The Body vs. The Bride

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Trekson

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[SIZE=12pt]The Body of Christ vs. The Bride of Christ [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Perhaps, because I'm a male of the species, I've always been uncomfortable with the description of the church as the Bride of Christ. As I've listened to various pre-trib preachers use the constant references of us as the bride of Christ, the discomfort has increased as I've sensed that this isn't just a "guy thing", I believe it is a misunderstanding derived from erroneous biblical interpretations. Some of the arguments they give for keeping the church out of the 70th week contrary to what the bible teaches is that "no bridegroom would make his bride suffer that way", or "we need to be in heaven for the marriage banquet during the seven years of Daniel's 70th week". They've even "made up" and embellished Jewish wedding customs that have no historical validity, to support what they teach. For example, there is no support for the bridegroom "kidnapping" his bride a week before the wedding. A term Zola Levitt has used to equate that with the rapture. Another pre-trib believer, Greg Killan, has written that John 14:2-3 was spoken to the bride by the groom as he left to prepare for the wedding. Again, there is no written historical documentation to support this. I've also heard it taught that Israel is the bride of Father God and the church is the bride of His Son, Jesus. The former has some scriptural support but the latter is not clearly stated in the bible. I believe that if the church was to be his bride then He would have clearly stated that fact somewhere in His teachings. I think it's important that it isn't there. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Dispensationalism is a doctrine of separation and God through Jesus is the author of unity. I consider myself sort of a quasi-dispensationa list. By that I mean, I recognize that Israel has a few future physical promises yet to come that will find their fulfillment in the millennium but all spiritual promises have found their completion and fulfillment through the church, which as you know, was basically just Jewish in origin for the first several years before Paul started preaching to the gentiles. Any doctrine that eternally separates the church from Israel should be considered false and subject to intense scrutiny.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Before we get into the NT teachings let's take a quick review of what the OT has to say on this subject. Jer. 3:14 - "Return, faithless people," declares the Lord, "for I am your husband. I will choose you—one from a town and two from a clan—and bring you to Zion. I believe this prophecy, which is the Lord speaking to the Jews is fulfilled in Rev. 14:1 - Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. Is.62 is speaking about the new name of Zion. Vs. 5 states - As a young man marries a maiden, so will your sons marry you; as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will your God rejoice over you. The virgin sons of Israel will marry Zion and/or the King of Zion who is Jesus Christ! (Rev.14:4). Jer. 14:18 tells us that Judah will unite (marry?) Israel. Jesus is also called the Lion of the tribe of Judah. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]This may surprise some of you but nowhere in the bible is the term, "the bride of Christ" used, however, the "body of Christ" referring to the church is used twice by Paul, once in 1 Cor. 12:27 and again in Eph. 4:12 and inferred in a few more places. Well then, where did this idea come from? Some have used the parable of the ten virgins as support but this really isn't logical once you dissect the passage.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Matt. 25: 1-13 - "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep. 6"At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!' 7"Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.' 9" 'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.' 10"But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut. 11"Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!' 12"But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.' 13"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]I can't argue the fact that Christ is sometimes pictured as a bridegroom but that doesn't automatically translate into the church being the bride. In this parable, believers or the church would equate to the ten virgins, a bride isn't mentioned at all although it could be implied that the ten virgins were keeping her company. This parable doesn't support the theory of imminence, but it does warn of preparation, readiness and what might happen to those who fail to watch. A couple of other things can be assumed by this passage, one is that they knew what exact day the wedding would be. They were at their posts, but the bridegroom was delayed. There is historical documentation that typically the bridegroom would arrive at 11:30 pm to pick up his bride and guests then they would proceed to the bridegroom's father's house for the midnight ceremony. Here, the bridegroom was delayed and the announcement didn't come until midnight. That is why the virgins fell asleep. They didn't know how long the delay would be. I think this fits a pre-wrath scenario quite nicely. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Another passage used is found in three of the gospels. Matthew, Mark and Luke, they are all the same. Matt. 9:15 - And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast. Christ is referring to himself as a bridegroom, but the disciples are called children of the bride chamber, the NIV words them as friends of the bridegroom. These were typically close friends of the groom who made sure all the preparations were made in their version of the "honeymoon suite" and where the actual ceremony would take place. If the disciples here are representative of the church, again they are not called the bride. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]A third reference can be found in John 3:29 - He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. Here, John, a servant and follower of Christ and God, refers to himself and which could include the rest of us as friends of the bridegroom, not the bride. A follow up to this verse is John 10:16 - And other sheep I have (gentiles), which are not of this fold (jews): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. (emphasis and conclusions mine) In John 9:15, the disciples are called guests of the bridegroom.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]A fourth reference sometimes used to describe the church as the bride is adapting the verse that compares Jesus, the head of the church to the husband as the head of the wife Eph. 5:23-25. Those that use this as support are, in my opinion, stretching scripture to coincide with their beliefs rather than taking it at face value and seeing it simply as a comparison. In this passage Paul uses marriage as an example of headship, submission and the importance of purifying our bodies or His body as the two, the head and the body will become one flesh. This would be the perfect place for the scriptures to state that the church is the bride of Christ, but it doesn't. In fact, Paul goes out of his way to re-emphasize we are His body at least three times and infers it a couple of more times.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Another verse commonly used to assert our “brideship” is 2 Cor. 11:2 - For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. In this verse, Paul is the one doing the betrothing, not God or Christ. Here is a short version of the story behind this chapter. The Corinthians were being swayed by false teachers and listening to some of them deriding Paul and his ministry and authority. In this chapter he is defending his apostleship and explaining to them that they should remain pure of heart and not to be easily persuaded to abandon their relationship with God. Corinth was a very paganistic place with several different idols being worshipped at the time around the city. People worshipped several gods at once to "cover their bases" in case one or more of them wasn't real. Paul is using the espousalship as an example of steadfastness and purity of worship to God alone. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]During the engagement period, a person, usually a friend of the bridegroom watched over the bride-to-be to ensure her purity and faithfulness prior to the wedding. If one was to have relations with another person during their engagement period, in those days, they would have been guilty of adultery and faced stoning or worse, as punishment. In this case, Paul is comparing his concern for their spiritual well-being with the friend of the bridegroom that ensures the purity of the virgin bride. When studying the bible it is just as important to understand what is not being said as well as what was said. There are at least two other places in scripture where Christ could have simply identified the church as his bride, but He did not. Matt. 12:50 - For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother." And in Matt. 22:30 - At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. In the first one He could have added wife and in the second one He could have added, for example, except for my marriage to all those that believe in me. The truth of unity is summed up by Christ in this one verse. John 10:30 - I and the Father are one" and the ultimate goal is the one stated above where Christ said that eventually there will be "one fold and one shepherd". This verse in no way alludes to there being a father's bride and a son's bride or Israel being God's and the church being Christ's, WE ARE ALL ONE IN HIM!! [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]However, the parable of the talents does show that there will be a heavenly hierarchy based on how well we served and obeyed Him. The wedding parable of Matt. 22 implies that the gentile church are guests to the wedding but we must make sure we have the proper wedding garment. What are the proper wedding garments? Simply put we are to be clothed with humility having our robes washed white by the blood of the Lamb (Rev.7:9). The church here is clothed differently from the bride of Rev. 19 whose white linen garments stand for "the righteous acts of the saints". We as believers in Christ don't have to earn our way to heaven, it is a free gift but the future bride of Christ must purify herself by their deeds.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]There are a few more scriptures, all in Revelation, that may shed some light on this subject. Rev. 21:2 - I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Rev. 21:9-10 - One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.
The two questions we must ask ourselves are: if the church is not the bride then who is? and what exactly is the best description for the church? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]In the first two, the bride is the New Jerusalem where all of us Christian and Jew will eternally reside together as one big, happy family. Rev. 19:7, emphasizes that wedding has come, utilizing the same future, present tense as is used to describe that the wrath of the Lamb is about to come in Rev. 6:17. Both clarify the fact that the event being spoken of has not yet occurred but is about to. This scripture is speaking of a time after the seven vials of wrath have been poured out; so from this verse alone the picture of the church as the pre-tribulational bride and our wedding being in heaven for the previous seven years has absolutely no foundation. From this passage we know that the wedding supper will take place after the 70th week is completed and the prophetic Feast of Tabernacles can equate to that wedding supper and that it will occur here on earth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]In the case of the prophetic wedding scenario, I suggest that it will be played out as follows.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]We know that the wedding supper takes place here on earth after the 70th week. We know that Christ is depicted as the bridegroom. Everything else is subjective and I don't declare the following as doctrine, just a different way of looking at things. The rest of the wedding party consists of: the bride, her virgin attendants, friends of the bridegroom and finally, the guests. I believe the New Jerusalem will come to earth after the millennium and won't be fully complete as one under God until the millennium is over and it is within the description of the New Jerusalem that we find the identity and place for all those who will abide with Him eternally.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]It is only because of Israel and God's design through that nation that we are able to enter into the city. There are twelve gates and the names of the twelve tribes of Israel are on those gates. In Rev. 7, God sets aside 12,000 from each tribe totaling 144,000. Guarding those gates are twelve angels. There are 12 foundations and on those are the names of the twelve apostles. The city is built upon Jesus Christ and His gospel which was the message entrusted to the apostles to bring to the world. He is the chief cornerstone and Jesus told Peter that upon him ("this rock") He would build His church or (ek kaleo) "called out ones".[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]As God the Father and God the Son are one I believe that, spiritually, they will have the same bride which based upon the city and OT teachings I believe is primarily Jewish. So here is how I see it all playing out: The friends of the bridegroom are the 12 apostles and the OT prophets and those Christians whose faithful service and obedience elevates them to that stature. Martyrdom may also play a role here. John the Baptist identified himself as a friend of the bridegroom and I believe he was representative of all the prophets that had come before. The guests are those gentile and jewish representatives of humanity that are allowed to enter the millennium after the sheep and goat judgment, to repopulate the earth. ( Matt. 22:2-14 and Matt. 25:31-46, Rev. 19:17 ). [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]If you multiply the length of the city of New Jerusalem by either the 12 foundations or the 12 gates you get 144,000. If you multiply the breadth or the height by either the 12 gates or 12 foundations, you get 144,000. The beginning of Rev. 14 tells us that the 144,000 are with Christ wherever he goes, like a bride would be, and they sing a new song that only they can know; perhaps a love song similar to the Song of Solomon. Jesus tells us that there is no marriage in heaven so I conclude that his bride must be an earthly one. The fact that they are either physical or spiritual virgins only emphasizes to me their purity as a bride. In Rev. 7:9 they are sealed and protected, as a bride would be, so I conclude the 144,000 are His bride. The virgin attendants would be the 12 angels that are guarding the gates of the city. They ensure that all who enter are pure and have not entered in by mistake.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]As the Body of Christ and as we grow and mature in Him we seem to acquire a deep, spiritual concern for the welfare of Israel. We want our nation to continue to protect her and we care about her spiritual condition as a groom would for his bride. We pray for her and dread the judgments that God will bring upon her but we also understand that this is necessary for her refinement through fire as we, His body, will also be refined through fire. We share the same concerns as our Best Friend and as the physical manifestation of the Groom's presence on Earth we must do all we can to ensure the safety, purity and well-being of His bride. Therefore I conclude that we the church as the Body of Christ are not the bride but are united with Christ as the bridegroom. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]There are so many different levels to eternity that we certainly can not know or understand them all, but Daniel tells us that in the end times; knowledge will increase and I believe this includes general human knowledge as well as a new and greater understanding of spiritual truths. Perhaps this one of them and God is calling us to a greater level of concern for Israel as befitting a groom towards a bride. Perhaps this will prepare us for the next level of spiritual warfare, especially when we see another man, the antichrist, try and woo her away from us. I think we will react with a spiritual jealousy and a greater determination to fight the good fight to protect as much of Israel as we can. We surely won't allow the gates of hell to prevail against us and though the scriptures tell us that many of us will be killed, we know that we will still be part of His armies that come to vanquish satan once and for all, until that time he is let loose for a season at the end of the millennium.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]I'm sure many of you will disagree with my assessment but I ask that you pray about it and keep an open mind. I'm sure some of you may feel that I'm robbing you of a special blessing by not being the bride but I think it greater to be part of the groom as members of Christ's body and I can see how this radical viewpoint could unite us Christians under the banner of love for Israel, as that will eventually become a greater concern for us and cause us to not be annoyed by the little things that divide us as a church but instead will unite us as an army who will never give up, who will not allow the god of this world to rest in peace. An army who will take that old song, Onward, Christian Soldiers as a battle cry for this world, who will put on the armor of God so that when that evil day comes, "you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints." ( Eph. 6:13-18 )

Rev. 22:17 - The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. This verse sums it all up for me. In vs. 16 Christ states that this message is for the church. The groom and the bride are (prophetically) complete. When the spirit and the bride say come, they are extending a wedding invitation to the world where; upon acceptance they become part of His Body. We are to partake of the wedding between the Groom and the 144,000, the combined righteous remnant of the tribes of Judah and the tribes of Israel as foretold by prophecy.
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n2thelight

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Well written,however I feel you can't seperate the body from the bride,as the Church is the body of believers which make up the bride..
 

Trekson

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Hi N2, I guess that's my point. You said: "the Church is the body of believers which make up the bride.." My question is why do you believe that seeing as the bible never actually claims the church is the bride?
 

Angelina

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I personally do not believe in Replacement theology and therefore do not believe that the Bride of Christ is the Church. I think that the Bride of Christ are those who have already been redeemed from the earth via death and resurrection in Christ and will someday return ie ~ The new Jerusalem. I think that the Church refers to the physical body of believers scattered among many Churches, still lving here on earth. :9qcrib:
 

n2thelight

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Trekson said:
Hi N2, I guess that's my point. You said: "the Church is the body of believers which make up the bride.." My question is why do you believe that seeing as the bible never actually claims the church is the bride?
Who can the bride be,other than the Church?The Church is the many memebered body of believers and if they are not the bride,again who?
 

n2thelight

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Angelina said:
I personally do not believe in Replacement theology and therefore do not believe that the Bride of Christ is the Church. I think that the Bride of Christ are those who have already been redeemed from the earth via death and resurrection in Christ and will someday return ie ~ The new Jerusalem. I think that the Church refers to the physical body of believers scattered among many Churches, still lving here on earth. :9qcrib:
Were those who died and redeemed as you say not part of the Church?
 

Trekson

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Hi N2, If you read the OP then you would see who I think the bride is.
 

n2thelight

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Trekson said:
Hi N2, If you read the OP then you would see who I think the bride is.
Reread it,think Im understanding what you're saying....However did not God marry and divorce Israel?So who is Israel?My thoughts is that Israel has always been the Church and the Church is the many membered body ,so I still have to conclude that we are the bride...
 

n2thelight

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I often ask who was Matt 24 written to,.and I get from rapturist that it was written to the Jew's ,and that is just not true....
 

Angelina

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n2thelight said:
Were those who died and redeemed as you say not part of the Church?
Yes but we are still in the flesh and only partially redeemed. We have a guarantee of that redemption in the form of the Holy Spirit dwelling in all born-again believers. 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5, Ephesians 1:14. We become fully redeemed when Christ comes again Hebrews 9:28 when we lose our physical tent 1 Corinthians 15:48-50, 2 Corinthians 5:1-4 or when God chooses for some to stay alive till the end.
 

Angelina

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Just as Christ was glorified through death and resurrection. I believe that the Church will also be glorified and resurrected as individual believers to make up the building [new Jerusalem] whose foundation is built upon the prophets and Apostles.

Ephesians 2
19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
 

Trekson

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Hi N2, To answer 2 of your questions, 1. I believe that Matt. 24 was spoken to the founding fathers of the church, the disciples.

The identity of the church is a little harder. Many falsely believe that the Rom. 11 account is saying that we as gentiles are grafted into Israel, but that's not true. The "tree" represents the "family" of God and Jesus is the Root. Previously, only Israelites and certain Gentiles that converted to Judaism could become part of that tree. However, only righteous Jews could, just being an Israelite by blood was insufficient. When Paul speaks of adoption, we are adopted into the family of God, NOT Israel. When Israeli branches are broken off, they don't stop being Israeli, they just are no longer members of that tree because of unbelief and unrighteousness. Christ and our faith in His completed work is our only connection to the tree. We are in Him, of Him, part of Him. We are His body, He is the head, we are the bridegroom, believing Israelites will be the bride for the sole purpose of complete unity as pictured by the NJ and exampled by marriage where two become one. Unity as exampled by the Trinity is the only purpose for all of it!
 

n2thelight

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Trekson said:
Hi N2, To answer 2 of your questions, 1. I believe that Matt. 24 was spoken to the founding fathers of the church, the disciples.

The identity of the church is a little harder. Many falsely believe that the Rom. 11 account is saying that we as gentiles are grafted into Israel, but that's not true. The "tree" represents the "family" of God and Jesus is the Root. Previously, only Israelites and certain Gentiles that converted to Judaism could become part of that tree. However, only righteous Jews could, just being an Israelite by blood was insufficient. When Paul speaks of adoption, we are adopted into the family of God, NOT Israel. When Israeli branches are broken off, they don't stop being Israeli, they just are no longer members of that tree because of unbelief and unrighteousness. Christ and our faith in His completed work is our only connection to the tree. We are in Him, of Him, part of Him. We are His body, He is the head, we are the bridegroom, believing Israelites will be the bride for the sole purpose of complete unity as pictured by the NJ and exampled by marriage where two become one. Unity as exampled by the Trinity is the only purpose for all of it!

Hello Trek

I believe Matt was written for the end time generation,which is us,as per the parable of the fig tree.

As for the Church and Israel the 2 can't be seperated,the Jew's make up only 2 tribes,who is Israel?
 

n2thelight

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Trekson said:
All 12 tribes are still Israel.

Not until Christ returns

Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:"

The above verse has yet to happen
 

n2thelight

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
What do you mean "in the wilderness?"

Acts 7:37 "This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, `A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; Him shall ye hear.' "

Acts 7:38 "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the Angel Which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our father: who received the lively oracles to give unto us."
 

Trekson

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Hi n2, "Not until Christ returns"

That is the time we are speaking of, is it not?
 

inchrist

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Trekson said:
In Rev. 7:9 they are sealed and protected, as a bride would be, so I conclude the 144,000 are His bride

I believe you are correct there, however where you are wrong is the idea believers in christ are not the bride. Despite the fact they have the fathers name written on their foreheads, which is exactly what bekievers in Christ have written on their foreheads.

Note that in Rev 14 it does not say“144 thousand people or individuals.” It can mean “144 thousand families or nations.”

Hebrew word for “thousand” means taught ones” or disciples. It can also mean “the strong leader,” or the “head of the household.”

The law of “first mention” in Numbers 1:2-16 suggests that the way Israel was always numbered was according to their heads of household.

So 144000 would be households, not individuals


The New Jerusalem is collective structure of a corporate body of peoples

Revelation 21:

16 And the city lies foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.


The city is foursquares in otherwords 144 x 144

Each of the 4 walls to this square city is 144 cubits according to the measure of a man.

The number 6 is the number of a man.

What this means is that each wall to this city is 144,000 cubits X 144,000 cubits. This means 144,000 head of households X 144,000 head of households.

144,000 x 144,000 is in biblical terms uncountable

What we have is a double portian inheritence that is promised to Israel

Isaiah 61:7 For your shame you shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.

In Numbers 31:4 where Israel is being given their inheritance; the English versions does not display the fact that the word “thousand from each tribe” is doubled.

This is how it reads in Hebrew Bemidbar (Numbers) 31:4 Send an Aleph Mattah (thousand branches) an Aleph Mattah (thousand branches) from each Mattah (tribe) of all the tribes of Yisraʼĕl for the campaign.

a thousand times a thousand

Again the double portion inheritance is prophesied over Rebekah, the mother of thousands of Millions. Its uncountable

Jacob promised a double portion inheritance. Its uncountable.

Ephraim promised a double portion inheritance. Its uncountable.

New Jerusalem symbolises this double portion inheritance

A 1,000 also represents Government

Numbers 31 as there were men set up as rulers over 1,000’s, and 10,000’s and, the number 144 is the combination of 12 Tribes X 12 Apostles.

New Jerusalem is the onestick.

Remember Christ said he goes and prepares a place for us...this is exactly what occurs in traditional jewish weddings the groom goes and prepares a place for his bride.

When you marry your wife, you dont marry the institution of marriage...you marry the person being your wife through the institution of marriage.

Like wise New jerusalem is a theocratic institution, a theocratic government, the mutlitudes who make up this institution or government is the bride.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Trekson said:
[SIZE=12pt]The Body of Christ vs. The Bride of Christ [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Perhaps, because I'm a male of the species, I've always been uncomfortable with the description of the church as the Bride of Christ. As I've listened to various pre-trib preachers use the constant references of us as the bride of Christ, the discomfort has increased as I've sensed that this isn't just a "guy thing",[/SIZE]
This may surprise some of you but nowhere in the bible is the term, "the bride of Christ" used, however, the "body of Christ" referring to the church is used twice by Paul, once in 1 Cor. 12:27 and again in Eph. 4:12 and inferred in a few more places.

As the Body of Christ and as we grow and mature in Him we seem to acquire a deep, spiritual concern for the welfare of Israel. We want our nation to continue to protect her and we care about her spiritual condition as a groom would for his bride. We pray for her and dread the judgments that God will bring upon her but we also understand that this is necessary for her refinement through fire as we, His body, will also be refined through fire. We share the same concerns as our Best Friend and as the physical manifestation of the Groom's presence on Earth we must do all we can to ensure the safety, purity and well-being of His bride. Therefore I conclude that we the church as the Body of Christ are not the bride but are united with Christ as the bridegroom.
Very interesting. I shall have to read it again a couple of times to take it all in. Very nicely done.

Something I will contribute along these same lines - which is not quite in agreement:

Comparison of the Jewish wedding to Christ’s first and second Advents:

• Acceptance of the Groom by a sharing a cup of wine ......• Jesus offered the Cup of Redemption as His body at the Seder Feast
• Payment of a dowry by prior agreement ..........................• Jesus payment on the Cross as set by God the Father

The next two are out of order from the wedding to what actually happened with Jesus and the Church. Like with the Festivals as Paul points out in Colossians 2:16, the wedding analogy does not dictate the whole interplay between Christ and the Church.

• Offering a gift to the Bride .................................................• The outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the following Festival of Firstfruits
• Goes to his father’s house to build an addition .................• Ascends to Heaven in Acts 1:11 to build an abode for us
for them to live in; the Bride awaits His return

The remainder of the Jewish wedding is not the basis for the sequence-of-events analysis; however, it does follow the general order:

• Returns at night with fanfare, torches and trumpets ..........• Christ’s parousia with the Scrolling of the sky
• Bride comes out of her house to meet the Groom .............• The Elect are “taken up” to meet Jesus on the clouds
• Groom and his party return to his father’s..........................• The Great Multitude are presented in Heaven before God the Father
house for the actual wedding
• The wedding and marriage supper takes place ................• They wash their robes clean in the blood of the Lamb and complete the Seder Feast
• Groom and Bride retire to the wedding chambers .............• Elders announce the rewarding of the Saints as each Christian is to give an account of their life
where he will finally get to see his bride in private
 

inchrist

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Sep 23, 2016
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Marcus O said:
The next two are out of order from the wedding to what actually happened with Jesus and the Church. Like with the Festivals as Paul points out in Colossians 2:16, the wedding analogy does not dictate the whole interplay between Christ and the Church.The remainder of the Jewish wedding is not the basis for the sequence-of-events analysis; however, it does follow the general order:

• Returns at night with fanfare, torches and trumpets ..........• Christ’s parousia with the Scrolling of the sky
• Bride comes out of her house to meet the Groom .............• The Elect are “taken up” to meet Jesus on the clouds
• Groom and his party return to his father’s..........................• The Great Multitude are presented in Heaven before God the Father
house for the actual wedding
• The wedding and marriage supper takes place ................• They wash their robes clean in the blood of the Lamb and complete the Seder Feast
• Groom and Bride retire to the wedding chambers .............• Elders announce the rewarding of the Saints as each Christian is to give an account of their life
where he will finally get to see his bride in private
This is completely false.


There is a custom of escorting the bride and groom to the Chuppah which is an ancient one. Throughout Jewish history, brides and grooms have been compared to kings and queens, who always appear with an entourage. The tradition of attendants continues to this day.

When God betrothed Himself to Israel at mount
Sinai, Moses was seen as being one of the two witnesses whose
primary job was to escort the bride (Israel) to meet the groom under
the chuppah (wedding canopy) which was seen as being mount Sinai. In

Exodus 19:17, Moses escorted the children of Israel to mount Sinai to be married to the God of Israel under the chuppah
(mount Sinai) as it is written:

"And Moses brought forth [escorted] the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount."

The scrolling of the sky is not the opening of the gates in heaven for Christs parousia, this is simply wild conjecture.

The opening of the gates of Heaven occurs at the 7th trumpet and the only place in the entirety of Revelation where you actually find a literal resurrection and rapture occuring


Rev 11:11 But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them,and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on

Here is no guess work or wild conjecture that the temple of heaven is open and Christs parousia, where evidence of a literal resurrection occured at the 7th trumpet like the Prophet Paul said would occur.

- Rev 11:19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant.

It is open for a short time and then is closed Rev 15:8

And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

Just like the ancient jewish wedding costumes, the bride must be escorted to the groom.

There is no escort in prewrath, there is no literal resurrection in prewrath, The temple of Heaven is not opened and then shortly closed afterwords in prewrath like we see at the 7th trumpet.

The multitudes and the sealing of the 12 tribes in Rev 7 onwords to the 7th trumpet is the exact event we see in Rev 11 there is no resurrection in the beginning of Rev 11 but at at the end of Rev 11 at the 7th trumpet

11 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court;do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 They are “the two olive trees”and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”[a] 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into bloodand to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. 9 For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

11 But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them,and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.