The Church in the Wilderness

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Episkopos

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The wilderness church.

Now we are called not only to come out of the world but also to come into the promised rest of God. We are called out in order to strive to enter in. We are saved away from death in order to enter the race for life.

Hardly anyone is allowed to see the promised land before the time of entering. There are a few spies that God has allowed in to see and testify to the church of the wonders of the high calling in Christ.

But almost without exception...these voices are not heard. Just like the 12 spies that were sent over Jordan to investigate the promised land. Of these only two had the faith in God to see that it was possible to possess it.

When we are born again...we join the church in the wilderness. Unless there is a revival going on of course. Otherwise, routinely, the church is set up at a half-way point between the world and the kingdom of God. And this is by design.

In every generation and in every place the church needs to come together and seek the Lord for entrance into the promises of God.

The devil will do his utmost to have the people of God believe the wilderness is all there is in this life and stop people from striving to enter into victory with Christ. He will have us believe that the promised land is in a future afterlife...after we are safely dead...and no longer able to challenge his earthly authority.

So very few will actually enter into Christ....either as individuals or even more rarely as a victorious body. People have refused the race of faith for so long that practically no one can discern the high calling of God...even when they read about it in the plain text of the bible.
 
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Windmillcharge

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John17: 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

We are in the world in order to be salt and light to a dying world.

As Paul put it, to those prisoners in chains being dragged to death we are the sent of there death.
We cannot expect to be loved.
 
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Episkopos

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What part does the Spirit play in all this? What part are we to play?

The people in the wilderness were LED by the Spirit even while they had not yet entered into the land. A cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night guided the people so that they followed after these when they moved on from place to place.

So then a born again person can be led by the Spirit even if that person is not IN the Spirit.

A revival
takes place when more than one person enters into the spiritual realm to be covered by God's authority and power. Actually a person can also have a one person revival. But this could be seen as God permitting spies in the land in order to have a testimony of entering into Christ.

Jesus said that we should first seek the kingdom of God.

But in our time this doesn't happen very much, if at all. People rather are told that their salvation status is assured unconditionally so that dying in the wilderness is all there is available at this time. No need to seek for more. That's all there is! So the enemy has taken control of events through a lack of understanding of God's ways among they who have made the wilderness their place of abiding...neglecting the grace that is available by faith in Jesus Christ.

Of course we can still trust in God in the wilderness. We can still follow Christ there. But we are missing the fulness of the calling if we are happy to live in a half-way place that is far less than God's will for us.
 

Episkopos

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Many today believe that God loves Gentiles more than the original people of God the Jews. These think that God makes things easier for us than He did for them. That somehow we are more lovely or desirable to God than they were. That somehow we are better or wiser than they who missed the mark in their time.

But it only seems that way.

Being born again in the Spirit makes us the equivalent of being born in Israel. And our failure rate is no less than theirs. Of course we have been given much more. But the calling is also much higher. So the chances of dying in the wilderness are the same for us as for them. And the proof is that no one really considers this...the same as the Israelites of old. People are still people. And people tend to reason with their own minds...and miss the mind of God.

God is NOT a respecter of persons. If a person is given more....then their race is that much more difficult. We are all to be judged on a level playing field.

So the church calculations for a salvation status are way off.

This doesn't mean that people that die in the wilderness are not to be saved whatsoever. But it does reveal the character and lack of faith in they whom God will reject from the future kingdom of God.

The purpose of the gospel is that we might enter into His life...His eternal life. The cost of attaining this life is far too high for most people. As it was also in the days of the Exodus.

When Jesus returns will He find faith on the earth? The kind of faith that enters into the land...that enters into Him?
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Hardly anyone is allowed to see the promised land before the time of entering. There are a few spies that God has allowed in to see and testify to the church of the wonders of the high calling in Christ.

“Hardly anyone is allowed to see the promised land...” please consider that may not be true. Here is why: possibly one of the reason any are chosen before is for the purpose of showing “declaring” the promised land, the way to it(Christ), and the age to come...even and most of all before those thAt rise against Him. Can’t find it now but in the OT paraphrasing “that the Lord’s enemies see and are ashamed.”
Numbers 13:30-32 And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it. [31] But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we. [32] And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.

consider Christ words of fear not for I have overcome the world. And Greater is He that is in you than he who is in the world. “we are not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we.” And 1 Corinthians 1:25
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

The land is a land that eats up the inhabitants thereof...is this not the world? Is this not a land of great stature? But God shows and declares the world(Age) to come has overcome this (age)world; a land that eats up the inhabitants. There is another Land here...if you search the scriptures you will see this land has a good report...not an evil one. This land intreats, blesses those who persecute it, and reviles not, curses not ...as Christ said if His disciples were of this world they would fight for Him to not be delivered into their hands. Not that Christ had no interest in saving out from a land that eats its inhabitants...but a sign was being set up against a land which eats its inhabitants and all the men are of great (high)stature. a New stature being set: Ephesians 4:12-13 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: [13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
—Ephesians 3:17-19 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, [18] May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; [19] And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

We are to grow up in the stature of Christ belonging to a land (the breadth, the length, the depth and the height) which does not eat the inhabitants thereof.
But almost without exception...these voices are not heard. Just like the 12 spies that were sent over Jordan to investigate the promised land. Of these only two had the faith in God to see that it was possible to possess it.

12 spies crossed over Jordan...did the Apostles see it possible to posses the Land that eats its inhabitants through doing what He said? a land which eats its inhabitants is right in our faces ...it wants to eat us. He gives instruction to not be like that Land...even gives the power to become the Sons of God. Power to lay down life for His name Sake in “follow Me”. Yes, I ask you to reconsider that no one sees the Land because there is full testimony of a land which eats its inhabitants and also of a Land that its good fruits spring forth condemning and stopping the mouths of that which “eats its inhabitants”. As with the crucifixion the Good Land was fully displayed ...blind, they just couldn’t recognize it was Him: God with us.
 
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Episkopos

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The land is a land that eats up the inhabitants thereof...is this not the world? Is this not a land of great stature? But God shows and declares the world(Age) to come has overcome this (age)world; a land that eats up the inhabitants. There is another Land here...if you search the scriptures you will see this land has a good report...not an evil one.

Jesus Christ is both the cornerstone AND a stumbling-block. The land is BOTH flowing with milk and honey where WE eat of it's goodness AND a place that eats US up. It's both a place of victory AND defeat. Hence the opposing testimonies to the land.

The test of the mystery of faith is that it is So hard to believe it...that few will be able to do so.

So then seeing the same thing causes different reactions in different people...to one...faith...to another...despair.

How many walk in the victory of Christ over sin today? How hard is it to believe that it is right here and now available by faith?

So we see that they who will not believe that God can do the impossible will despair that perfection is a requirement of God who is holy.

But others will rejoice that this victory exists and go after it with the whole heart. These will rejoice even before tasting the fruit of it! By faith.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Jesus Christ is both the cornerstone AND a stumbling-block. The land is BOTH flowing with milk and honey where WE eat of it's goodness AND a place that eats US up. It's both a place of victory AND defeat. Hence the opposing testimonies to the land.

makes me think of: 2 Corinthians 6:8-10 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; [9] As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; [10] As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
 

Episkopos

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It should be remembered that the difference between a good report of the promised land and an evil report of it was based on either having faith in God to do what seems impossible...or not.

Had the good spies actually conquered the land yet? no.

Had the bad spies been defeated yet? no.

But each held to an attitude that reflected whether their faith was in God or in themselves.

So then we don't walk like Jesus because we lack faith that God can be approached at His throne of grace so that we can receive His grace to walk in His power so as to know Jesus first hand. Our lack of faith means we don't even have the capacity to seek for His grace...because we don't think it's possible to...

1- actually speak to God in person
2- to walk as Jesus walked

So we are exactly the same...in most cases...as the spies who gave an evil report. It is called evil in the bible...but most people would just call it...being realistic!
 

VictoryinJesus

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The test of the mystery of faith is that it is So hard to believe it...that few will be able to do so.

Personally I hope and pray that is not true as the many generations of “in His name” and for “His name sake” sown to His increase and multiplying. The good (spiritual) fruit we are told by the word, of the good ground of the good Land multiples and increases. there wouldn’t be no fruit sown here without sight of the good Land: James 3:16-18 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. [17] But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. [18] And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

...For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

If few have seen or entered in by faith...then why is there good Spiritual fruit of His land springing forth even now?
Philippians 1:10-12 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ; [11] Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God. [12] But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;

understand your encouragement and edification to others but still hope you are not right about only a few as it has been many generations...not that God can’t do great things with a few.
 

VictoryinJesus

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It should be remembered that the difference between a good report of the promised land and an evil report of it was based on either having faith in God to do what seems impossible...or not.

Had the good spies actually conquered the land yet? no.

Had the bad spies been defeated yet? no.

But each held to an attitude that reflected whether their faith was in God or in themselves.

So then we don't walk like Jesus because we lack faith that God can be approached at His throne of grace so that we can receive His grace to walk in His power so as to know Jesus first hand. Our lack of faith means we don't even have the capacity to seek for His grace...because we don't think it's possible to...

1- actually speak to God in person
2- to walk as Jesus walked

So we are exactly the same...in most cases...as the spies who gave an evil report. It is called evil in the bible...but most people would just call it...being realistic!

was thrown by the “evil report” ... it depends on the one doing the reporting?

to clarify further what was meant about ‘ His name’ or for ‘ His name sake’ ...it is His generation which increases. If we say few have entered into it are seen it...then are we saying there hasn’t been much increase or fullness of the fruit of righteousness which are by Jesus Christ?

Isaiah 53:7-10 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. [8] He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. [9] And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. [10] Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Acts 8:32-33 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: [33] In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

Isaiah 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

(1 Peter 2:9-10)
 

farouk

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was thrown by the “evil report” ... it depends on the one doing the reporting?

to clarify further what was meant about ‘ His name’ or for ‘ His name sake’ ...it is His generation which increases. If we say few have entered into it are seen it...then are we saying there hasn’t been much increase or fullness of the fruit of righteousness which are by Jesus Christ?

Isaiah 53:7-10 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. [8] He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. [9] And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. [10] Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Acts 8:32-33 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: [33] In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

Isaiah 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

(1 Peter 2:9-10)
Great, humbling, Christ-exalting verses there.

I think EH Broadbent's book The Pilgrim Church would also be relevant to the theme of this thread, generally.
 

VictoryinJesus

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the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
Could be said “the pleasure of the Lord” is Ephesians 5:28-32 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. [29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: [30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. [31] For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. [32] This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

“the pleasure of the Lord” ...beautiful in seeing what God says about the body’s of those that come together in intimacy. Clearly seen in a wife’s body belongs to her husband and the husbands to the wife. “The pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.” His body. “his pleasure”: Christ and the church joined.
 

farouk

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Could be said “the pleasure of the Lord” is Ephesians 5:28-32 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. [29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: [30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. [31] For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. [32] This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

“the pleasure of the Lord” ...beautiful in seeing what God says about the body’s of those that come together in intimacy. Clearly seen in a wife’s body belongs to her husband and the husbands to the wife. “The pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.” His body. “his pleasure”: Christ and the church joined.
@VictoryinJesus Yes, a wholesome image in context, if properly understood.
 

farouk

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@VictoryinJesus PS: On the other thread there has been a discussion of how some believers strongly think the Lord may use both rock lyrics and Scripture tattoo designs in blessing. What you comment from Ephesians - if properly understood - can also be true even among those for whom singleness is the path that the Lord has chosen for them (while they may even be involved in witness through Christian rock lyrics, faith tattoos, etc.)

I do find your posts very refreshing, if I may say so.
 

Episkopos

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was thrown by the “evil report” ... it depends on the one doing the reporting?
There are those who say "if the good news is not for everyone, then it isn't good news". But this is according to the will of carnal men....who just won't hear anything that doesn't edify the flesh.

But we know that the good news is for those who have faith. They may be poor, persecuted and hated in this life....but they can rejoice in that since God is the One who justifies.

The balance of the sermon on the mount is that there are as many woes as blessings.

It depends on who we are. God is consistent.
 

VictoryinJesus

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@farouk
Don’t know where your quote went I was responding to:

“The pleasure of the Lord shall prospers in His hand”. Been thinking on it ever since yesterday. Speaking strictly of the Spiritual mutuality between Christ and the church. Only keeping the flesh out of it as the definition of “pleasure” sometimes changes in regards to flesh and it can become ugly. One that stood out was how fathers chastened after their own pleasure but God after our own profit that we may be partakers of Him. Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

It is His good pleasure to give the kingdom...Not to withhold but to give. Ephesians 1:6-9 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. [7] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; [8] Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; [9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Philippians 2:13-16 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. [14] Do all things without murmurings and disputings: [15] That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; [16] Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain(emptiness), neither laboured in vain.(emptiness)...that we labour not in worthless empty words of strife and vain babbling but do His good pleasure ...as He and should be our greatest pleasure.

2 Thessalonians 1:11-12 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: [12] That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

That He may be glorified in you, and you in Him...Christ and His church. So woke up this morning really considering His good pleasure which, yes, wholesome, and pure and beautiful...
 
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ScottA

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The wilderness church.

Now we are called not only to come out of the world but also to come into the promised rest of God. We are called out in order to strive to enter in. We are saved away from death in order to enter the race for life.

Hardly anyone is allowed to see the promised land before the time of entering. There are a few spies that God has allowed in to see and testify to the church of the wonders of the high calling in Christ.

But almost without exception...these voices are not heard. Just like the 12 spies that were sent over Jordan to investigate the promised land. Of these only two had the faith in God to see that it was possible to possess it.

When we are born again...we join the church in the wilderness. Unless there is a revival going on of course. Otherwise, routinely, the church is set up at a half-way point between the world and the kingdom of God. And this is by design.

In every generation and in every place the church needs to come together and seek the Lord for entrance into the promises of God.

The devil will do his utmost to have the people of God believe the wilderness is all there is in this life and stop people from striving to enter into victory with Christ. He will have us believe that the promised land is in a future afterlife...after we are safely dead...and no longer able to challenge his earthly authority.

So very few will actually enter into Christ....either as individuals or even less rarely as a victorious body. People have refused the race of faith for so long that practically no one can discern the high calling of God...even when they read about it in the plain text of the bible.
Indeed, and the most detestable are those who are content to make a home of the wilderness with all manner of wilderness ministries, forgetting to focus on the promise.
 

Episkopos

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The giants in the land!

People are afraid of the unknown. In todays church there is a big suspicion about anything supernatural. It's like people want to keep God out of His church. They prefer the relative calm of going about business in the flesh. They have chosen captains (pastors) who will lead them back to Egypt...or at least allow them to remain in the wilderness...and push the promises into an afterlife.

Is it any surprise that God is not well pleased with this kind of attitude? These will not enter into God's rest. Even after many proofs of God's goodness...and much mental assent to the bible being about the truth...still these will not go in; still they will doubt and waver and remain fearful of the unknown.

We have been created to please God...not be scared of anything supernatural through a lack of faith in God. Where is the faith in God?

So it pleases God that we are willing...unafraid...to enter into the spiritual realm where we can commune with God.

Numbers 14:8
8 If the Lord delight in us, then he will bring us into this land, and give it us; a land which flows with milk and honey.

And without faith it is impossible for God to delight in us.