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The Christian nightmare

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by djstav, Oct 31, 2018.

  1. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    Paul doesn't require pagan credentials another witness may have sufficed. But God can, did, and he still uses pagan seers from the testimonies I've heard from missionaries.
     
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  2. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    What other witness? What are you talking about? Paul is speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, just as Christ did. There's two witnesses right there; The father and the son. Three witnesses if you believe in the Trinity. Paul isn't relying upon any other witnesses.

    When he says, "In him we live and move and have our being", he's articulating the gospel message. A message anyone can hear who has the ears to hear it. It's effectively no different than pointing out: "Christ in you, your only hope of salvation", or "not me, but Christ in me", or "Apart from me, you can do nothing", or when Christ says, "You are the light of the world", or when the church claims Christ's title by referring to themselves as "the Way".
     
  3. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    How about some context the Athenians would have been aware:

    "They fashioned a tomb for thee, O holy and high one
    The Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies!
    But thou art not dead: thou livest and abidest forever,
    For in thee we live and move and have our being."
    — Epimenides, Cretica

    Who do we know who had a tomb fashioned, is holy and from above, was declared dead, but isn't dead? Even though it was attributed to Zeus, it was inspired from God, and Paul was still able to make use of it. The major hangup the Greeks had with the gospel was the resurrection, and this made them think. All while demonstrating the long arm of the Lord.

    Oh and the gospel is simply:
    1 Corinthians 15:3-4
     
  4. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    Neither the Greeks nor the Romans had any hang up with the resurrection. Again, no one is arguing that Paul is having any trouble making use of pagan writings. I've always maintained that this is a fantastic technique for spreading the gospel. One needs to speak the language of those they're speaking to. Yet the modern day Christian insists on using just the bible. There are some who flat our refuse to read anything except the bible, and in some cases only one translation.

    I don't really see what you're point is here. You seem to just be repeating what I'm saying perhaps with some subtle distinction which has eluded me.
     
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  5. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    There is the special revelation of Scripture; and then the general revelation of God in the universe.
     
  6. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    There is also the fact that God pours his blessings (including revelation) on the weeds as well as the flowers. The flowers didn't grow, so it's being poured out on the weeds. When the children blanch, the dogs get fat.

    Paul quotes scripture to the Jews, and there's no denying what he says is inspired when he proclaims the gospel to the gentiles.
     
  7. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Protestant nightmare/phobia .......... being too Catholic, yet continuing to rely on Catholic doctrine
     
  8. Emily Nghiem

    Emily Nghiem Active Member

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    Yes @djstav
    Also when people do come to you trying to change you, you can turn this into a mutual opportunity to share equal advice, knowledge or corrections with EACH OTHER.

    Both people can help each other change themselves instead of competing to change each other which doesn't work so well.

    Between fellow believers, the Bible helps 2 or 3 people resolve conflicts by settling and agreeing on common understanding of Gods truth through Scripture and prayer in Christ for positive corrections, healing and unity.

    See Matthew 18:15-20
    Also James 5:16 and Matthew 5:44

    Also in Luke and Mark about removing the beam from our own eyes before helping a neighbor with a splinter. This isn't about avoiding or denying correction, but about doing it properly: when applied correctly, both people can benefit by correcting the biases we have in our own eyes causing us to criticize the other person as missing something. Both people can correct problems we see like using the situation as a mirror to correct our own flaws. We help each other and both benefit from mutual corrections and constructive use of criticism.
     
  9. Desire Of All Nations

    Desire Of All Nations Active Member

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    Actually, the Greeks did have problems understanding what Paul taught about the resurrection:"And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, “We will hear you again on this matter(Acts 17:32).” It's pretty clear from the narrative that some of the Greeks either ridiculed Paul or decided to hear him out again on the subject because they couldn't grasp what he was telling them.

    You also seem to suggest that there is a problem with using just the Bible(which is a ridiculously wrong argument, as 2 Tim. 3:16-17 shows), but can you point to a passage where Christ quoted literature other than the Bible as an authority for what a person is supposed to do or believe when He interacted with Gentiles? Can you point to a passage that says Christ studied anything other than the writings that were inspired by God? Can you point to a passage that says Paul is the example a Christian is supposed to live by instead of Christ? Do you know of a better source of truth than the Bible? If you can't, then i submit to you that the people who prefer to study and ready only the Bible aren't the ones with the problem.
     
  10. Invisibilis

    Invisibilis Well-Known Member

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    Most Christians, especially most new ones, say they believe, but are still trying to make that belief a reality _ to the point of being 'obvious' (pure conviction). In other words, doubt still reigns within them. They are still on milk. Out of this vulnerability, they seek support, not so much from God / Spirit of Truth / Jesus Christ, but from others believing them. In Truth, without themselves 'knowing' it, they are exploiting themselves by exploiting others. This subtle self-deception is like planting a seed in poor soil. This is why new Christians need elders of 'knowing', so they can point out their issues or self-agendas.

    All a true Christian does is allow the Spirit of Truth to guide them in Truth. It does not matter if those that hear the Truth do not accept it. Most who don't exercise faith won't allow the Truth into their consciousness, BUT the spirit in them hears it, and does not forget it. Another time, down the track of life, when they are using their faith to allow Truth in, they will 'know'.

    The beautiful thing about 'denial' is that we must know what we are denying before we can deny it. In other words, everybody knows what the truth is. Those open to it will say "YES", those closed to it will say "NO".

    Our task is to plant the seed in good soil by following the Sprit of Truth via our faith and love for the Love that loves us. We become the Good Word of Jesus Christ, a Light in the world we walk through. In fact, that Light is enough, without us having to say one word.
    We all grow at varying rates; sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly.
     
  11. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

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    Stephen preached, and he’s not one of the 12 - then of course there’s the fact Jesus sent out groups of 72 disciples, too - not just 12 - such as in Luke 10:1.

    Not to mention Jesus said that all those present at Pentecost, which turned out to be 125, would receive the Holy Spirit and Dunamis power, and be His witnesses to the end of the earth, in Acts 1:8.

    Baruch HaShem Adonai
     
  12. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

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    Nice sentiment, except it’s erroneous, since as it is written in Romans 10:

    Rom 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?

    Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

    Words are always needed.

    Shalom Aleichem
     
  13. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

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    I guess I missed those particular missionaries’ testimonies about pagan seers witnessing - unless you're talking about newly saved ex-pagan seers giving their testimony?
     
  14. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    Not witnessing in the Christianese since, but in the literal since. That someone else would come and show them the path to life.
     
  15. mh4Yeshua

    mh4Yeshua New Member

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    Every religion on earth teaches us to love our neighbor but the World so clearly needs a Savior, and We have a Great Savior.
    80% of humanity is near extreme poverty and there is an annual global poverty holocaust.
    Jesus said He brought good news to the poor and He means what He says.

    Not everyone is an evangelist, but We can all recount what Christ has done for Us.
    Unless something in Your mind doesn't want You to.

    Just focus on loving People.
    "
    [​IMG] Mat 25:34


    “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world.

    [​IMG] Mat 25:35

    For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home.

    [​IMG] Mat 25:36

    I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’

    [​IMG] Mat 25:37


    “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink?

    [​IMG] Mat 25:38

    Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing?

    [​IMG] Mat 25:39

    When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

    [​IMG] Mat 25:40


    “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters,[fn] you were doing it to me!’
    "
     
  16. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly.

    Islam comes with an ideology of world conquest for Allah, by any means necessary, especially via jihad and it calls for death of all infidels, and all non Muslims are the infidels.
     
  17. mh4Yeshua

    mh4Yeshua New Member

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    Yes but do You know that charity to those that are poor is a major duty of the resulting Islamic government?
     
  18. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

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    Look at the Islamic nations, and look at Gaza. Do you see Islam doing anything for the poor or needy? No. Christians run the orphanages, food kitchens and food pantries, homeless shelters, free medical clinics, not Muslims.
     
  19. stredaleve

    stredaleve Active Member

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    true i totally agree with you
    unlike my previous self i thought i should spread the words and help others understand for them to change their ways

    but the words stated that if you do not do what you preaches you are only insulting God among the gentiles

    but wait a minute oct 31 2018 o_O who dug this
     
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  20. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

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    You both need to read Romans 10 on salvation, how to get it, on faith, how it comes, and on preaching the word to people so they can hear it and then believe it.
     
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