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The Baptism With The Holy Spirit (A Scriptural Study)

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by John Zain, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. John Zain

    John Zain Newbie trainee

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    John the Baptist tells us that Jesus is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit:

    “He (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.” (Matthew 3:11).
    Also see similar wording in the other gospels (Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33).
    It is God’s will that people should receive this special baptism
    in which people are baptized WITH the Holy Spirit BY Jesus.
    But, this is not to be confused with another type of baptism, which concerns salvation:
    “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body (the Church)” (1 Corinthians 12:12).
    In this latter case, the Holy Spirit does the baptizing.

    1 – Jesus told His group of disciples to wait for “the Promise” of the Father:
    ”Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of
    Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.” (Luke 24:49).


    2 – Luke gives more details about what Jesus instructed them:
    “… wait for the Promise of the Father …
    … you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.
    … you shall receive (spiritual) power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you;
    and you shall be witnesses to Me … to the end of the earth.” (Acts 1:4-8).
    This has nothing to do with salvation (where the Holy Spirit comes inside a person):
    “the Spirit of truth … He dwells with you and will be in you.” (John 14:17).
    “the Holy Spirit who dwells in us” (1 Timothy 1:14, Romans 8:11, 1 Corinthians 3:16).
    But, the Holy Spirit baptism is always about the Holy Spirit coming upon a person.

    3 – On the Day of Pentecost, approximately 120 people received
    what was promised above … the baptism with the Holy Spirit:
    “When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
    And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a mighty rushing wind,
    and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them
    divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all
    filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues,
    as the Spirit gave them utterance.” (Acts 2:1-4).


    4 – The Judean Jews wanted to know how to receive this same experience:
    “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father
    the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this (Pentecost) which you now see and hear.
    … ‘Men and brethren, what shall we (Jews) do?’ Then Peter said to them, ‘Repent, and
    let every one of you be baptized (in water) in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission
    of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to
    your children, and all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call’ ” (Acts 2:33-39).
    So, we see that “the promise of the Holy Spirit” and “the gift of the Holy Spirit”
    are both the baptism with the Holy Spirit, which is the same experience that
    the 120 received on the Day of Pentecost.

    5 – Peter and John amazed the Jewish leaders:
    “Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them (the high priest and others) …
    Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were
    uneducated and untrained men, they marvelled ... And seeing the man who had been healed
    standing with them, they could say nothing against it ... For, indeed, that a notable miracle
    has been done through them is evident to all …” (Acts 4:8-16).


    6 – Peter and John had great boldness now, and they prayed that
    their companions would also be given this boldness and spiritual power:
    “And when they had prayed … they (the companions) were all filled with the Holy Spirit,
    and they spoke the word of God with boldness(Acts 4:31).
    It is suggested that when their companions were filled with the Holy Spirit,
    they received the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Obviously, all of the details
    of what happens in every event cannot always be mentioned.

    7 – Because many members had received the baptism with the Holy Spirit,
    there was great power for miracles in the church:
    “And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done
    among the people ... and they were all healed.” (Acts 5:12-16).
    Other examples are Stephen (Acts 6:8) and Philip (Acts 8:6-7).

    8 – Receiving the Holy Spirit -- the baptism with the Holy Spirit:
    “… when they (Peter & John) had come down, (they) prayed for them* that they might
    receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He (the Holy Spirit) had fallen upon none of them*.
    They* had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them*,
    and they received the Holy Spirit. And when Simon saw that through the laying on of hands
    the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, ‘Give me this power also,
    that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.’” (Acts 8:14-19). * the Samarians

    9 – Saul (Paul) was healed and received the baptism with the Holy Spirit:
    “And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said,
    ‘Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus … has sent me that you may receive your sight and be
    filled with the Holy Spirit.’ Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales,
    and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.” (Acts 9:17-18).
    In point 3, when they were “filled with the Holy Spirit”, they received the Holy Spirit baptism.

    10 – Paul preached and performed miracles under God’s power:
    “… in mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God, so that from Jerusalem
    and round about to Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.” (Romans 15:19).


    11 – The evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit baptism:
    “… the Holy Spirit fell upon all those (Gentiles) who heard the word
    the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
    For they (Peter and his companions) heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
    Then Peter asked, ‘Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be
    baptized (in water) who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?’
    And he commanded them to be (water) baptized in the name of the Lord.“ (Acts 10:44-48).


    12 – Peter recalls point 11 when the Gentiles received the Holy Spirit baptism:
    “… the Holy Spirit fell upon them (the Gentiles), as upon us (the Jews) at the beginning.
    Then I remember the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water,
    but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ … God gave them the same gift
    as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ” (Acts 11:15-17).
    The GIFT was the same as in point 3, and also see point 4.

    13 – Paul and Barnabus’ experiences with miracles:
    “They stayed there a long time, speaking boldly in the Lord, who was bearing witness
    to the word of His grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands.” (Acts 14:3).

    14 – Another occasion where believers received the Holy Spirit baptism:
    “… they (the Ephesian disciples) were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
    And when Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came upon them,
    and they spoke with tongues and prophesied …” (Acts 19:5-6).

    Water baptism preceded the Holy Spirit baptism, but in point 11 the reverse was true.

    Now let’s take a close look at the inter-connections and linkages:

    These 1 thru 14 refer to the 14 points above:
    ……………………………………………………1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
    the Promise (HS) ---Y-Y---Y-------------------------
    baptized with HS -----Y-------------Y--------Y-----Y
    the gift -----------------Y---------------Y--Y------
    upon ---------------Y-Y-Y---------Y-------Y--Y-----Y
    laying on of hands ---------------Y-Y-----------Y--Y
    filled with HS ---------Y---Y-Y-----Y---------------
    received HS ----------------------Y-------Y---------
    speaking tongues -------Y-----------------Y--------Y
    power --------------Y-Y-----------Y----Y------------
    boldness -------------------Y-Y-----------------Y---
    miracles -------------------Y---Y---Y--Y--------Y---

    I believe it is obvious that all of these are directly connected.

    Some people say,
    “That’s all very nice, but it’s not for now … it was only for back then … at the time of the early church.”
    First of all, let’s ask the question: What in the New Testament is NOT for today?
    Even the instructions to slave masters and slaves are for today (because there is slavery today).

    But, here’s the #1 reason some people have for debunking the Holy Spirit baptism for today:
    “But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease;
    but whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
    But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.”
    (1 Corinthians 13:8-10).

    Some church leaders who do NOT have this baptism say what is “perfect” is the Scriptures.
    Paul wrote the above passage in about 54 a.d. Did he know there would be a Bible?
    But beyond that, you can imagine all the reasons church leaders have had for criticising
    this powerful spiritual baptism that they do NOT have.

    The explanation

    The Greek word for “perfect” means “end or completion”, so surely this is referring to the
    Second Coming of Christ and the completion of all things (then all will be perfect in heaven).

    “Even if we receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit in this life, our knowledge, our prophecies,
    and all of our other works can never be perfect. But when perfection comes – that is,
    in heaven – then all of our abilities and all of out works will be perfect, because then
    we shall be like Christ (see 1 John 3:2).” … The Applied New Testament Commentary

    For 30-40 years, there have been millions of testimonies from people around the world
    who have been blessed by evangelists, etc. who have the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
    The people who have been performing miracles, etc. in the name of Jesus
    (all around the world) have this Holy Spirit baptism.

    The pre-requisite from the very begining

    The baptism with the Holy Spirit is a pre-requisite for receiving any of
    the 9 major spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:1-10) to any strong degree:
    the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, faith, gifts of healings,
    the working of miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, different
    kinds of tongues, interpretation of tongues.

    Since the early church, God has intended the baptism with the Holy Spirit to be
    a pre-requisite for being called into “the 5-fold ministry”:
    “And He Himself (Jesus) gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists,
    and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry,
    for the edifying of the body of Christ …” (Ephesians 4:11-12).
    Notice that it is Jesus Himself who “calls” these people.
    All of these 5 critical leadership ministries were intended to be powered by
    the 9 major spiritual gifts above (with each leader receiving one or more of them).

    But, throughout history, there have been multitudes of self-appointed ministries
    where the people were NOT called by Jesus and NOT given any spiritual gifts.
    These people were never anointed, but operated basically “in the flesh”.

    Smith Wigglesworth (1859-1947), a world-famous healing evangelist, said:
    "If you do not receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit,
    you are living in a weak and impoverished condition."

    All of this information is to encourage you to press God for this baptism.
    I did ... and I received.

    Luke 24:49
    Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you;
    but tarry in the city (town, village, etc.) of _________
    until you are endued with power from on high.”

     
    gregg likes this.
  2. BritGuy

    BritGuy New Member

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    I believe that the baptism in the Spirit is how God makes people members of his Church:
    "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:13)

    All were "made to drink" as the Holy Spirit gave them the utterance in tongues:

    " ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.... they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance"
    (Acts 1:5, 2:4)


    This is also called receiving the (promised) Holy Spirit, becoming "born again":

    "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. (Acts 2:33)

    "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." (John 3:8)



    This is said to be for all who God will call, sure enough the gentiles got the same (Acts 10:44-46, 11:14-18).

    The baptism in the Spirit was clearly identified. I see no reason for change or doubt.
     
  3. Foreigner

    Foreigner New Member

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    Please:

    Those of you who are planning to show how wrong you think this gentleman is - please be respectful and do not use the harsh condeming langauge I have seen in the past towards people who believe this.

    There are 100 Million Christians worldwide who believe and practice exactly what this person believes and they feel their relationship with God is strengthened by it.
     
  4. John Zain

    John Zain Newbie trainee

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    I don't see what "drink into one Spirit" has to do with anything
    ... because I believe this terminology is not used again anywhere.
    It seems that you have not followed the logic of my article.
    Points 1 and 2 show that "the Promise" was the HS baptism.
    I should include Acts 2:33 in my article,
    as it refers to what happened on the "Day of Pentecost".
    I believe John 3:8 refers to a similarity between the wind and the Holy Spirit.
    Do you believe people who are "born of the Spirit" hear something like the wind?
    I take it that you do not have this baptism?
     
  5. John Zain

    John Zain Newbie trainee

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    Thank you, Foreigner,
    But having been called to be an evangelist, I'm not the least bit phased by anyone who is critical of me.
    Beyond that ...
    Does anyone know of any pastors, evangelists, etc. whom the Holy Spirit performs miracles through
    who do NOT have this Holy Spirit baptism? I'd like to speak to him or her or them.
    Or, don't you think miracles are for today?
    Hint: They're the best way to prove the power of the gospel.
     
  6. BritGuy

    BritGuy New Member

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    God never speaks idly, every word has significance and will be confirmed elsewhere:

    Matt. 18:16: in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

    1Cor. 2:13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


    Here are some verses that may help you "see":
    Isaiah 28:11-12, 1 Cor. 14:21-22, John 7:37-39.

    I and many others testify that since receiving the infilling of the Spirit, speaking in tongues we have found satisfaction we never found before so we need "never thirst again", indeed it is overflowing, we just want to tell the answers to others.

    The phrase translated "the wind bloweth" should be "the spirit breathes", as the word "pneuma" is always elsewhere translated as spirit and there is a different word for wind.
    The natural is a patttern of the Spiritual, the cry of a newborn baby is seen as the first sign of life.

    Gal. 4:6: And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
     
  7. rjp34652@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Choir Loft

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    There is a great deal of debate, dogma, misunderstanding and plain old fashioned angry disagreement regarding the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
    Most of it has nothing whatsoever to do with scripture as evidenced by many lengthy quotations. See previous posts.

    The arguments generally use scripture both as a fortress and as ammunition to justify a position and to attack fellow Christians.
    In neither case are the mechanics of the thing discovered or explained.

    The problem, therefore, is not in scripture but in common English words and the transmission of their meanings. For the edification of a few I include the following explanation.

    In my opinion, two English words are the cause of most misunderstanding. The words are 'filling' and 'receiving'.
    Despite their simplicity, their proper use in the context of the actions of the Holy Spirit are seemingly not well understood.

    My remarks here apply to demonic spirits as well as the Holy Spirit of God, but for purposes of clarity I am restricting ALL of my comments to the subject of the Holy Spirit.

    A spiritual influence or presence as perceived by a human is usually but not always preceeded by some sort of invocation or invitation.
    Hence many Christian prayers or worship services begin with an invitation for the Holy Spirit to attend.
    The simple perception, experience or 'feeling' of the Holy Spirit does not a Christian make. That much is external.

    In order for one to become a Christian in God's eyes, the Holy Spirit must become internalized. One must injest the thing in much the same way as one takes in food in one's body.
    A human must become one with the Holy Spirit in order to allow it to cleanse of sin and to begin its work of holiness.
    This much is pretty well agreed upon by most Christians.

    The idea of external vs. internal experiences of the Holy Spirit is critical to the understanding of salvation in general and baptism of the Holy Spirit in particular.

    A good example for internalizing the Holy Spirit is the act of having guests over to one's house for dinner, conversation or simple fellowship.
    In actual fact, the Bible states that spirits consider the human body to be a house. The similarity is striking and that is why I use the house guest as an example.

    #1 One's guest, be it friend or relative is first invited to come into the house. [invocation]
    #2 When the invited guest appears at the door of the house, the owner recognizes them and opens the door to them. [receiving]
    #3 The guest enters the house or fills the house depending upon the size of the place and the number of guests. [filling]

    That's all there is to it.

    The Holy Spirit is invited to enter the human.
    When it arrives or is perceived by the human, the human recognizes the Holy Spirit and receives it/welcomes it in.
    When the Holy Spirit actually enters the human it is said to have filled the person.

    Some Christians argue that the 'Baptism of the Holy Spirit' is an added blessing that other Christians don't have. One that they should seek.
    In point of fact this attitude is nothing more than arrogance, conceit and spiritual self-pride.
    ("I have more than you do... blah blah blah. I'm holier than you are...blah blah blah")

    The blessings of the Holy Spirit are God's to give.
    They are ours to humbly and gratefully receive, never to flaunt as an advantage over others.
     
  8. John Zain

    John Zain Newbie trainee

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    Most responders seem to be talking about what THEY "believe"
    that is so different than the quoted Scriptures are saying.

    Is what they "believe" ... what they've been taught since childhood?

    Surely, the above Scriptures are clear as to what the truth is,
    without people exhibiting their personal biases and opinions.

     
  9. rjp34652@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Choir Loft

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    Upon reviewing my own remarks above it seems to me that it is possible that they may be interpreted as in opposition to your introductory post.
    Your points are well taken and thoroughly presented. I cannot find any point of error. Please accept my apology if my words seem contradictory to yours.
    My post was intended to reinforce your point.

    There are many who do not believe that there IS a spirit; holy or otherwise.
    Neither do they acknowledge the legitimate claim of Jesus as the Son of God or even that God interests Himself in the affairs of men.
    I know this because I studied in a seminary which taught these things were true.....or rather untrue.

    I have encountered many differing opinions in these pages, most of which are studied and display deep reflection.

    Unfortunately what you say is quite true of the majority of the general population. In fact, I believe that you are being rather conservative in your statement that "they've been taught since childhood".
    From what I've observed, many weren't taught anything during childhood. Their personal philosophy is as far removed from Biblical standards as the night is from day.

    In these pages - scholarship. In Christendom as a whole - fiction, fantasy, malaise, and manure.
     
  10. John Zain

    John Zain Newbie trainee

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    I really do appreciate your confirmation and agreement.

    15 years ago, my wife and I helped with a conference in Salt Lake City, Utah.
    For 4 days, we lived in a house with a family who for 30 years had been living next door
    to a Mormon family, and had been witnessing to them during all of this time.
    The Mormon family wouldn't budge from their long-standing ancestral beliefs.
    Yes, once deeply ingrained, false spiritual beliefs usually are very difficult to be uprooted.
    They can be quite like an additction, or like a bondage.
    Bondages are very powerful habits, practices, beliefs, etc.
    And many of them are spiritual problems (and many are satanically inspired).

    More than 10 years ago, the Moderator of the United Church of Canada
    (a large Protestant organization which belongs to the World Council of Churches)
    announced that the Holy Spirit was only a "force" and that Jesus was not God.
    Obviously, Satan had got ahold of him, and changed his thinking.
    After a few years of this, the church removed him from their top position.

    It's good that some people have the time to try and educate our brothers and sisters
    about various very important points concerning spiritual Truths.
     
  11. BritGuy

    BritGuy New Member

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    A person is not a brother or sister in the Lord until they have actually been born again by receiving His Spirit (otherwise known as the baptism in the Holy Spirit, evidenced by speaking in tongues as detailed for us in scripture).

    Until a person gets this they cannot understand spiritual things

    "Except a man be born again, he cannot see (understand) the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

    "as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
    ...For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
    ... the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
    (1 Cor.2:9, 11, 14)
     
  12. John Zain

    John Zain Newbie trainee

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    The born-again experience that you are talking about
    is not the same experience as the baptism with the Holy Spirit,
    which basically just gives the believer more of everything spiritual.
     
  13. BritGuy

    BritGuy New Member

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    No, the baptism in the Spirit is a synomymous term for receiving or being born of the Holy Spirit.
    It is receiving the new Life, salvation.
    I don't believe you have received this revelation so you say what you have been taught by men.
     
  14. Paul

    Paul Member

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    I am curious to know why you chose the word "understand" for "see?"
     
  15. John Zain

    John Zain Newbie trainee

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    John 3:3 in the Amplified Bible:
    "... unless a person is born again (anew, from above),
    he cannot ever see (know, be acquainted with, and experience) the kingdom of God."

    "To see the kingdom of God is the same as to enter it. We cannot see it unless we enter it."
    (The Applied New Testament Commentary)

     
  16. BritGuy

    BritGuy New Member

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    What better word is there for accurately and clearly conveying what is meant, without confusion?

    What word would you use?

    "see" could be taken to mean see with your natural eyes which is not true because
    " The kingdom of God cometh not with observation " (Luke 17:20)
     
  17. pgfinest2002

    pgfinest2002 New Member

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    One point.

    You said the Judean Jews wanted to know how to receive the Holy Spirit.

    That is not entirely true.

    There were more than Judean Jews on hand. There were devout Jews present who lived throughout the Diaspora, not just the Judean Jews.

    A large number of Jews in Jesus' day did not live in the Holy Land. They lived in the Disapora. They returned to Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of Pentecost.

    Luke tells us these disciples were: Parthians, Medes, Elamites, dwellers in Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia, etc. (see Acts 2:9-11 for a list of the lands in which these devout men to God were born.

    One other thing (because I'm dealing with this personally right now)

    A lot of people say you must receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire.

    If you notice, in Luke 3:16, John the Baptist mentions that Jesus baptizes with the "Holy Ghost" and "fire."
    John the Baptist then tells us in v. 17 what that baptism entails.

    IN Acts (written by the same Luke) Jesus only mentions the baptism of the Holy Ghost when speaking with the disciples, but does not mention the fire at all.

    Acts 1:5 - For John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

    So the baptism of the Holy Ghost and the baptism of fire are not inclusive of each other it appears, because, according to Luke, Jesus does not even mention the baptism of fire in His orders to the apostles.

    Another point to remember, is the Feasts in the OT represent a prophetic chronology of Jesus' ministry and work.

    The four feast celebrated in the spring by the Jews were:

    Passover
    Unleavened Bread (apparently celebrated with Passover in Jesus' day)
    Firstfruits
    Pentecost

    You find these feasts (or appointed times) in the OT and in each, you will see Christ's work described.
     
  18. BritGuy

    BritGuy New Member

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    There is "one baptism" (Eph.4:4-5) referring to the baptism by which we put on Christ, the baptism in the Spirit.

    The Spirit is a Spirit of fire since God is a consuming fire.

    The fact that the same details are not always repeated simply means that different people are emphasising different things - you see that time and again in the 4 gospel accounts.

    You can spend time reading the passages and proving this point if you like but remember the disciples didn't have all the theology, lexicons, concordances etc that we have today, they just made sure they followed Jesus' instruction.

    As a result they all (120 actually) received what he had been tallking about, then they began to clearly understand and faithfully took the same message to others... no debate or doubt.


    Actually there were 7 feasts. Since we are referring to Pentecost it's worth noting from the Lawthat only this feast allowed (inded required) the offering with leaven and a new meat offering.
    Leaven represents sin so this is the way in for natural man under sin... how he becomes able to become a new meat offering, worshipping in newness of life.

    "..after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the Lord.
    Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven" (Lev. 23:16-17)
     
  19. rjp34652@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Choir Loft

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    Much of the confusion about this spiritual reality has to do with English words, not scripture.
    The words, which describe the mechanics of the spiritual experience, are 'filled' and 'received'.

    The example best used here is the invitation of house guests.
    The invocation of a spirit be it holy or otherwise is the same as an invitation to a human friend to visit one's house.
    invocation = invititation.

    Once the Holy Spirit is involked, it appears at the front door.
    Receiving the Holy Spirit is the same thing as opening the door to guests at one's home.
    opening = receiving

    When our guests actually enter our home they may be said to have filled our dwelling.
    entering = filling

    In actual fact, the Bible says that spirits refer to our bodies as a 'house', so the example is not so foreign as one might initially believe.

    Involking, receiving and the filling of the Holy Spirit are actually words used to describe a simple spiritual (and physical) process. That's all there is to it. You've either got the Holy Spirit as a guest within or you don't.

    Have you involked the Holy Spirit into your life?
    When It came did you receive It and allow It to fill your life?
     
  20. pgfinest2002

    pgfinest2002 New Member

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    My response britguy. John said Jesus would baptize with the Holy Ghost and fire.
    He then tells us what the Holy Ghost baptism is and what the baptism by fire is.

    Matthew 3:11-12
    "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and fire:

    Now what is the fire?

    v. 12 - Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner (His wheat, Holy Ghost baptism here); but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

    Saints are referred to as wheat in the parable of the wheat and tares (Matt. 13:24-42). As are the chaff in Matt. 3, the tares are burned up. That is why I believe in the context, fire is reserved for the unrighteous. John was addressing both those who would believe and those who would not.

    I have no problem with people saying God is a consuming fire and meaning it as a means of purifying. But in the context, I believe John was speaking of a judgement here when he mentions the fire.

    And I agree there is one baptism, not two. The baptism of the Spirit is for ALL believers and ALL believers partake of this baptism as it is pointed out in Ephesians and I Corinthians. WE can not say someone does not have the Spirit because they do not speak in tongues, do miracles, etc. For Paul says if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. (Romans 8:9)

    A note on Pentecost. I am aware of the other feast which are done in the fall. The feast done in the spring point to Christ's work (as do they all)
    Jesus is the Passover Lamb.
    Jesus cleanses from sin (or leaven)
    Jesus was the firstfruit from the dead.
    Jesus sends the Spirit (10 days after his ascension) to place the law of God in our hearts.
     
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