The Breath of Life

[marks]

I've been reading @Stan B and @charity about the breath of life from God.

I picture in creation when the Son of God kneels on the ground and gathers together a pile of dirt, pats it together into the shape of a man, then breaths life into the man.

We talk about Solomon's question, as he pondered the unknown,

Ecclesiaste 3
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Who knows? Dust returns to dust, and the breath of life returns to God?

Someone said this in a way I really liked.

The body is like the filament in a light bulb, and the breath of life is like electricity, and light is like the soul of man. Give breath to the body, and we are a living soul. Take away that breath, and there is no more soul, just like there is no light after you unplug the lamp.

I know Chris's view, as many share, is that this breath of life leaves, and life leaves with it, until it is restored in the resurrection.

I know that Stan's view is that until the breath of life arrives, at birth, the fetus is not yet a living soul.

So here is my question.

If you believe that the breath of life leaving at death is the cessation of the person, then doesn't this equally mean that until that breath of life is inhaled, there is not yet a person?

To be clear, I don't hold to this view. I believe God gives life at conception, and that the soul as we think of it survives the death of the body.

Much love!

 

[charity]

@marks said:-
So here is my question.

If you believe that the breath of life leaving at death is the cessation of the person, then doesn't this equally mean that until that breath of life is inhaled, there is not yet a person?

'And so it is written,
The first man Adam was made a living soul;
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.'
(1Co 15:45)

Hello marks,

Yes, for the whole person is the soul, not just part of it. Man became a living soul when God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7), and when man dies his body goes back to the dust from whence it came (Ecclesiastes 12:7 & Job 34:15), and the spirit (ie., the breadth of life) goes back to God who gave it.

That is why the resurrection is so important to the believer: for it is the moment when mortality is swallowed up of life (2 Corinthians 5:1-4). The moment when death is swallowed up in victory (1 Corinthians 15:54 & 1 Corinthians 15:44-47)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Stan B]

I've been reading @Stan B and @charity about the breath of life from God.

I picture in creation when the Son of God kneels on the ground and gathers together a pile of dirt, pats it together into the shape of a man, then breaths life into the man.

So here is my question.

If you believe that the breath of life leaving at death is the cessation of the person, then doesn't this equally mean that until that breath of life is inhaled, there is not yet a person?

I just go by what the Bible says, and this theme is reiterated throughout Scripture from Genesis to Revelation. The breath of life is essential for all living beings.

Until God has breathed into the fetus the breath/spirit of life, God says it is dead! "For as the body apart from the spirit is dead" James 2:26 )

Job declares the meaning of the breath of life:

“Refute me if you can;

“The Spirit of God has made me,
And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
“Refute me if you can;
Array yourselves before me, take your stand.
“Behold, I belong to God like you;
I too have been formed out of the clay.
“Behold, no fear of me should terrify you,
Nor should my pressure weigh heavily on you. Job 33:44

“Far be it from me that I should declare you right;
Till I die I will not put away my integrity from me.
For as long as life is in me,
And the breath of God is in my nostrils" Job 27

The two witnesses in Revelation, after being murdered "But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet;" Rev 11:11

 

[farouk]

Another perspective:

"In deep, eternal counsel,
Before the world was made,
Before its deep foundations
On nothingness were laid,
God purposed us for blessing,
And chose us in His Son,
To Him to be conformed,
When here our course was run." (G. W. Frazer)

 

[marks]

'And so it is written,
The first man Adam was made a living soul;
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.'
(1Co 15:45)

Hello marks,

Yes, for the whole person is the soul, not just part of it. Man became a living soul when God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7), and when man dies his body goes back to the dust from whence it came (Ecclesiastes 12:7 & Job 34:15), and the spirit (ie., the breadth of life) goes back to God who gave it.

That is why the resurrection is so important to the believer: for it is the moment when mortality is swallowed up of life (2 Corinthians 5:1-4). The moment when death is swallowed up in victory (1 Corinthians 15:54 & 1 Corinthians 15:44-47)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

OK, so then you also don't have an issue with abortions? Or do you have a different reason against that, since it's not killing a "person"?

Much love!

 

[charity]

OK, so then you also don't have an issue with abortions? Or do you have a different reason against that, since it's not killing a "person"?

Much love!

Hello @marks

That is another issue altogether, which if I had an opinion to express, would not include the use of 'the breath of life' to defend.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[marks]

Hello @marks

That is another issue altogether, which if I had an opinion to express, would not include the use of 'the breath of life' to defend.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that is doesn't mean the same thing at the beginning of one's life as it does at the end?

?

 

[amadeus]

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that is doesn't mean the same thing at the beginning of one's life as it does at the end?

?

Without deciding when a "life" begins, we still have an obligation as stewards of whatever God has placed with us. Even if what is in the womb were not really a "life" prior to birth[which I do not concede], the woman bearing it and the father who planted it are still responsible as caretakers. It is part of their stewardship.

 

[Enoch111]

If you believe that the breath of life leaving at death is the cessation of the person, then doesn't this equally mean that until that breath of life is inhaled, there is not yet a person?

Not yet a "living" person would be correct.

 

[charity]

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that is doesn't mean the same thing at the beginning of one's life as it does at the end?

Hello @marks,

I am saying that the question of abortion is not the subject of the thread, but if it were, and if I had an opinion to express concerning it, I would not use the words, 'the breath of life' in my response. For unlike the creation of Adam, the child is already alive within the womb, drawing sustenance from and oxygenated by the Mother.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

Until God has breathed into the fetus the breath/spirit of life, God says it is dead! "For as the body apart from the spirit is dead" James 2:26 )

Hello @Stan B,

With respect, I cannot agree with you on this, for the unborn child is alive, prior to birth, it has a heart beat and is oxygenated by the Mother. The child is born a living soul.

God breathed the breath of life into Adam, and he became a living soul (or person), this was not a natural birth, he was a creation of God, but became the father of all mankind. Every child born is a child of Adam, as the first man. We bare his image.

'The first man Adam was made a living soul,
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit'
(1 Corinthians 15:45)

'And as we have borne the image of the earthy,
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.'
(1 Corinthians 15:49)

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Joseph77]

Hello @Stan B,

With respect, I cannot agree with you on this, for the unborn child is alive, prior to birth, it has a heart beat and is oxygenated by the Mother. The child is born a living soul.

God breathed the breath of life into Adam, and he became a living soul (or person), this was not a natural birth, he was a creation of God, but became the father of all mankind. Every child born is a child of Adam.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

They are alive only who God Says are alive. Multitudes today walking the earth, billions, are walking death, and leading to death, pernicious.....

vs

Yochanan the immerser lept for joy when the savior came near.

THEY BOTH WERE IN THE WOMB. ALIVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[charity]

They are alive only who God Says are alive. Multitudes today walking the earth, billions, are walking death, and leading to death, pernicious.....
vs
Yochanan the immerser lept for joy when the savior came near.
THEY BOTH WERE IN THE WOMB. ALIVE !!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you @Joseph77,

Interesting! (Luke 1:41 & 44):-

'And it came to pass, that,
when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary,
the babe leaped in her womb;
and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:'

'For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears,
the babe leaped in my womb for joy.'

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

'So God created man in His own image,
in the image of God created He him;
male and female created He them.
And God blessed them,
and God said unto them,
Be fruitful, and multiply,
and replenish the earth, and subdue it:
and have dominion over the fish of the sea,
and over the fowl of the air,
and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.'
(Gen 1:27)

'This is the book of the generations of Adam.
In the day that God created man,
in the likeness of God made He him;
Male and female created He them;
and blessed them, and called their name Adam,
in the day when they were created.
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years,
and begat a son in His own likeness, after his image;
and called his name Seth:
And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years:
and he begat sons and daughters:'
(Gen 5:1-4)

 

[theophilus]

Until God has breathed into the fetus the breath/spirit of life, God says it is dead! "For as the body apart from the spirit is dead" James 2:26 )

The Bible says that God breathed life into Adam and he became a living soul. This is the only time the Bible tells us he breathed life into someone. Once Adam was alive he transmitted his life into his children.

And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold, when the sound of your greeting came to my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy."
Luke 1:41-44 ESV

John was still in his mother's womb and had never taken a breath of air into his lungs, but he was clearly alive. Life begins at conception and the soul continues to exist even after the body is dead. James said that the body is dead without breath but he said nothing about the existence of the soul.

 

[Stan B]

The Bible says that God breathed life into Adam and he became a living soul. This is the only time the Bible tells us he breathed life into someone. Once Adam was alive he transmitted his life into his children.

You seem to have entirely ignored the references I provided in my posting #3, but in addition to those here is a longer version:

Ezekiel's prophecy regarding the resurrection of the Valley of Dry Bones:
"3 He said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?” And I answered, “O Lord God, You know.” 4 Again He said to me, “Prophesy over these bones and say to them, ‘O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.’ 5 Thus says the Lord God to these bones, ‘Behold, I will cause breath [spirit] to enter you that you may come to life. 6 I will put sinews on you, make flesh grow back on you, cover you with skin and put breath in you that you may come alive; and you will know that I am the Lord.’”

"7 So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold, a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to its bone. 8 And I looked, and behold, sinews were on them, and flesh grew and skin covered them; but there was no breath in them. 9 Then He said to me, “Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they come to life.”’” So I prophesied as He commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they came to life and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army." Ezekiel 37:1-14

God declares that if He withdrew His Spirit and His Breath: "If He should determine to do so, If He should gather to Himself His spirit and His breath, All flesh would perish together, And man would return to dust." Job 34:14-15

This is the system God followed from Genesis up to the two witnesses in Revelation, after being murdered and left on the street, "But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet;" Rev 11:11

 

[marks]

Hello @marks,

I am saying that the question of abortion is not the subject of the thread, but if it were, and if I had an opinion to express concerning it, I would not use the words, 'the breath of life' in my response. For unlike the creation of Adam, the child is already alive within the womb, drawing sustenance from and oxygenated by the Mother.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Actually it was thinking about Stan's view on abortion that made me see the connection between these two views based on this idea of the breath of life, that God breathes into man and he is alive, and all are alive in whom is the breath of life.

Much love!

 

[marks]

he Bible says that God breathed life into Adam and he became a living soul. This is the only time the Bible tells us he breathed life into someone. Once Adam was alive he transmitted his life into his children.

John 20
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Perhaps one other time?

 

[marks]

John was still in his mother's womb and had never taken a breath of air into his lungs, but he was clearly alive. Life begins at conception and the soul continues to exist even after the body is dead. James said that the body is dead without breath but he said nothing about the existence of the soul.

We have our own expression, "alive and breathing".

Much love!

 

[charity]

Actually it was thinking about Stan's view on abortion that made me see the connection between these two views based on this idea of the breath of life, that God breathes into man and he is alive, and all are alive in whom is the breath of life.

Much love!

Hello @marks

Yes, I understood your reasoning. Thank you for explaining though.

In Christ Jesus
Chris