herod and his wife, the daughter of Simon the high priest. (Some mss give the half-brother's name as Philip, but this could be from a later redaction.) While there, Antipas had fallen in love with his half-brother's wife, Herodias. Herodias agreed to marry Antipas after his return from Rome on condition he divorced the daughter of Aretas. Before Antipas' return from Rome, the daughter of Aretas realized what was happening and fled back to her father. As a result Aretas invaded Antipas' territory. Antipas' army was defeated which some Jews saw as divine vengeance for Antipas' execution of John the Baptist. Antipas is stated to have executed John because he feared John's teachings could lead to unrest. The narrative then covers the rest of the war, and then begins to recount the histories of other descendants of King Herod. Here he mentions Herodias again. Herodias was married to 'Herod', the son of King Herod and his wife Mariamme, by whom she had a daughter, Salome. Herodias then married Antipas, the half-brother of her husband 'Herod'. This 'Herod' was still alive at the time of the marriage. Herodias' daughter Salome married Philip, the tetrarch of Trachonitis, another son of King Herod. THE TRADITIONAL HARMONIZATION There have been many attempts to reconcile the discrepancies within and between the various accounts. For an overview see Herod Antipas H. W. Hoehner, 1972, Cambridge University Press (paperback edition 1980, Zondervan). From the traditional point of view any intertextual problems are minor. In the main the Josephus' version can be harmonized with the gospel versions, and it is from this harmonization that modern versions of the stories are derived (plays, books, the opera, etc.). The main points are: Herodias had abandoned or divorced her husband (an otherwise unknown 'Herod Philip') in order to marry Antipas. This made her an adulteress in the eyes of John the Baptist. The girl who danced at Antipas' birthday part was Salome, Herodias' daughter from her earlier marriage. Because Herodias had left her previous husband before his death, her marriage to Antipas could not be tied to a particular date, and therefore neither could the excecution of John the Baptist. The gospel sequence that John the Baptist's execution occurred before the crucifixion of Jesus was therefore unchallenged, and John's death had no ramifications for dating this event. HISTORICAL RECONSTRUCTION Unfortunately this analysis no longer stands. We can now date Herodias' marriage to Antipas with some precision. (See The Herodian Dynasty, Nikos Kokkinos, 1988, Journal for the Study of the Pseudographia Supplement Series 30, Sheffield Academic Press.) Herodias was born in about 15 BCE. She was the grandaughter of King Herod and his 2nd wife, Mariamme I, who was a grandaughter of Hyrcanus III, one of the kings of Judaea. In about 8 BCE she was betrothed to Herod III and married him when she came of age at about the turn of the century. Herod III was the son of King Herod and his 5th wife, Mariamme II. Mariamme was the daughter of Simon, a son of Boethus of Alexandria. When King Herod had conquered Judaea he had eliminated any potential opponents to his rule, including the then high priests of Jerusalem. The vacancies were filled by the Alexandrian Boethus family, Simon being appointed High Priest of Jerusalem. Herod's marriage to Simon's daughter Mariamme was in effect a means of bestowing patronage to (and therefore control over) the high priesthood. Herod III had been designated as heir to the kingdom in a will of King Herod, but he was later cut out when a new will was made. On the death of King Herod the Romans divided up his kingdom between three of his sons. Archelaus was appointed ethnarch of Judaea, Antipas was appointed tetrarch of the Galilee and Perea, and Philip tetrarch of Iturea and Trachonitis. Archelaus' rule was not a success and he was banished in CE 6, the Romans taking direct control of Judaea. Herod III would have lost even more prestige at this time. He was related via his mother to the Boethian high priestly family, and during the period of direct Roman rule their position weakened, most of the high priests of Jerusalem being drawn from the rival family of Ananus. Herodias divorced Herod III and married Philip. The date is unknown, but one can presume this was due to the increased power and prestige of Philip and the loss of status of Herod III. Alternatively the divorce and the subsequent marriage may have been arranged by King Herod when he cut Herod II from his will. (See article Herodias I.) Philip died in late CE 33. He may have been childless, or possibly had no male heirs. In any event there were contenders to replace him, of whom one was Antipas. He and the widowed Herodias agreed to marry which in effect would help Antipas in his claim for Philip's territory and maintain Herodias' position as the wife of a tetrarch. This is clearly a political marriage and the idea that Antipas had fallen in love with Herodias a romantic fabrication - in CE 33 Herodias was 48 or 49 years old and Antipas was approaching 60. According to Josephus, Herodias imposed the condition that Antipas divorced his current wife, the daughter of Aretas IV. No doubt this was an issue of prestige. Herodias was descended from a branch of the Herodian clan with links to the ancient family of Hyrcanus, and it is unlikely she would have accepted a position inferior to that of Aretas' daughter. However before the marriage could take place Antipas had to get permission from the Emperor Augustus. This involved a personal journey to Rome which could only have been started in the following spring and would have taken some months. The marriage would have taken place in the autumn of CE 34 at the earliest. COMMENTS The historical reconstruction above makes more sense than the traditional view. It avoids the difficulty of the otherwide unknown 'Herod-Philip' who is usually specified as Herodias' husband prior to Antipas. And it also provides a convincing reason why Antipas would want to marry Herodias. A marriage to the widow of Philip the tetrarch would advance Antipas' claim for Philip's territory, even to the extent of being worth the risk of antagonizing Aretas by the marriage. (See article Herod the tetrarch.) Legally, both in the Pharasaic and Sadducean traditions, Herodias and Antipas were doing nothing wrong. But that would not have been the view of those who had a fundamentalist concept of marriage such as John the Baptist. It is possible that Herodias was already considered an adulteress as she had divorced her first husband, Herod III, and by marrying Antipas and residing in the Galilee she brought herself within range of her accusers such as John the Baptist who operated in Antipas' territory. The fact that all three of her husbands were also her uncles probably didn't help. John the Baptist's disparaging comments on the marriage of Antipas and Herodias could not have taken place earlier than the public announcement of the forthcoming marriage. So if Herodias' prior husband was Philip the tetrarch, and he died in CE 33, we can place John's comments as being no earlier than late CE 34 when Herod returned from Rome. However John's execution is related to Antipas' birthday party which must have happened some time later, possibly CE 35. As the gospels place John's execution as happening prior to the crucifixion of Jesus, this puts a limitation on dating the crucifixion earlier than that date. So can the gospel version be relied on? If we accept the primacy of Mark in the Synoptic gospels, then the story first occurs in Mark. Matthew follows Mark, but Luke condenses it to two lines and omits the execution, and John ignores it completely. One inference might be Luke and John considered it dubious. Luke in particular, who was creating a presentation copy for Theophilus, might be careful about making statements concerning Herodian princes that could not be substantiated. Clearly there are fictional elements in the story. That a Herodian princess would be so declassé as to dance in public is a problem that has been raised by several commentators. And of course the head on a platter is sensational fiction. If an execution had taken place, Antipas would undoubtedly have accomplished this through legal means. However any theories on the origins of the story can only be speculative. One must assume that Mark had access to a source which included the fully developed version. The question that then arises is did he include it in the correct chronological order within the gospel narrative? One could hypothesize that there might have been a theological reason for Mark to place John's execution before the crucifixion. If Jesus was seen to have died before John it would detract from the theological point that Jesus was paramount. CHRONOLOGICAL QUESTIONS To create a meaningful chronology the following questions have to be considered. Who was Herodias' previous husband? Philip the tetrarch seems most likely. However future research or criticism could provide an alternative candidate. What was the date of the wedding of Herodias and Antipas? Probably CE 34, but depends on 1. above. We should also note that the date of CE 34 for the death of Philip is not accepted by all, for instance the Loeb edition of Josephus Antiquities gives the date as CE 31. The Loeb edition dates from 1965, however it is still widely quoted. The date is based on Josephus' statement that Philip died in the twentieth year of the reign of Tiberius, so the matter hinges around how the regnal years of Tiberius are to be counted. Inclusively, i.e., counting part years? Ante-dated, i.e. the count starting from when Tiberius was declared Caesar rather than when he took office? What calendar was Josephus or his source using - i.e., in what month did the year start? And of course did Josephus or his source get the date right in the first place? The date is the best we have at the moment, but no doubt there will be more attempts in the future to clarify the dates in Josephus. Was John's execution dependant on his criticism of Herodias? It seems a likely scenario, but due to the sensationalist nature of the story we cannot be sure that it historically accurate. It may be based on comments John had made about Herodias some time before, or even someone's idea of the sort of thing that John would have said. Putting words into people's mouths was common practice at the time even among serious historians. Is the gospel order correct? Did John's death occur before that of Jesus? All references in the gospels ultimately derive from Mark, and before that the source he was using. The question is did Mark insert the source in the right place? He may have had a valid reason to do so, but there are alternatives. He might have been influenced by theological considerations (if only subconsciously). Or he might have thought it was simply too good a story to leave out, and of course it does tidy up a loose end as to what happened to John the Baptist. However, whatever the reason for its inclusion, Mark would have had no choice but to insert it into the main body of the narrative because that had to end with the resurrection. The fact that the execution story is told as a parenthetical flashback outside of the main narrative flow should make us cautious before accepting that the chronology of Mark is correct. CONCLUSION If we accept that Philip was Herodias' husband prior to Antipas, that Philip died in CE 33, that the execution of John the Baptist was triggered by his comments about the marriage of Herodias and Antipas, and that the chronology in Mark is correct, then the crucifixion can only have taken place at Passover CE 35 at the earliest. If we accept the above, but consider that Philip died earlier than CE 33, then the date of the crucifixion can be pushed back a little. However, in my view, these conclusions depend on so many suppositions that it would be unwise to use them as a base for a chronology of the life of Jesus without supporting evidence from elsewhere.
     
  17. Wakka

    Wakka Super Member

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    Thank you Kriss [​IMG]
     
  18. Letsgofishing

    Letsgofishing New Member

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    "Peter was called by the apostle Paul a "pillar" of the church"Pillar huh. Well when you think about it a pillar is what keeps the church together. Almost like a rock foundation beneath the house instead of a sand foundation. Wow speaking of being a Rock isn't that exactly what Jesus called him.sorry couldn't help it [​IMG]thanks for the information Kriss Ive actually already have printed it out.Your brother in christRyan FitzPS.- God of course is the true rock of the church and is responsible for keeping the church together.But he did it through Peter.
     
  19. Wakka

    Wakka Super Member

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    (Letsgofishing;38772)
    "Peter was called by the apostle Paul a "pillar" of the church"Pillar huh. Well when you think about it a pillar is what keeps the church together. Almost like a rock foundation beneath the house instead of a sand foundation. Wow speaking of being a Rock isn't that exactly what Jesus called him.sorry couldn't help it [​IMG]thanks for the information Kriss Ive actually already have printed it out.Your brother in christRyan FitzPS.- God of course is the true rock of the church and is responsible for keeping the church together.But he did it through Peter.
    A rock, but only Christ is the true leader. He doesn't need a man making decisions or anything like that for Him.
     
  20. Letsgofishing

    Letsgofishing New Member

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    (Wakka;38773)
    A rock, but only Christ is the true leader. He doesn't need a man making decisions or anything like that for Him.
    exactly!!!God makes decisions for men and if the Men are leaders they listen to him!!
     
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