The Birthing

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soul man

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It is very rare I do this when writing but our dear sister "beta" brought up a good point about the birthing.
Her point being; it is not brought up much about gestation or some other natural act we know takes place in natural child birth.
When we look at scripture we see the same thing happening in spirit for a birthing process to take place.
I believe the reason we do not bring it up is because it is not brought to our attention, so we go into other things besides this wonderful thing our Father has done the moment we believed, okay getting started.

Very often I'm asked the question, "how does one get into Christ?" This seems like a logical question since most believers do not know very much about being in Christ, let alone knowing how they got there.

It is the most often spoke of doctrinal statement that is made in Scripture, the "in Christ" message is given to us by the Apostle Paul over 140 times as a doctrinal statement.

One of the most wonderful things about the final gospel of Paul, he never rebukes people for not knowing who they are in Christ, he just says they are and leaves it to the Holy Spirit to make it known.

Do you understand that the seed of God is Christ, and the moment you believed he placed His seed in you, Gal. 3:16
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
That constitutes the birthing, the cross in its full effect, death to the old man and now a new creation has been brought forth by God almighty.

So what is the birthing? The birthing is Christ in you the hope of glory.
Because Christians still sin and are left with the knowledge of Good and Evil to try to sort things out, some cannot accept the fact they are perfect in spirit, 1 Cor. 2:6
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

This is talking about maturity so lets keep looking.

Col. 2:10
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Just as Satan abused the soul as we drifted through the world thinking, acting like it was us that had began this sin thing, 1 John 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

So it is today that Christians are still fooled into believing they are the sinners, when all along it was him, Satan, that was the sinner from the beginning.
We were sinners but not anymore, we sin as believers but we are not Sinners, a sinner is an unregenerate individual.
And we did what we did by our nature, the nature compels the individual to sin and by that nature we were sinners.
You are created in the image and likeness of God, because of Adam we received the wrong father, John 8:44
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

We only partook of that sin, were we guilty, yes absolutely, but we were not the progenitor of that sin nature, that takes a father and Satan was the father of that nature. That nature is what Jesus killed out at the cross, all in Adam are dead in Christ.

And that will be another article:
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Do you understand that the seed of God is Christ, and the moment you believed he placed His seed in you, Gal. 3:16

Oh wow, I could go on and on about this topic but it seems most I encounter, don't want to go there. A few points, if I may, God does show us through His creation, doesn't He? I am not one to believe God wastes any opportunity to display His handy work. So, yes, gestation tells us a lot about what He is doing; bringing forth new life. Creating.

James 1:18
[18] Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Begat. Conceived. Birthed. One may assume this means only by "the Bible" but that is not true:

Genesis 15:1
[1] After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

Genesis 15:4
[4] And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

In 2 Corinthians 11:2 Paul(inspired by the Holy Spirit) says: For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Which I believe means one of the functions of Paul's Ministry was detangling others from the world and the Old Covenant of works of the Law and presenting them to Christ, as a chaste virgin. For what? For conception.

Same as with natural gestation: seeds are sown, there has to be fertility, only one seed needs to take, and God gives the increase. The really strange part is, Paul often referred to Himself as a part of the "parent"/ "father" that brought forth "children".

Thank you for the topic.
 
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soul man

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Oh wow, I could go on and on about this topic but it seems most I encounter, don't want to go there. A few points, if I may, God does show us through His creation, doesn't He? I am not one to believe God wastes any opportunity to display His handy work. So, yes, gestation tells us a lot about what He is doing; bringing forth new life. Creating.

James 1:18
[18] Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Begat. Conceived. Birthed. One may assume this means only by "the Bible" but that is not true:

Genesis 15:1
[1] After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

Genesis 15:4
[4] And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

In 2 Corinthians 11:2 Paul(inspired by the Holy Spirit) says: For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Which I believe means one of the functions of Paul's Ministry was detangling others from the world and the Old Covenant of works of the Law and presenting them to Christ, as a chaste virgin. For what? For conception.

Same as with natural gestation: seeds are sown, there has to be fertility, only one seed needs to take, and God gives the increase. The really strange part is, Paul often referred to Himself as a part of the "parent"/ "father" that brought forth "children".

Thank you for the topic.

What I see is we get the full Christ when we are born again (birthed ), it is the soul-mind being renewed to the facts.
That puts Paul as possibly the most important writer to the new creation Christian.
Thanks for your reply it really is a good idea to look at scripture from this standpoint. Looking forward to hearing more from you.
 

Helen

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Watching this...hope it continues on...
 
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Godssrvr

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So what is the birthing? The birthing is Christ in you the hope of glory.

I'm not trying to be mean spirited by saying this, but your comprehension of scripture is completely off concerning these truths. I doubt that I can help you recognize the error in your understanding, but maybe others will be helped in theirs.

Salvation is a spiritual truth and has nothing to do with your mortal person. Please recognize what Jesus said in John 3.

John 3:5-6
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Until you recognize scripture concerning salvation has only to do with the spiritual and not the physical until we are glorified, you will not be able to make sense of salvation truths as a whole from scripture. You will always have to bend the meaning of certain passages to make them support this doctrine. Please read what Paul wrote in Corinthians 15, recognizing the distinction made between the "natural" and the "spiritual". Also that the natural cannot enter the kingdom of God (vs50). It is still "corrupt"!

1 Corinthians 15:45-50
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
 

soul man

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I'm not trying to be mean spirited by saying this, but your comprehension of scripture is completely off concerning these truths. I doubt that I can help you recognize the error in your understanding, but maybe others will be helped in theirs.

Salvation is a spiritual truth and has nothing to do with your mortal person. Please recognize what Jesus said in John 3.

John 3:5-6
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Until you recognize scripture concerning salvation has only to do with the spiritual and not the physical until we are glorified, you will not be able to make sense of salvation truths as a whole from scripture. You will always have to bend the meaning of certain passages to make them support this doctrine. Please read what Paul wrote in Corinthians 15, recognizing the distinction made between the "natural" and the "spiritual". Also that the natural cannot enter the kingdom of God (vs50). It is still "corrupt"!

1 Corinthians 15:45-50
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
I as well appreciate you're comments, but I wouldn't be to quick to judge.
When an individual does not see something that is written, and one does, it does not make either wrong.
Their at different levels of understanding, religion on the other hand will have none of that, they need their listeners to be alike, see alike and so forth.
Patience is very crucial when searching the scriptures as well as reasoning with another believer.
 

Godssrvr

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Soul Man, Jesus made the clear distinction between the flesh and the spirit, and is teaching that the man born only of the flesh "cannot enter into the kingdom of God". Paul taught the same in 1 Corinthians 15:50-51. How do you reconcile your understanding of the old man being killed off, with clear scripture below saying mortal man remains unchanged?

John 3:5-6
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:50-51
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
 

bbyrd009

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by interpreting it a bit less literally, imo. one might be led to believe that an actual flesh person could not be spiritually reborn, reading that, if they chose to believe that way
 
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Godssrvr

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if they chose to believe that way

Exactly! A person has to "chose" to believe a certain way in order to support a certain doctrine, instead of searching the truth of the passage. Jesus *is* teaching that the flesh isn't reborn, but the spirit. This understanding is true all through scripture, but wilfull ignorance of those who wish to support a certain doctrine, purposely fail to recognize it!

Romans 8:9-11
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
 
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soul man

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You guys are saying things I didnt say, if you are going to quote, get the quote right I never said flesh was reborn.
Please start a thread and get us straightened out.
 

VictoryinJesus

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To be in Christ
To be born of God...
Is speaking of Spirit.
Christ...God...is and can only mean Spirit. That seems to be what the OP was referring to as natural gestation being a reflection of Spiritual gestation; those born of God. So, I don't understand the dispute? Am I missing something?
 

Godssrvr

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I never said flesh was reborn.
Please start a thread and get us straightened out.

By saying there is no flesh nature ("sin nature"), you are essentially saying the flesh has been reborn. That's the point you continue to keep yourself blind to. The flesh has not been changed......yet! It is *spiritually dead*, not *physically dead*. Until it is physically dead the same as it is already spiritually dead, we will have with us the very nature of sin.

Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
 

Godssrvr

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To be in Christ
To be born of God...
Is speaking of Spirit.

To be "in Christ" is speaking of our *s*pirit. "Christ in you" is His *S*pirit. There is a difference that should be recognized. Christ in you is the Spirit of God in us which is the "earnest" or guarantee of our salvation. Being "in Christ" is about our spirit being made one with Him. Being "in Christ" is having *already been* "quickened" (Eph. 2:5-6), "Christ in you" is *shall be* "quickened" (Romans 8:11).

1 Corinthians 6:17
But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God *in him*.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, *all things are become new*.

Colossians 2:11-13
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Ephesians 2:5-6
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: