The Bride

[guysmith]

It is a literal building, the tabernacle of God. Rev 21: 3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.This building will be the physical sanctuary for the resurrected saints during the millennium. Rev 21: 24And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: Rev 22: 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. The land outside the building will experience the effects of the vials of wrath for the duration of the millennium. Ezekiel 47:11 But the swamps and marshes will not become fresh; they will be left for salt. The only fertile area outside the tabernacle will be along the "river of life." Ezekiel 47: 12 Fruit trees of all kinds will grow on both banks of the river. Their leaves will not wither, nor will their fruit fail. Every month they will bear, because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will serve for food and their leaves for healing." The resurrected saints will not be the only ones living on earth during the millennium. Zechariah 14: 16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. There will be individuals (which have take the mark of the beast) which will be on the outside of the tabernacle. Rev 21:27Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life. Rev 22:15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. These individuals are the ones that will be ruled with "a rod of iron." Rev 2:26To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27'He will rule them with an iron scepter; he will dash them to pieces like pottery' just as I have received authority from my Father.At millenniums end, Satan will be released and will deceive these individuals, and there descendents, into attacking the tabernacle. Rev 20: 7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. In Yehoshua,Guy Smith

 

[HammerStone]

But you missed/ignored what is actually said about the Bride?

Revelation 21:9-10And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

And then a little later:

Revelation 22:22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Yet we know the church to be the bride of Christ, which should be presented chaste to Christ, the bridegroom.

II Corinthians 11:2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

In the final chapter of the Bible, we are left with the Spirit and the Bride saying:

Revelation 22:17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Clearly not any kind of building speaking. Those who have accepted and are found truly in the Lord are the bride, and they will minister to the Lord and to others in the millennium.

 

[guysmith]

Hello Swampfox,I understand your position, I'll not try and change your mind. That said, I have one or two questions for you.Paul states that the tabernacle in the wilderness was designed after a tabernacle in heaven. Heb 8:5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: "See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain." My first question is; is the heavenly tabernacle descibed by Paul the same tabernacle that John is describing in Revelation 21: 3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.?In Yehoshua,Guy Smith

 

[n2thelight]

Hello Guy Let me see if I can answer this...

Paul states that the tabernacle in the wilderness was designed after a tabernacle in heaven. Heb 8:5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: "See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain."

Hebrews 8:5 "Who served unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, "See", saith he, "That thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount." When the old priest served up the offerings under the law, it was a type of the heavenly gifts that Christ would give. When God gave Moses the pattern and plans for the tabernacle while up on Mount Sinai, He demanded that Moses build that tabernacle to the exact size, shape, manner, and using the materials that God designated to be used. This tabernacle of Moses' time was a copy, or better said, a type of what Christ's Temple would be. It was not a true temple but only a shadow of what would come and be built later. For now, rather then having a priest entering the "Holy of Holies" each year, Christ has become our High Priest that split that veil of the "Holy of Holies", and we can come to the Father at any time we chose.

My first question is; is the heavenly tabernacle descibed by Paul the same tabernacle that John is describing in Revelation 21: 3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.?

Revelation 21:3 "And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God." The text reads, "the throne" instead of "of heaven", and we know that voice is the voice of God, our Heavenly Father."Behold" in the Greek is "idou", and is the imperative "eidon". It is calling attention to a subject other than himself, and that subject is "the tabernacle of God". Hebrews 9:11 "But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;" Hebrews 9:12 "Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."We do not need the blood of sheep and goats anymore, for Jesus Christ is our sacrifice and tabernacle. Hebrews 9:14 "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" Hebrews 9:15 "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance." We don't serve a dead God, but a living Savior. He is our loving, living God. Here in verse 15 we see it is Jesus Christ that is our go-between, our tabernacle, which allows us humans to approach God. The Almighty Father is saying in verse 21:3 that this tabernacle (Jesus Christ) is going to be with men from here on, eternally. Jesus Christ will be with us, lead us, and we (all those who have accepted him) will be His people.

This Bible Study is written by Roger Christopherson, and it's transcription/ location is provided by http://www.theseason.org​

I would say that they are not the same....

 

[logabe]

To become part of the Bride of Christ, one must become an Israelite. God will only marry a nation composed of Israelite citizens. Yet citizenship is a legal issue, not a genealogical issue. Citizenship is open to all people, but they must become citizens of Israel to be married to Him. Hence, the Bride is exclusive nationally speaking, but inclusive of all individuals who meet the legal requirements of citizenship. Once a person has become a legal citizen of Judah, then he may continue on to become a citizen of the United House of Israel. This is a greater Kingdom. In fact, it is no other than the Kingdom of God itself. But to become an Israelite one must be joined to Joseph, the birthright holder. In Christ's second coming, He comes as the Heir to the birthright of Joseph. Therefore, one must believe that the true inheritor of Joseph is Jesus Christ and the overcomers (the Joseph company). These are the chosen ones who will rule with Him for a thousand years (Rev. 20:6). The way is open to every believer, but not every believer is an overcomer. One can accept Christ as his Passover without accepting Him as his Tabernacles. The manifested sons of God are those who not only have accepted Jesus Christ, but they have also come into the maturity of Sonship. Paul describes this in Galatians 4:1-7 and other writings as the huiothesia, the “placement of Sons.” He says that as long as we are yet immature children, we are no different from slaves or servants, even if we are heirs of all things. A baby is born into a family and is an heir of his father's house; but he is not placed as a Son until he reaches maturity. So also it is with this matter of Sonship. A baby Christian can be an heir of all things, but he is only placed in the legal position of a Son when he reaches maturity. Only then does he exercise the full authority of the Father. To reach such a place of maturity requiresgoing through the developmental steps laid down in Israel's feast days: Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles. One must be justified, sanctified, and then glorified. One must be fully saved in spirit, soul, and body. When a person meets these requirements, then and only then can it be said that he is an Israelite indeed. It took Jacob 98 years to reach that point in his life when he became an Israelite. It ought not to take that long for us today, for we may learn from his mistakes by studying his life in the Scripture. Even so, we must see the difference between being a true Jew and being a true Israelite. When Jesus came as the Heir to the throne of David, the chief priests disputed His claim. They did NOT appoint Him as their Leader. They wanted someone more willing to use military force to overthrow the Romans. He did not fit their idea of the Messiah. And so, they killed the Heir in order to seize His inheritance (Matt. 21:38). In other words, they disputed His right to be the Leader, or King of Judah. But those who DID accept Him were the true Jews, and in the eyes of God they remained as true citizens of Judah. The rest were cut off, according to the law, buttheir ranks were filled by people of other nationswho gladly accepted Jesus Christ as their King. Together, they formed the Kingdom of God—though this Kingdom was still in an early stage of development. It was essentially a Judah Kingdom. It became known as “the Church,” but it was Judah in the eyes of God. It would require a second coming of Christ to usher in the full Kingdom of Israel. Even as King David himself was first king of Judah before becoming king of Israel, so also is it with Jesus Christ. The Church has proclaimed Him King of Judah during the past 2,000 years, but now in His second appearance He is going to be proclaimed King of Israel—the United Kingdom of Israel. Jesus Christ is the great repairer of the breach mentioned in Isaiah 58:12, 12 And [they that shall be] of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. The two comings of Christ repair the breach between Judah and Israel. In coming from the tribe of Judah, He qualified to be its King—the holder of the Dominion Mandate. But in His second coming, He comes to claim the birthright, and hence, he comes as Joseph—the man whose robe was dipped in blood (Gen. 37:31; Rev. 19:13). In coming the second time as Joseph's Heir, He unites both the scepter and the birthright in one Head, under one Leader, as Hosea 1:11 says. In this great remarriage of the United House of Israel, He will marry a mature wife, one who is in agreement with Him, one who understands Him and is like Him. He will not be unequally yoked with a wife like Hagar, the bond woman, but will be yoked with a Sarah Bride that is free. He will not be yoked again to Hagar—the old Jerusalem—nor to its children, the Ishmael company. He will be yoked only to Sarah-the New Jerusalem—and to her children, the Isaac company. And so, the Bride of Christ in His second coming is a mature Sarah Bride made up of mature Christian believers who inherit the Kingdom, the Birthright of Joseph, as true Israelites. Logabe

 

[logabe]

Jesus talked to Nathanael in John 1:47, 48, 49, 47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Jesus recognized that Nathanael was not like deceitful Jacob, but was like the man, Israel, after he had wrestled with the angel. Why did Jesus call Nathanael an Israelite indeed? Were not the other disciples Israelites from Galilee, the home of Benjamin? 48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. No man can become an Israelite until he first comes under the fig tree of Judah. Becoming a true “Jew” is a pre-requisite to becoming an Israelite indeed. One must first accept Jesus in His Judah work before one can accept Him in His capacity as Joseph. 49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. When Jesus was on the Cross, the sign above His head proclaimed Him to be the King of the Jews, that is, the King of Judea. But Nathanael proclaims Jesus to be “the King of Israel.” Yes, there is a difference. Solomon's son was a mere King of Judah. David and Solomon were both kings of Israel—the United Kingdom of all the tribes. In this passage in John (above), Nathanael is a type of mature Son who is a pattern for us all, if we aspire to Sonship. Those who are content with their justification by faith in Jesus' death and resurrection—and see nothing further—are probably not among the overcomers who attain Sonship. There is more to the Christian life than just accepting Christ and then waiting for Him to return while we go about living as if there is no further experience with God. Justification is the door-opener to a whole new experience with God, by which we learn to hear and obey His voice, being led by the Spirit daily. An overcomer is motivated by the voice of God, rather than by responding to men. Since faith comes by hearing the word of God (Rom. 10:17), an overcomer therefore moves by faith, not by sight. Overcomers do not suffer from hardness of heart, for Paul mentioned in Romans 11:7, 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded Over comers are those who practice the art of forgiveness. Jesus told a parable in Matthew 18:22-35 to illustrate how those who cannot forgive others will lose their Jubilee and will receive judgment according to their own standard of measure. This does not mean that such people will lose their salvation. It only means that they will be classed as unrighteous servants that must receive “few stripes" or “many stripes” (Luke 12:48) before they are given life. Overcomers are those who have learned obedience by the things that they suffer in the earth. An obedient heart is the opposite of a lawless nature. Jesus said in Matt. 7:21-23 that many would come in His name saying, “Lord, Lord,” as if to show submission to Him. However, He would say to many of them, “depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness” (anomia, from nomos, “law”). The overcomers are mature in their ability to love one another. Jesus taught in Luke 14:12-14 that those desiring to inherit the first resurrection ought to have unconditional love. The illustration he used was inviting people to dinner who do not have the means to repay in kind. Such acts will be repaid “at the resurrection of the righteous.” Finally, an overcomer is one who is in agreement with God, for this is the basis of a New Covenant marriage relationship. God is looking for an “Amen” people, those who follow the example of Jesus, who said only what He heard His Father say, and did only what He saw His Father do. Jesus was the “true and faithful Witness” (Rev. 3:14). A witness is one who testifies to what he has seen or heard. God is looking for witnesses. No man can be God's witness without hearing or seeing something. But more than that, God is developing a Bride that is free, a Sarah Bride of the New Jerusalem. That Bride will be more than obedient. Even Hagar had the potential of being obedient. A Sarah Bride goes beyond obedience to agreement. Everything she does is what her Husband would do. And that is the only kind of Bride that can possess the full authority of her Husband without abusing that authority. Logabe

 

[Brother Mike]

Being Sort of connected to the Pentecostals. I would have to say that the Bride would be the Church......................... That is what everyone believes, and what is preached.After looking into that more as it really does not make sense, because we are the Body of Christ, not someone on the outside ready to marry Jesus, I would have to say that we are sons and daughters, not brides. We don't marry into the Covenant, but are born into that Covenant.The Bride = Israel and new Jerusalem. Not the Church. It goes against what I have always been taught, but scripture is scripture, and I have to accept that. logabe gave a pretty good description of what the Bride is composed of.Now the parable of the virgins simply means to "BE PREPARED." To say you need to spake in tongues and be filled with the Holy Ghost, (Though I speak in tongues, and I am Spirit Filled) or comparing lamp oil to something spiritual is really stretching things. This message was to Israel who Jesus was sent to minister to. We can safely say to just "BE PREPARED"Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Christina]

[/FONT]When the old priest served up the offerings under the law, it was a type of the heavenly gifts that Christ would give. When God gave Moses the pattern and plans for the tabernacle while up on Mount Sinai, He demanded that Moses build that tabernacle to the exact size, shape, manner, and using the materials that God designated to be used. This tabernacle of Moses' time was a copy, or better said, a type of what Christ's Temple would be. It was not a true temple but only a shadow of what would come and be built later. For now, rather then having a priest entering the "Holy of Holies" each year, Christ has become our High Priest that split that veil of the "Holy of Holies", and we can come to the Father at any time we chose. Revelation 21:3 "And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God." The text reads, "the throne" instead of "of heaven", and we know that voice is the voice of God, our Heavenly Father."Behold" in the Greek is "idou", and is the imperative "eidon". It is calling attention to a subject other than himself, and that subject is "the tabernacle of God". Hebrews 9:11 "But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;"Hebrews 9:12 "Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."We do not need the blood of sheep and goats anymore, for Jesus Christ is our sacrifice and tabernacle.Hebrews 9:14 "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" Hebrews 9:15 "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance." We don't serve a dead God, but a living Savior. He is our loving, living God. Here in verse 15 we see it is Jesus Christ that is our go-between, our tabernacle, which allows us humans to approach God.The Almighty Father is saying in verse 21:3 that this tabernacle (Jesus Christ) is going to be with men from here on, eternally. Jesus Christ will be with us, lead us, and we (all those who have accepted him) will be His people.

I would say that they are not the same....​

Nice post N2 We don't serve a dead God, but a living Savior. He is our loving, living God. Here in verse 15 we see it is Jesus Christ that is our go-between, our tabernacle, which allows us humans to approach God.The Almighty Father is saying in verse 21:3 that this tabernacle (Jesus Christ) is going to be with men from here on, eternally. Jesus Christ will be with us, lead us, and we (all those who have accepted him) will be His people very true words you have spoken here​

 

[Adstar]

I believe the New Jerusalem will come down at the end of the Mellennium. The saints wil be encamped at jeruslaem during the mellenniumRevelation 207 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city.Later in Revelation 21 the New Jerualem is seen coming down to earth. Revelation 211 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”Note the New Jerusalem is described as a brideThe scriptures are not saying it is the bride. But that as a bride it is decorated in a beautiful way.All Praise The Ancient Of DaysPS My Bolding and Underlining and Enlarging of words are only to gain focus. They are not shouting. Hope you do not see it as shouting.

 

[Adstar]

Yes these scriptures tell of the time of the Millennium Kingdom of Jesus. But this scripture does not talk about the New Jerusalem. it talks of a Temple but if you read on into Ezekiel 48 verse 30 and onwards the city is measured. Note that this city is very much smaller that the New Jerusalem of Rev 21 for while this city is measured in Cubits, the New Jerusalem is measured in Furlongs. The City measured here in Ezekiel 48 is a dot on the map compared to the vastness of the New Jerusalem.All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Christina]

I agree with much of what Adstar says here but I think there is a little tweaking that needs to done to get all this in correct order follow the subject of the chapter/ verses. Rev.20:7-9 takes place after the Millieum 7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison This is after the millenium not before ... the 5th/ 6th trump is what we might call Antichrist or Satan's tribulation (this is the one everyone thinks of when they say tribulation ..... It is shortened by God for the Elects Sake ....Mat 24:21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Mat 24:29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Then after this tribulation of A.C. We have the 7th/last trump which is Christ's second coming this is Gods wrath upon Satan and his followers ... And I doubt it will last but perhaps hours or less This is when Christ and his army defeat Satan and throw him in prison for a 1000 years .... Now what happens to everyone left alive on earth believers and non believers alike ? 1Cr 15:50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. The kingdom of God is here on earth during the millenium flesh and blood can not enter ALL will be changed the age of flesh is over No flesh exists on earth anywhereThe age of Grace is ended !!!!!!!!!!!!! So what is this Millenium for? Isa 54:13 And all thy children [shall be] taught of the LORD; and great [shall be] the peace of thy children. This is what the millennium is for!!! a time of teaching That is why there is no judgement for the masses until after the Millennium that is why Satan is loosed again after the 1000 years to test the ones who were taught during the millennium Isaiah 54:2 "Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;" This is God's guarantee that within the Millennium age we are going to win back many of the souls that would not listen, and even many of those that God sent the stupor of slumber upon, as Paul wrote of in Romans 11:7, 8. At the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, His kingdom will be established right here on earth, and those that waited patiently will rule and inherit that kingdom as joint heirs right along with our Lord Jesus Christ. "Thy seed", which are the saved of this age of the flesh/grace the Elect, the over-comers, these are the first resurrected will inherit, or rule over the Gentile nations.Every last city that was deceived by the flood of lies that Satan and his army of fallen angels, will see the truth. Every knee on the face of the earth will bow a knee to Jesus Christ on that first day of the Millennium age, and Satan and all evil will be gone on that day.Bound for a 1000 years. While all are taught.... Our new bodies are not ghosts as Christs resurrected body was not a ghost ...We will still have nations and cities... God will be ruling here on earth. We do not cease to exist because we are no loonger in flesh bodies, we do not float around like ghosts we live right here on earth. After that 1000 years Satan is loosed for a short time. Why? To test all that were taught during the millenium (except those were of the first resurrected that overcame in the age of grace ).... There is no grace in this time of testing everyone that is tested by Satan this time are judged on their works .... They are subject to the second death .....(that is God killing their souls) Satan will be released from his prison after the Millieum Rev.20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison Rev 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. This is the final Armageddon..... Then comes White throne judgement Satan and all evil is destroyed permanently NOW we see New heaven and new earth and New JerusalemRev.21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

[Adstar]

not before[/U] ...

True i agree. The tribulation happens before the 1000 years. At the end of the 1000 years however satan is released and once again goes out to deceive the world. Not the saints but others.

the 5th/ 6th trump is what we might call Antichrist or Satan's tribulation (this is the one everyone thinks of when they say tribulation ..... It is shortened by God for the Elects Sake ....

Note what scriptures say in that verse that reveals the shortening:Matthew 2422 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.So the days being shortened means that "flesh" will survive in the Mellenium.

Then after this tribulation of A.C. We have the 7th/last trump which is Christ's second coming this is Gods wrath upon Satan and his followers ... And I doubt it will last but perhaps hours or less This is when Christ and his army defeat Satan and throw him in prison for a 1000 years ....

Yes the battle of Armageddon will last a very short time. But that is an army of 200million men gathered with the anti christ and the false prophet on the plains of megiddo. But as we discussed before about the 5 months when men will be suffering and not dieing because of the stings. That is part of the wrath of God also.

Now what happens to everyone left alive on earth believers and non believers alike ? 1Cr 15:50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Flesh and blood as it is now.

1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. The kingdom of God is here on earth during the millenium flesh and blood can not enter

But as we have read the days have been shortened so that flesh may survive. We shall rule with Jesus during the millennium. So we have to have someone to rule right??

ALL will be changed the age of flesh is over No flesh exists on earth anywhere

The age of Grace is ended !!!!!!!!!!!!!

So what is this Millenium for? Isa 54:13 And all thy children [shall be] taught of the LORD; and great [shall be] the peace of thy children. This is what the millennium is for!!! a time of teaching That is why there is no judgement for the masses until after the Millennium that is why Satan is loosed again after the 1000 years to test the ones who were taught during the millennium

I don't believe that those who take part in the first resurrection of the saints who will be changed can ever be deceived or need any teaching because i believe we shall know God.I believe this scripture speaks of the millennium kingdomJeremiah 3131 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

"Thy seed", which are the saved of this age of the flesh/grace the Elect, the over-comers, these are the first resurrected will inherit, or rule over the Gentile nations.

Yes. During the millennium we will be ruling over the Flesh nations who God spared during the wrath. He spares them for our sakes.

Every knee on the face of the earth will bow a knee to Jesus Christ on that first day of the Millennium age, and Satan and all evil will be gone on that day.Bound for a 1000 years. While all are taught.... Our new bodies are not ghosts as Christs resurrected body was not a ghost ...We will still have nations and cities... God will be ruling here on earth. We do not cease to exist because we are no loonger in flesh bodies, we do not float around like ghosts we live right here on earth.

Yes we shall have bodies during the millennium. Not the type we have now. But eternal bodies. But there will be those who are of normal flesh during the time of the Millennium whom Jesus will rule "with an iron Rod" (and we shall rule with Him also) Now i hope you agree that Jesus will not be ruling His beloved bride (the saints) with an iron Rod: Read the following scripture that reveals the WORD of GOD who is Jesus returning to rule:Revelation 1911 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[e] a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

After that 1000 years Satan is loosed for a short time. Why? To test all that were taught during the millenium (except those were of the first resurrected that overcame in the age of grace ).... There is no grace in this time of testing everyone that is tested by Satan this time are judged on their works ....

Satan will be released to Go out to deceive the nations as it is written Gog and Magog to bring them (those that are still in the flesh) to attack Jerusalem and the camp of the saints. satan in no way will be able to deceive the saints who where resurrected in the first resurrection. They have been with Jesus ruling the world for 1000 years and they will be with Jesus forever more. Once one takes part in the first resurrection of the saints they will not die ever again.

Satan will be released from his prison after the Millieum Rev.20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison Rev 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. This is the final Armageddon.....

Well there is only one battle of Armageddon. That happens when Jesus returns at the start of the 1000 years. i prefer to distinguish this last battle by calling in the final satanic rebellion. Otherwise confusion sets in if we use the word Armageddon.

Then comes White throne judgement Satan and all evil is destroyed permanently NOW we see New heaven and new earth and New JerusalemRev.21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

True The final Judgement happens after the defeat of the final satanic rebellion at the end of the 1000 years. And i believe that i am living in the generation that will see the Messiahs return so it is possible that i may never know death, either physical or the second death. His will be done. As it shall.All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[guysmith]

Hello Adstar, I know I am in a minority concerning this subject, so, I am not going to enter an argument. I would like to point out something though. You stated: I believe the New Jerusalem will come down at the end of the Mellennium. My response: I believe that the prophetic scriptures contain catchphrases which clue us as to when an event will take place. In this instance the passage: Revelation 211 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” .....contains the catchphrase "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death" which clues us to when the tabernacle of God will descend. In other words, if we can determine when "God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death," then we will know when the tabernacle of God will descend to the earth. Paul states that "Death is swallowed up in victory" which I assume that you will agree that this is describing the first resurrection, which will take place at the beginning of the millennium. 1 Corinthians 15:54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Isaiah further states that "God will wipe away tears" when He swallows "up death in victory. Isaiah 25:8He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it. Based on this information, in your opinion, when does Revelation 21:4 transpire? In Yehoshua,Guy Smith

 

[Christina]

Adstar the 5th/ 6th trump is what we might call Antichrist or Satan's tribulation (this is the one everyone thinks of when they say tribulation ..... It is shortened by God for the Elects Sake .... Note what scriptures say in that verse that reveals the shortening: Matthew 2422 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. So the days being shortened means that "flesh" will survive in the Mellenium. You are taking things a little out of context here the subject here is the tribulation of A.C. you have no words no context to then jump forward and assume this is the millenium if we do follow subject and object we can assume anything we are no longer following the scripture but our own ideas. We are talking after AC tribulation here not the millieum Then after this tribulation of A.C. We have the 7th/last trump which is Christ's second coming this is Gods wrath upon Satan and his followers ... And I doubt it will last but perhaps hours or less This is when Christ and his army defeat Satan and throw him in prison for a 1000 years .... We always get in trouble when we start making assumptions that are not in evidence There is no flesh and Blood after Christ comes. These are Gods own words not mine. or do we think when God says all he doesn't really mean ALL. Grace is over there is no need for flesh ..... Guy you you are assigning your own meaning to phrases where are we told to do this? There are rules to interpreting scripture ... Our flesh bodies eat live in Nations and cities Christ resurrected body was not a ghost ..Wiping tears from eyes is not a catch phrase its a figure of speech and Idiom it means there will no more sadness there fore you idea this is a catch phrase for flesh has no merit ... And to you both the tribulation of A.C. can not start until he is here ... When does this happen ?? After the deadly wound and things get bad here on earth then Antichrist(Satan) comes in peacful and fixes thing and thus the whole world follows him believing he is christ .... Lets go to his coming Revelation 9 1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. 5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. 6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. 11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. This king is Satan he is the Angel of the bottomless pit Abaddon, Appollyon are but other names from Satan he is the Star of verse one (This is futher described in Rev.12) So if the tribulation doesnt start till he gets here we are now reading of the 5th/6thin the 5th /6th trumps hereChrist comes at the 7th .... its is the 5th/6th trump the time of Satan on earth that is Shortened another Words the tribulation of AntiChrist (Satan) is shortened to 5 months This has a second wittness in Genesis.

 

[Adstar]

Hello guysmith Thanks for your thoughts, As for debate i think that is a attitude, a spirit of debate/argument. My intention is to give what i feel lead to give, to discuss it in the best possible way. I accept others will disagree. I have been enjoying this discussion with Christina. It is obvious that you and Christina have been dwelling upon the Word of God in a serious way.

Revelation 21[/B]1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” .....contains the catchphrase "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death" which clues us to when the tabernacle of God will descend. In other words, if we can determine when "God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death," then we will know when the tabernacle of God will descend to the earth.

"there shall be no more death" This to me can be seen as an absolute statement. That after this time there will be no more death Period. From this time on no one will die. This is at the end of the 1000 years after the final satanic rebellion the defeat of the Gog Magog army.

Paul states that "Death is swallowed up in victory" which I assume that you will agree that this is describing the first resurrection, which will take place at the beginning of the millennium. 1 Corinthians 15:54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Yes i agree. This is the first resurrection of the Saints/ catching up/ (rapture,, some have a problem with that term ) And yes it is a Victory over death. But it is a Victory for the saints who are raised up on that day. For they shall never die again. So Yes it is a Victory because on that day it will be the first time that humans will be transformed into their eternal state of being. From that day onward there will be humans ( Saints) that will never die again. The great thing about Revelation chapter 20 is that it is chronological from start to finish. It details the first resurrection when the saints will have victory over death but it shows that 1000 years later:Revelation 207 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.This army is gathered by satan at the end of the 1000 years. And the people of this army are killed by fire from heaven. These people will experience death. This shows to me to things. 1) There will be people living in the millennium that can be killed. Therefore there are people living in the millennium who have flesh bodies, not eternal bodies. People who are not saints. 2) That Revelation 21 must happen after this event because as it reveals "there shall be no more death" If it happens at the first resurrection of the saints then it is a false statement because as revealed death does definitely happen 1000 years after the first resurrection. Of course the book of Revelation is the revealed Word of God and it true with not faults.

Based on this information, in your opinion, when does Revelation 21:4 transpire? In Yehoshua,Guy Smith

I believe it transpires after the end of the final Judgement.All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Matthew 24[/B]22 And unless those days were shortened' date=' [B']no flesh would be saved[/B]; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. So the days being shortened means that "flesh" will survive in the Millennium. You are taking things a little out of context here the subject here is the tribulation of A.C. you have no words no context to then jump forward and assume this is the millennium if we do follow subject and object we can assume anything we are no longer following the scripture but our own ideas. We are talking after AC tribulation here not the millieum

If in some way i have caused you to think that i believe that the 5th/ 6th trumpets are in the millennium let me assure you now i believe the Millennium starts at the 7th trumpet. On the day of the Messiah Jesus return to earth. I believe all the 7 trumpets are the wrath, they are not the tribulation. tribulation is what happens to the saints from the AC wrath is what happens to those who have rejected the love of the truth and have aligned themselves with the AC. All the trumpets are blown by Angels and they are given their trumpets by God. So to me the trumpets are not the work of the AC.Revelation 8 1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets. 3 Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand. 5 Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thundering, lightning’s, and an earthquake.6 So the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.These trumpets to me are from God. All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Christina]

First let me say I agree with Adstar discussion that drives us to look deeper into the Word is healthy ...Most likely we never all agree on all things ..But the truth is Gods word only says one thing nor two or three ..its that one thing that truth we are to be looking for not to prove our own opinions ..but to find Gods one truth. Now Adstar I ask you again to please examine this verse 1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. The kingdom of God is here on earth during the millennium flesh and blood can not enter What does ALL Mean ??????????? It means all the millenium is a time of teaching but flesh and blood can not enter the kingdom of God to be taught ....What is the point of excluding the unsaved in flesh bodies from being taught ..Just to kill them after Satan is loosed again ...Why not just kill them at his second coming ... It defies common sense ..... ALL means All not some not most not the just the saints All means All period.There is no flesh in the Millenium ... The Saint,over-comers,Elect what ever you want to call them reign and rule with Christ yes but what is the one thing that sets them apart from the rest ??????? Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years the second death is what set them apart from the rest of the people who will be being taught ..... What is the second death ? its the death of ones soul only God can kill them which is exactly what he will do after Satan is released a short time and tests the ones taught ... the saints over-comers are not subject to this second death ....Fear not him who can kill your flesh body but he who can kill your soul But everyone else is subject to this 2nd death ...... this is not a flesh and blood death its a soul death ....You can not have flesh people after the millenium.... because to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord so then the Lord would still have all these unsaved souls .... This battle at the End is not death of any flesh people its the second death of souls ... as there is no flesh because ALL were changed. Only The fifth six trump are the tribulation period ...a trumpet only heralds the beginning of the action (as in a battle) So the Angel of God blows the trumpet to herald a change in action/battleThis is allowed by God to seperate the wheat from the tares the sheep from the goats ..Its what we must overcome to make it to the first resurected....

 

[n2thelight]

Adstar I believe all the 7 trumpets are the wrath, they are not the tribulation. tribulation is what happens to the saints from the AC wrath is what happens to those who have rejected the love of the truth and have aligned themselves with the AC. All the trumpets are blown by Angels and they are given their trumpets by God. So to me the trumpets are not the work of the AC.

I think that you fail to realize that there shall be two tribulations,one of Christ and the other of satan.The tribulation of satan is deception The trumpets signify action,and each 1 let's you know that action,its not a matter of them being the work of satan.

 

[Adstar]

Hi Christina

all be changed[/B],

1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Ok having read your posts i get the feeling that i must ask you. What do you think our changed state will be? I am getting the feeling that you believe we will be Spirits without body. That the change will not be from corruptible flesh as it is now to an eternal incorruptible body. But from our current corruptible flesh into a ghost like spirit state of being. Am i reading you right here? Do you think that we will be bodyless in the millennium?

The kingdom of God is here on earth during the millennium flesh and blood can not enter

The Kingdom of God is also a Kingdom of Spirit as in thought, faith, we can only become complete members of this eternal Kingdom when out current corruptible sinful carnal flesh and blood is changed into incorruptible bodies. If we where being changed into some bodyless state then why do we need the earth any more? Why be on earth if we do not inhabit physical bodies?

What does ALL Mean ??????????? It means all the millenium is a time of teaching but flesh and blood can not enter the kingdom of God to be taught ..

Teaching for resurrected Saints in their Eternal state??? But scriptures say that we will know God and no one will teach his neighbour saying know the Lord. Once we are resurrected and are in our eternal state we will see Him as He is, no need for anymore teaching we will know it all.

..What is the point of excluding the unsaved in flesh bodies from being taught ..Just to kill them after Satan is loosed again ...Why not just kill them at his second coming ... It defies common sense .....

They will be taught but they will still be in their carnal state with the ability to reject God in spirit but they will not be able to rebel against the authority and control of the World that the Messiah Jesus and His saints will have for 1000 years. They will be servants of the Saints during those times. For our sakes not all flesh (carnal flesh) will be destroyed.

ALL means All not some not most not the just the saints All means All period.There is no flesh in the Millenium ... The Saint,over-comers,Elect what ever you want to call them reign and rule with Christ yes but what is the one thing that sets them apart from the rest ???????

If there is no flesh, Who are they ruling? If it is Just Jesus and the Saints then it would be Just Jesus ruling, and the saints would be the ruled. How can we rule each other? If the scriptures are right and we will be ruling with Jesus then there must be a population other than Jesus and the saints to rule.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years the second death is what set them apart from the rest of the people who will be being taught .....

The rest of the people? If there are only Raised saints and Jesus during the 1000 years how can there be other people we are set apart from? If the only ones on the earth during those 1000 years are Jesus and His saints ( on such the second death hath no power) then effectively there could be no Other people set apart. But there are other people because at the end of the 1000 years satan will go out to deceive them and gather them to wage war against Jesus and His saints in Jerusalem

What is the second death ? its the death of ones soul only God can kill them which is exactly what he will do after Satan is released a short time and tests the ones taught ...

Once again if only Jesus and the resurrected Saints are on earth during the time of the Millennium then the only ones satan can go out and deceive and lead to Jerusalem to attack it would be resurrected saints. Now we know everyone who takes part in the first resurrection will have no part in the second death (the lake of fire) So are you saying that Saints in their eternal bodies will join with satan and come to Jerusalem to attack it and then be consumed by fire come down from heaven???

the saints over-comers are not subject to this second death ....Fear not him who can kill your flesh body but he who can kill your soul

I agree. And i cannot believe that God would ever allow them to be deceived and to take part in a rebellion against God at the end of the 1000 years.

But everyone else is subject to this 2nd death ...... this is not a flesh and blood death its a soul death ....You can not have flesh people after the millenium.... because to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord so then the Lord would still have all these unsaved souls .... This battle at the End is not death of any flesh people its the second death of souls ... as there is no flesh because ALL were changed.

So as i am reading this i am getting the impression that you see those who are living in the 1000 years as being non corporal ghost like state of being and you see resurrected saints as being the ones lead by satan to rebel against Jesus in the final battle. You also believe that during this battle they will experience the second death.But scriptures go on in Revelation chapter 20 and state that after this final battle.Scripture in context:Revelation 207 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.Ok the battle is over and satan is cast into the lake of fire, Note it says "where the beast and the false prophet are" see they are already in the lake of fire, they got cast into it at the beginning of the millennium at the end of the battle of Armageddon a different battle. Now lets read on to the very next verses.Revelation 20 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.This is when the second death happens. After that final battle, not during that final battle. All those who are consumed by the fire from heaven in that final battle will be resurrected to face the final judgement, The great white throne judgement and only after then will people be cast into the Lake of fire. This is the second death, Not the final battle that precedes the final resurrection and judgement.Now going back to my earlier points. If satan deceives resurrected saints and brings them to Jerusalem and if the fire from heaven is the second death, then the earlier passage in Revelation 20:Revelation 206 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.:would be a lie. There Must be other people who are not resurrected saints living normal lives in the millennium. They are the ones deceived by satan and lead to Jerusalem to be consumed by the fire from heaven. They cannot be resurrected Saints who have taken part in the first resurrection 1000 years earlier.All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Hi n2thelight Good to have this chance to share with you. [quote name='n2thelight;73344]I think that you fail to realize that there shall be two tribulations' date='one of Christ and the other of satan.The tribulation of satan is deception The trumpets signify action, and each 1 let's you know that action ,its not a matter of them being the work of satan.[/QUOTE']I see it as a Tribulation on the true followers of God by followers of satan followed by the Wrath of God brought down upon the followers of satan.If the tribulation of satan was only deception then the Saints mentioned below would not have been beheaded:Revelation 204 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years.Being beheaded is not the same as being deceived. It is suffering execution at the hands for the followers of the ACRevelation 1315 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. Being killed is tribulation, real physical tribulation. Brought to bear on those who refuse to worship the image of the beast. All Praise The Ancient Of Days