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Featured The biblical necessity of a Pretribulation Rapture

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Enoch111, Nov 10, 2018 at 4:28 PM.

  1. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Most Christians do not seem to understand the biblical necessity of a Pretribulation Rapture. But a proper study of the whole Bible confirms that it is a divine necessity. Here are the reasons why it is necessary for the Church (the children of God on earth, Jews and Gentiles in one Body) to be taken out, and taken up to Heaven, before the reign of the Antichrist, and the Tribulation and Great Tribulation which are connected to his reign.

    1. The Antichrist cannot take TOTAL CONTROL of the earth until and unless the Church (indwelt by the Holy Spirit) and the Holy Spirit Himself are “taken out of the way”. The Holy Spirit is the Divine Restrainer of Satan and the Antichrist. See 2 Thessalonians 2.

    2. The Tribulation is primarily an expression of the wrath of Satan against the Jews, and particularly against the believing remnant of Jews (Daniel 12 and Revelation 12). This is called “the time of Jacob’s trouble” and has nothing to do with the Church. At the same time, God begins to pour out His judgments upon the earth. There are seven trumpet judgments, and the first six belong to this period. Revelation 8-13.

    3. It is the Antichrist who sets up the Abomination of Desolation in the future temple at Jerusalem. This is called “the image of the Beast” in Revelation 13. And all those who refuse to worship this image are beheaded. These are the Tribulation saints (primarily Jews), since the whole Church is certainly not beheaded.

    4. It is the Abomination of Desolation which triggers the Great Tribulation on earth (see Matthew 24). The seventh trumpet judgment belongs to this period (Revelation 14-18). While that is happening on earth, the saints are all in Heaven for two reasons: (1) attendance at the Judgment Seat of Christ, in order to have their works judged, and to receive their rewards (2 Corinthians 5:10 and other passages) and (2) attendance at the Marriage of the Lamb as the Bride of Christ (Revelation 19). The Church is not only the Body and Building of Christ, but also the Bride of Christ, and unless the Marriage of the Lamb is accomplished, the Lord will not return to earth with His saints and angels (Revelation 19).

    5. The Tribulation is during the first half of Daniel’s 70th week (3 ½ years) while the Great Tribulation (also called the Day of the Lord) is during the second half of this week of years (3 ½ years, less some months). This entire period has nothing to do with the Church, and corresponds to Revelation 6-18. And it is significant that in these chapters of Revelation there is no mention of “church” “the church” or “churches”.
     
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  2. Keraz

    Keraz Member

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    The Biblical reason that there will never be a 'rapture to heaven', is that we are earth people and God has work for us to do here. He gave us the Great Commission; Matthew 28:19-20 and said He would be with us, spiritually; until the end; His Return.

    Until I hear directly from the Lord, I will continue to do the tasks He has given me, one of which is to refute false teachings wherever I see them.
     
  3. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    I’m guessing you have noticed how many ‘rapture’ threads are going on now. I believed in a rapture most my life. I believed from a far, semi-liking God from a distance. But to hear God was going to come for the ‘good’ people and hide them away... well I signed up to be raptured out of here. That is all it took. I would wait and He would come for me. Thank God He didn’t ...because if God had come to rapture the ‘good’ ones out...I would have been left behind.

    God gives the Spirit so that they(His) can endure to the end. Careful in planting in others they will not need to endure. Careful putting them in ‘the safe zone’ for they may get lazy and ignore “work out your salvation with fear and trembling” or “study to show thyself approved of God...not needing to be ashamed”.

    “the Holy Spirit is the Divine Restrainer of Satan and the Antichrist. God is what restrains death and evil? Where and when did God “restrain” the evil you said will be unleashed?

    The wrath of Satan...or God’s weapon for Wrath? Vessels of wrath fulfill wrath. Vessels of destruction, destory. But also vessels of mercy, fulfill mercy. Which overcomes? Why would He take us out? When we are created to ‘endure’ until the end?

    Nahum 1:8-15
    [8] But with an overrunning flood he will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue his enemies. [9] What do ye imagine against the Lord ? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time. [10] For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry. [11] There is one come out of thee, that imagineth evil against the Lord , a wicked counsellor. [12] Thus saith the Lord ; Though they be quiet, and likewise many, yet thus shall they be cut down, when he shall pass through. Though I have afflicted thee, I will afflict thee no more. [13] For now will I break his yoke from off thee, and will burst thy bonds in sunder. [14] And the Lord hath given a commandment concerning thee, that no more of thy name be sown: out of the house of thy gods will I cut off the graven image and the molten image: I will make thy grave; for thou art vile. [15] Behold upon the mountains the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace! O Judah, keep thy solemn feasts, perform thy vows: for the wicked shall no more pass through thee; he is utterly cut off.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018 at 11:31 AM
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  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    That's a complete misunderstanding. The Lord Jesus Christ has been clearly identified as the divine Bridegroom in the New Testament, while the Church (all the redeemed of the Lord) has been identified as the Bride. So the Rapture is the Bridegroom coming for His Bride personally (as depicted in Hebrew weddings), in order to fulfill the Marriage of the Lamb in Heaven. Unless all the saints are in Heaven with Christ, how can the Bride become the Lamb's Wife?

    REVELATION 19
    6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
    7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
    8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
    9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

    Yes. And "the end" is the Rapture.
    God is PRESENTLY RESTRAINING Satan and all the evil angels and demons. When that restraint is removed (at the start of the reign of the Antichrist) the whole world will be under THE TOTAL CONTROL and domination of Satan for 3 1/2 years (42 months). You would not recognize the world at that point.

    REVELATION 13
    1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were asthe feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
    4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
    6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
    7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
    8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
     
  5. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    How can there be children Born of God when there has been no marriage? Do children of the groom come before the marriage? (I ask this to not be disrespectful but really want to know.) are we born of Christ (Spirit) or not? How is there ‘seed’ that enters and matures into life, without a consummation? has He (the Spirit of God) entered into us or not?

    1 John 2:28-29
    [28] And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. [29] If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018 at 12:52 PM
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    The problem is, your entire view has not one scripture to support it directly in any point. It rests on one verse severed from scripture and lifted out of context, called "the gap". Scripture does not mention this gap. I call it "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre of the Bible". AKA Dispensationalism.
     
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  7. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    I just got finished on reading your post on the other (of many) rapture threads going. :D
    And, I was thinking to myself...why so MANY rapture threads...!!
    They are all stupid.
    Those that believe in it will never change their position.
    And those who do not...have probably come out of the group of those who do...we will never change our minds.
    Once free and 'seeing' , we don't return there again.

    The rapture ( that they teach) is just an opinion. Even though they present it as fact.
    Those who believe in it are just trying to persuade themselves ...they think that the more they say it, and agree together , that it somehow makes it truth!!! :)

    Bless you ...hugs ...Helen ♥︎
     
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  8. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Have you studied the Olivet Discourse? The gap which you scorn is right there, and those are the words of Christ. So let's look at the relevant verses:

    THE DESTRUCTION OF HEROD'S TEMPLE PREDICTED (70 AD)
    And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (Mk 13:1,2)

    After this Christ prophesied about the progression of events: false Christs, wars, rumors of wars, famines, pestilences, earthquakes, persecution of the apostles and Christians, false prophets, the increase in iniquity, and the apostasy of Christendom along with the preaching of the Gospel worldwide. Then Christ said this:

    THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION (FUTURE)
    When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: (Mt 24:15)

    What did Daniel say about this? Do you have any interest in this matter, since Jesus said "whoso readeth, let him understand", which means that when you have read Mt 24:25 YOU ARE YO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS, by going back to the book of Daniel. And here is what you will discover:

    And he [the prince that shall come (who) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary v 26] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (Dan 9:27)

    Now do you know what this "one week" is and how it relates to Revelation 13 through the Abomination of Desolation, and the image of the Beast, the Holy Place, and the forty two months assigned to the Antichrist and Satan? If you have not connected the dots, you should do so now, or forever hold your peace.
     
  9. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    So why don't you tell us what you have gleaned from Scripture about this matter (or have you dodged that altogether)?
     
  10. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Once again, you totally misunderstand the subject. The Marriage of the Lamb is a spiritual reality which indicates that just as in human marriage there is union and communion, in this spiritual and supernatural Marriage, there will be perfect union and communion with Christ and all His saints for eternity. It has nothing to do with procreation and children, since the saints of God are indeed the children of God, heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ.
     
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  11. Keraz

    Keraz Member

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    That is the problem; whole churchs are fixated on there being a 'rapture' to take them to heaven when things go bad. So for those people it is very difficult to change, they would lose their friends, alienate family and be looked upon as having lost their minds.
    Rapture believers never even consider that there is an alternative: the Lord does promise protection for those who call to Him on His Day of wrath. The point was made that the martyrs didn't receive protection, this is true; but the Day of the Lord's wrath is different, the forthcoming terrible Day when He will destroy His enemies will come upon everyone the whole world over. We Christians must stand firm in our faith, so that we will come thru it all unaffected. That is what is promised to His people.
     
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  12. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Do you see the tribulation of Matthew 24 involving the church? I don't.
     
  13. Keraz

    Keraz Member

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    We who refute the 'rapture to heaven' lie, repeatedly ask: Where is the scripture that plainly states that God will take His people to heaven?? We never see it, because it isn't there!

    It’s what we do see in the Bible, where the difference lies. In fact Jesus Himself says; humans going to heaven is impossible. John 3:13, John 7:34, Revelation 2:25-26, +

    People who read the whole Bible can establish the truth for themselves, that God's purpose is to have a people who will be His faithful believers, doing His will on earth. THAT is our purpose and our destiny!

    But a lot of people don't bother to find out this truth, they listen to teachers and read fictional books that say we can just be good people, churchgoers and tithers, and God will remove them to heaven. They are told this fantastic event will happen before any Judgement or testing of their faith. They are told it is the Jewish people who must face tribulation, not them.
    Pure Satanic deception and unbiblical lies.

    This scenario is not found anywhere in the Bible. It is made up from assumptions and making scriptures mean something they do not.
    So the 'rapture to heaven' believers will never convince anyone who seriously reads their Bible.

    The lazy people who accept doctrines from anywhere except the Bible, are deceived and because they choose to believe lies, the Lord has locked them into their delusions. Isaiah 29:9-12, and stopped their ears to the truth; 2 Timothy 4:4
     
  14. Keraz

    Keraz Member

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    I do, because there is no scripture that says we won't be on earth then.
    But Revelation 12:6-17 tells us that the faithful Christians will be taken to a place of safety on earth during the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns. But those Christians who failed to maintain their faith in God's protection, Daniel 11:32 and Zechariah 14:1-2, must remain in the holy Land, under the rule of the Anti-Christ for that period.
     
  15. Vexatious

    Vexatious Active Member

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    I installed a new gibberish filter, and it deleted your whole post. But, I did manage to cut and paste this thing you posted:

    1. The Antichrist cannot take TOTAL CONTROL of the earth until and unless the Church (indwelt by the Holy Spirit) and the Holy Spirit Himself are “taken out of the way”. The Holy Spirit is the Divine Restrainer of Satan and the Antichrist. See 2 Thessalonians 2.

    The Antichrist came in the first century, so said John, "This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already."

    The Bible doesn't say the Antichrist will have total control

    Etc.

    STOP LYING TO US, ENOCH111.
     
  16. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Active Member

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  17. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    You are right...I probably do misunderstand but I am not your enemy. I long and wait for the same as you, maybe differently but I still want the same: For Him to Reign. It seemed like a fair question. “Be fruitful and multiply and bring forth abundantly in the earth” has nothing to do with it?

    Isaiah 27:4-6
    [4] Fury is not in me: who would set the briers and thorns against me in battle? I would go through them, I would burn them together. [5] Or let him take hold of my strength, that he may make peace with me; and he shall make peace with me. [6] He shall cause them that come of Jacob to take root: Israel shall blossom and bud, and fill the face of the world with fruit.

    “...and fill the face of the world with fruit.” If the enemy’s name perishes and is cut off...then only ONE name remains and is sown and continues and it is His name.

    Romans 8:19-21 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. [20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, [21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
     
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  18. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    If one reads Matthew 24 carefully, conditions would show that it is a Jewish remnant that seems to be in view.
     
  19. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Twisting scripture to make it fit an agenda is not a substitute for direct quotes from scripture. You haven't any or you would have played your hand a long time ago.
     
  20. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Daniel 9:27
    [27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Galatians 4:27
    [27] For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

    Definition of consummation. 1 : the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage.

    Why does it matter and what does it have to do with the OP of the necessity of the rapture? Because you are forcing a pause that might not be there.
     
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