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The Bible identifies the whore of Babylon as Jerusalem.

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by sk0rpi0n, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. sk0rpi0n

    sk0rpi0n New Member

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    I originally wanted this to be posted in the eschatology section, but it turns out I am not allowed to post there.
    Can mods/ admin move it to that part of the forum?


    1. Introduction to the whore
    The book of revelation is known to contain a lot of symbolic imagery. One of these symbols happens to be a “whore”, adorned in scarlet and gold. She is depicted as sitting on a beast with 7 heads and 10 horns (the same as the first beast) and is drunk with the blood of saints and prophets. In the same chapter we also read that the seven horns represent seven hills, and towards the end of the chapter, the whore is revealed to be a city. Bear in mind this imagery, as we will be going over them one by one.


    2. Using the Bible to identify the whore
    A lot of Christians identify the “whore” or the city as being related to the Vatican city or Catholicism. This is a falsehood perpetrated by those with an anti-Catholic bias. I am not defending the Catholic church, but the claim that the “whore” is the Vatican is simply not in line with what the Bible teaches.
    Anybody who is serious about deciphering the Biblical concept of the “whore” needs to use the Bible as a guide… not their own imaginations and biases. Going by the verses in revelations 17:18, we know that the whore represents a certain city. This city can be profiled as having the following traits:
    a> Has the blood of saints and holy men
    b> Sits on seven hills
    c> Adorned in scarlet and gold / killed by her lovers


    The key to Biblically identifying the whore is to pinpoint exactly what city in the Bible matches all of the whores traits. Upon reading the Bible, we learn that there is only one entity in the entire Bible that matches up to the whores description. Jerusalem.
    If we were to go over the whores traits and compare it to Jerusalem, we see that :

    a>Jerusalem – killer of saints and holy men
    Jesus himself said of Jerusalem…

    Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets-Matthew 23:29-31

    That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.-Matthew 23:35

    “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you,-Matthew 23:37

    Only Jerusalem is accused of the same crime as the whore… of having spilled the blood of holy men and saints. This alone should be enough to establish the identity of the whore as Jerusalem.

    b> Jerusalem – a city on seven hills.
    Jerusalem makes the list of List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills
    - The northern summit (hill) is called Scopus (Hill One)
    - The middle summit (hill) was called Nob (Hill Two)
    - The highest point of Olivet itself, and the southern summit (hill) was called in the Holy Scriptures the “Mount of Corruption” or “Mount of Offence” (Hill Three)
    - On the middle ridge between the Kedron and the Tyropoeon Valleys there was (formerly) in the south “Mount Zion” (Hill Four)
    - The “Ophel Mount” (Hill Five)
    - To the north of that the “Rock” around which “Fort Antonia” was built (Hill Six),
    - The southwest hill itself (Hill Seven)

    c> Jerusalem – Adorned in scarlet and gold / Killed by her lovers
    First, these are the colors associated with the Jewish “priesthood” who Jesus condemned.

    Have them use gold, and blue, purple and scarlet yarn, and fine linen.
    “Make the ephod of gold, and of blue, purple and scarlet yarn, and of finely twisted linen—the work of skilled hands. It is to have two shoulder pieces attached to two of its corners, so it can be fastened. Its skillfully woven waistband is to be like it—of one piece with the ephod and made with gold, and with blue, purple and scarlet yarn, and with finely twisted linen.-Exodus 28:5-8

    “Fashion a breastpiece for making decisions—the work of skilled hands. Make it like the ephod: of gold, and of blue, purple -Exodus 28:15

    Make pomegranates of blue, purple and scarlet yarn around the hem of the robe, with gold bells between them -Exodus 28:33

    www.biblegateway.com…

    Gold = mentioned 16 times
    Purple = mentioned 5 times
    Scarlet = mentioned 5 times


    Then, only Jerusalem is described in the Bible as being adorned in scarlet and gold. We read in Jeremiah:
    And you, O desolate one, what will you do? Although you dress in scarlet, Although you decorate yourself with ornaments of gold, Although you enlarge your eyes with paint, In vain you make yourself beautiful; Your lovers despise you; They seek your life. I hear a cry as of a woman in labor, a groan as of one bearing her first child-the cry of the Daughter of Zion gasping for breath, stretching out her hands and saying, “Alas! I am fainting; my life is given over to murderers.”
    -Jeremiah 4:30-31

    Now compare that verse with these ones in Revelations…
    And the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality – Revelation 17:4

    And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. – Revelations 17:16

    “Daughter of zion” is a clear reference to Jerusalem. Just like the whore, she too is described as being adorned in scarlet and gold. And just like the whore, her former lovers turn against her and kill her. The whores is also destroyed by the 10 horns, who are revealed as kings and her former lovers in Revelations 17:2.
    Several times im the bible, explicit sexual imagery has been used to describe Jerusalem / Israel’s unfaithfulness. Off the top of my head, 2 entire chapters in the book of Ezekiel describe Israel as a “prostitute”. Ezekiel 16 and Ezekiel 23


    3. Jerusalem = the whore = the city of Babylon
    Another important point to note is that Revelations 17 ends with the destruction of the whore and the very next chapter details the destruction of a city, Babylon. To put it simply, Jerusalem is the whore… the whore is Babylon, the city that is to be destroyed.We read in Revelations 18 that the destroyed city called “Babylon” is….

    Adorned in scarlet and gold…
    “‘Woe! Woe to you, great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!
    -Revelations 18:16


    Has the blood of the prophets…
    In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people, of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”
    - Revelations 18:24


    Its a perfect match. The fact that Jerusalem is equated with Babylon is no surprise, considering in Revelations 11:8, Jerusalem is equated to Sodom and Egypt.
    We see that the descriptions of Jerusalem perfectly matches that of the whore. It is established that Jerusalem, and no other, is the whore of Revelations 17. Those who insist its the Vatican are either deluded or willfully deny whats there in their own Bibles.

    Conclusion : Jerusalem = whore = Babylon of Revelations 18.
     
  2. Arnie Manitoba

    Arnie Manitoba Well-Known Member

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    You forgot to show all the attributes of Babylon that do not coincide with Jerusalem
     
  3. Stephen100

    Stephen100 New Member

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    Actually, the beast and Antichrist is Islam. The Lord is going to destroy the nations that come against Jerusalem in the end times:


    SMALL SAMPLE OF MUSLIM NATIONS IN THE BIBLE

    Babylon--Isaiah 13
    Assyria and the Philistines (Palestinians)--Isaiah 14
    Moab--Isaiah 15
    Damascus--Isaiah 17
    Cush (Sudan and Somaliland)--Isaiah 18
    Egypt--Isaiah 19
    Egypt and Cush--Isaiah 20
    Babylon (Iraq and Arabia) and Edom (Arabia)--Isaiah 21
    Tyre (Lebanon)--Isaiah 23

    THE LORD WILL FIGHT AGAINST THE NATIONS THAT BATTLE AGAINST JERUSALEM

    "Behold, the day of the LORD is coming. And your spoil will be divided in your midst. For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. (Zechariah 14:1-3)

    "It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem." (Zechariah 12:9)

    DIVIDED LAND

    "I will also gather all nations, and bring them to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; And I will enter into judgment with them there on account of My people, My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations; They have also divided up My land." (Joel 3:2)

    When Jesus comes He is judging the people that have scattered His people and divided up His land. Who are the ones that want to scatter and destory Israel today? The Muslims!

    JUDGMENT ON ISRAEL'S ENEMIES

    "And there shall no longer be a pricking brier or a painful thorn for the house of Israel from among all who are around them, who despise them. Then they shall know that I am the Lord GOD. Thus says the Lord GOD: When I have gathered the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered, and am hallowed in them in the sight of the Gentiles, then they will dwell in their own land which I gave to My servant Jacob. And they will dwell safely there, build houses, and plant vineyards; yes, they will dwell securely, when I execute judgments on all those around them who despise them. Then they shall know that I am the LORD their God." (Ezekiel 28:24-26)

    EGYPT CONDEMNED AND CAST INTO THE PIT

    "The burden against Egypt. Behold, the LORD rides on a swift cloud, and will come into Egypt; The idols of Egypt will totter at His presence, and the heart of Egypt will melt in its midst." (Isaiah 19:1) "Son of man, wail over the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down to the depths of the earth, her and her daughters of the famous nations, with those who go down to the Pit." (Ezekiel 32:18).

    JUDGMENT ON THE PHILISTINES

    Thus says the Lord GOD: "Because the Philistines dealt vengefully and took vengeance with a spiteful heart, to destroy because of the old hatred, therefore thus says the Lord GOD: "I will stretch out My hand against the Philistines, and I will cut off the Cherethites and destroy the remnant of the seacoast. I will execute great vengeance on them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I lay My vengeance upon them." (Ezekiel 25:15-17)

    ISRAEL'S ENEMIES

    "For behold, Your enemies make a tumult; And those who hate You have lifted up their head. They have taken crafty counsel against Your people, and consulted together against Your sheltered ones. They have said, 'Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation, that the name of Israel may be remembered no more." (Psalm 83:2-4)

    JUDGMENT ON EDOM (YEMEN TO SAUDI ARABIA)

    "Who is this who comes from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah, this One who is glorious in His apparel, traveling in the greatness of His strength?--'I who speak in righteousness, mighty to save.' Why is Your apparel red, and Your garments like one who treads in the winepress? I have trodden the winepress alone, and from the peoples no one was with Me. For I have trodden them in My anger, and trampled them in My fury; their blood is sprinkled upon My garments, and I have stained all My robes. For the day of vengeance is in My heart, and the year of My redeemed has come." (Isaiah 63:1-4)

    In Isaiah 63:1-4 we see the Messiah emerging out of Edom with His robes literally sprinkled with blood. He came the first time as a lamb to be a humble servant and to die as our sacrifice, but when He returns the second time He is coming as a mighty, conquering lion.

    ARMAGEDDON AND LEBANON

    In Psalm 29 we find a clear connection between the Battle of Armageddon and the nation of Lebanon: "The voice of the Lord breaks the cedars, Yes, the Lord splinters the cedars of Lebanon" (Psalms 29:5) Muslim Lebanon will be destroyed. But this passage is speaking about the Battle of Armageddon: "The voice of the Lord shakes the wilderness; The Lord shakes the wilderness of Kadesh." (Psalm 29:8) Kadesh is the valley of Megiddo "Har-Megiddo"--Armageddon: "And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon" (Revelation 16:16). This is an End-Times event: "And in His temple everyone says, "Glory!"(v.9) "And the Lord sits as King forever."(v. 10).

    MOAB (JORDAN) SHALL BE TRAMPLED DOWN

    "And it will be said in that day: 'Behold, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us. This is the LORD; we have waited for Him; we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation.' For on this mountain the hand of the LORD will rest, and Moab shall be trampled down under Him, as straw is trampled down for the refuse heap." (Isaiah 25:9-10)

    EGYPT, SUDAN, LIBYA, TURKEY AND ARABIA WILL FALL BY THE SWORD

    "Cush and Put, Lydia and all Arabia, Libya and the people of the covenant land will fall by the sword along with Egypt" (Ezekiel 30:5). Put or Phut is a reference to North Africa and includes the regions west of Egypt. Lydia was a central western region of Turkey. They will all be destroyed along with the Antichrist. These nations are in "league" or in "covenant" and allied with the Antichrist.

    SYRIA, IRAQ, IRAN, AND TURKEY WILL FALL BY THE SWORD

    "Assyria is there and all her company: his graves are about him: all of them slain, fallen by the sword: Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave; all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living" (Ezekiel 32:22-23). Assyria and "all her company" could include several Middle Eastern nations including Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Turkey as well as Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan and Saudi Arabia. They will all be cast into the pit.

    JORDAN, SAUDI ARABIA WILL GO DOWN TO THE PIT

    "There is Edom, her kings, and all her princes, which with their might are laid by them that were slain by the sword: they shall lie with the uncircumcised, and with them that go down to the pit" (Ezekiel 32:29) In the strict sense, Edom is comprised of the southern parts of Jordan but here the text states "her kings" (plural). This encompasses Arabia. In many passages, Edom has come to represent the greater portion of the enemies of Israel that live to her south and east.

    TURKEY, LEBANON WILL GO DOWN TO THE PIT

    "There be the princes of the north, all of them, and all the Sidonians, which are gone down with the slain; with their terror they are ashamed of their might; and they lie uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword, and bear their shame with them that go down to the pit (Ezekiel 32:30). All the "princes of the North" refers to Turkey and her allies. And Sidon once again refers to Lebanon. They are both cast "down to the pit."

    TURKEY AND THE TURKIC NATIONS SOUTH OF RUSSIA WILL GO DOWN TO THE PIT

    The Turkic Nations include nations such as Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan: "There is Meshech, Tubal, and all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword, though they caused their terror in the land of the living. And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the might in the land of the living." (Ezekiel 32:26-27)

    TYRE, SIDON, AND PHILISTIA CONDEMNED

    "Indeed, what have you to do with Me, O Tyre and Sidon, and all the coasts of Philistia? Will you retaliate against Me? But if you retaliate against Me, swiftly and speedily I will return your retaliation upon your own head." (Joel 3:4)

    A WARNING TO THE ENEMIES OF MOUNT ZION

    "It shall even be as when a hungry man dreams, and look--he eats, but he awakes, and his soul is still empty; or as when a thirsty man dreams, and look--he drinks; but he awakes, and indeed he is faint, and his soul still craves: so the multitude of all the nations shall be, who fights against Mount Zion." (Isaiah 29:8)

    LEBANON WILL FALL

    "He will cut down the thickets of the forest with iron, and Lebanon will fall by the Mighty One." (Isaiah 10:34)

    THE LORD WILL FIGHT FOR MOUNT ZION

    For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof. As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it. (Isaiah 31:4-5)

    ISRAEL BELONGS TO THE JEWS

    "I will accept you as a sweet aroma when I bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you have been scattered; and I will be hallowed in you before the Gentiles. Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I bring you into the land of Israel, into the country for which I raised My hand in an oath to give to your fathers." (Ezekiel 20:41-42)

    Islam in Revelation 17:


    In the book of Revelation, the Apostle John gives us a very vivid description of an End Times beast. Please pay attention to Revelation 17:10-11:

    "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." (Revelation 17:10-11).

    There are several reasons why Revelation 17 cannot be referring to Rome or Europe, but rather to the Islamic Empire. The seven heads are not Rome or the Vatican. They are seven heads and are called seven mountains and seven kings. In the Bible mountains are symbolic of kingdoms or empires, therefore this cannot be referring to Rome or Vatican because to say that Rome or Vatican has seven kingdoms would be foolish and wouldn't make any sense. In the Bible mountains are symbolic for kingdoms or empires. How could Rome be situated on seven hills that are also seven kings, each with a name of blasphemy on it? That just doesn't make any sense.

    This passage gives us an insight into the fact that before Jesus returns, there will actually have been a total of eight "Beast" empires. The eighth empire will be ruled by the Antichrist, the beast who once was, and now is not, is an eigth king. At the time Revelation was written, five of the empires had already fallen. This is seen in the phrase, "five have fallen." These empires are:

    1. The Egyptian Empire
    2. The Assyrian Empire
    3. The Babylonian Empire
    4. The Persian Empire
    5. The Greek Empire

    After these five, the angel tells John that one mountain (empire) "is." At the time that John wrote the Book of Revelation, this was the Roman Empire. It ruled the Middle East, Northern Africa and much of Europe.

    6. The Roman Empire

    So the seventh empire is the one we need to identify. According to the verse above, the eighth empire will be a resurrection or a revival version of the seventh empire. "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." In John's day the seventh empire did not yet exist. This would dismiss the empire that John was under: the Roman Empire. So, what was the seventh empire that followed Rome?

    The most common belief held almost universally by Bible teachers is that the Antichrist empire will be a revived Roman Empire. There are some glaring problems with this theory: First, Rome was the sixth empire. If Rome was the sixth, and it comes again as the seventh, then what do we do with the eighth? Do we have three revivals of the Roman Empire? This theory has a gaping hole. Is Rome the sixth, seventh and also the eighth empires? Neither Scripture nor history nor common sense supports this notion. Yet many prophecy teachers ignore this glaring problem.

    The seventh Empire was the Turkish Ottoman Empire led by Mehemet II. The Islamic empire took over the Eastern Roman Empire in 1453 A.D. and crushed all the previous empires, just like Daniel 2:40 said it would. About 1924 the Christian world leveled a significant blow to Islam. The Office of the Caliph was abolished. So while it was the Islamic Empire that succeeded the Roman Empire, it was the Christian West that offered Islam a series of defeats that led to the severing of its head, the office of the Caliph in 1924. A few years later Islam started to revive itself and is now growing rapidly. The deadly wound is being healed. Revelation is clear that the eighth empire will be of the seven. The eighth empire will be an Islamic empire led by the Antichrist Madhi and the false prophet, which I believe to be Isa, the Muslim Jesus.
     
  4. sk0rpi0n

    sk0rpi0n New Member

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    @stephen100

    Isaiah 42 describes the arrival of Mohammad and the destruction of Arabia's idols and the establishment of Abrahamic monotheism.
     
  5. Stephen100

    Stephen100 New Member

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    I have just quoted a load of scriptures that show the Lord fighting Islamic nations in the end times. You can either acknowledge them, or you can ignore them.
     
  6. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Rev_11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

    Where was the Lord crucified?
     
  7. sk0rpi0n

    sk0rpi0n New Member

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    There are also tons of scriptures that show God will severely punish Israel and Jerusalem. The OP is about how the bible identifies the whore as Jerusalem, and so it is Jerusalem that will be severely punished.... much more than those muslim countries.
     
  8. Stephen100

    Stephen100 New Member

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    That's not true at all. Show me a few verses where God will destroy Israel in the end times? I've quoted a ton of scriptures where God is going to destroy the Islamic nations. Quote some verses where God is going to destroy Jerusalem in the end times.
     
  9. Niki

    Niki New Member

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    No. It doesn't. Not at all. Heard this before. It just isn't true.
     
  10. Polt

    Polt New Member

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    The whore of Babylon was Jerusalem and God has already destroyed her for her unfaithfulness.. The new Jerusalem is the church.

    Luke 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near." Keep your antichrist-inspired theology or accept what the Bible plainly says. I could show you a few verses, but one is enough.

    As for your post about Muslims countries, you've taken prophecies that were fulfilled at the time of Christ, or before, and arbitrarily applied them to modern Muslim countries.
     
  11. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    Incorrect...this has not happened yet...this city is the center of world trade and exists during the period of the beasts reign. Revelation 17:8


    no it's not...it's the holy city that descends from heaven. Revelation 21:9-10 :huh: I do not believe in replacement theology.

    Shalom!
     
  12. daq

    daq HSN#1851

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    Yeshua was crucified in the flesh according to the Scripture:

    Romans 8:3-4 KJV
    3. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
    4. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


    1 Peter 3:18 KJV
    18. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the spirit:

    1 Peter 4:1-2 KJV
    1. Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
    2.
    That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

    It is symbolic of Jerusalem of below, the great city of the man is "the flesh", Hagar the Egyptian, and Pharaoh "great of flesh".
    Otherwise technically Yeshua was crucified outside the literal city. It is the allegory of the two Covenants (Galatians 4:22-26). :)
     
  13. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    ..so you do not think that this is a literal event or something in the future? I will have to agree to disagree with you on this one dear brother ^_^

    Bless you!
     
  14. daq

    daq HSN#1851

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    The only legitimate alternative is one form or another of what is offered in the OP.

    However the Master says:

    Matthew 5:33-35 KJV
    33. Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
    34. But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
    35. Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.


    This is not in any way to suggest that the OP has "sworn" anything but as for myself I refrain in every possible way from being found to have defamed the name of the city of the Great King whether speaking of the physical or the spiritual. Yet we do have an explanation given in the New Covenant writings concerning the concept of a city which is "spiritually called Egypt" (Revelation 11:8) because Hagar was an Egyptian:

    Galatians 4:22-29 ASV
    22. For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, one by the handmaid, and one by the freewoman.
    23. Howbeit the son by the handmaid is born after the flesh; but the son by the freewoman is born through promise.
    24. Which things contain an allegory: for these women are two covenants; one from mount Sinai, bearing children unto bondage, which is Hagar.
    25. Now this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia and answereth to the Jerusalem that now is: for she is in bondage with her children.
    26. But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
    27. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband.
    28. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
    29. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now.


    The passage clearly concerns the opposition and enmity between the Spirit and the Flesh. The passage likewise clearly concerns an allegory and is even stated to be such. The passage clearly concerns the two covenants which are really the one covenant but seen through the two main different mindset-perspectives of either the Spirit or the Flesh. Jerusalem of above is likened to Sarah, the mother of the Promise, while Jerusalem of below is likened to Hagar the Egyptian who was the mother of the physical child "born after the flesh". Jerusalem of above is our mother while the city of below is portrayed, in Revelation 17, as the mother of harlots. Likewise there are "two Mountains" in reference herein even though the passage only mentions Sinai, (note that conversely Ishmael is also not mentioned but assumed by the context). When Sinai is mentioned then by default Horeb is also referenced. However, although these are commonly thought to be the same mountain, they are not the same: Sinai is the allegory of the physical, natural, earthly mountain, while Horeb is quite clearly the spiritual-supernal Mountain of God wherein the Malak of YHWH first appeared to Moses in the burning bush, (Exodus 3:1). Thus we have the two covenants; and the women are the cities are the covenants, the one seen through the eyes and mind of the Spirit, and again the same covenant but rather seen through the eyes and mind of the Flesh.

    Romans 10:5-8 KJV
    5. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
    6. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
    7. Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
    8. But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart:
    that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
    9. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    Therefore the one who truly confesses Yeshua as Adon-Lord-Master confesses faithfulness, trust, and reliance, not only upon the Word of Yeshua which is recorded in the Gospel accounts but likewise also the Word of Torah and Tanak; for the Gospel confesses that "In the beginning was the Word" (John 1:1). And this passage from Romans is quoted from a section of Torah which includes circumcision of the heart, so that we might love YHWH our Elohey with all of our heart, and with all of our soul, and live:

    Deuteronomy 30:6-15 KJV
    6. And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
    7. And the Lord thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
    8. And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the Lord, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
    9. And the Lord thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the Lord will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers: [i.e. Abraham]
    10. If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
    11. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
    12. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say,
    Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
    13. Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
    14. But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
    15. See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

    1) Spirit -vs- Flesh
    2) Isaac -vs- Ishmael
    3) Sarah -vs- Hagar
    4) Mount Horeb -vs- Mount Sinai
    5) Jerusalem of Above -vs- Jerusalem of Below
    6) Covenant Mother -vs- Mother of Harlots
     
  15. Dumparoo

    Dumparoo New Member

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    What is this The Hunt For Red October? Just read the whole bible and then go back to page one and start over...Simple as that...
     
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