The Church Resurrection is Between Tribulations

[robert derrick]

I say it is not either/or pre- or post- tribulation, but is both post-and pre- tribulation, and it is between them both.

The dividing line between the last great tribulation and wrath of the devil and man upon the righteous, vs the first great tribulation and wrath of God upon all the wicked of the earth, is the resurrection and ascension of the saints of God into the air.

The rapture is post-tribulation from the wrath of the devil, and pre-tribulation from the wrath of God.

And that will begin with His return to earth in the air, when He will receive His church unto Himself.

For thousands of years, there has been great tribulation over all the earth, wheresoever the righteous are, beginning with Cain and righteous Abel. But there will come a time of quick and swift great tribulation from God over all the earth, even as the flood upon the wicked.

And the church alive and remaining on the earth, must first be taken out of the way, even as Noah in the ark.

 

[robert derrick]

1. There are two purposes for the Lord's return to this earth:

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. (John 14)

The first purpose of the Lord's return, is to resurrect and receive His church unto Himself in the air. (1 Thess 4)

Then shall the trees of the wood sing out at the presence of the LORD, because he cometh to judge the earth. (1 Chr 16)

Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations. (Ps 82)

Then the Lord will judge all the earth and inherit the nations, beginning with His tribulation and wrath of plagues and terrible signs from above.

2. There are two kinds of great tribulation on the earth:

Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. (Acts 14)

The tribulation and wrath of the devil and man is against the saints of God, which began with Cain troubling and then slaying righteous Abel.

God allows that tribulation to purify and sanctify His people unto Himself. (Dan 12:9-10)

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile. (Rom 2)

God sends His own tribulation with wrath, to punish them that hate Him, and who also make trouble and war with His people on earth.

Great tribulation and wrath of the devil and man, is promised to God's people for their own good, in being prepared to meet Him at His coming, whether from the grave, or remaining alive on earth.

Great tribulation and wrath of God, is promised by God to the wicked for their punishment and anguish, as just reward for their evil deeds against Him and His saints.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

We are appointed unto the tribulation and wrath of the world, but not unto that of God, which the righteous escaped by the ark, and will be by the first resurrection of the dead in Christ, and alive in Christ on earth.

3. The last days of much tribulation upon the people of God, began with Jesus building His church on earth after His resurrection.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds. (Heb 1)

These last days of tribulation upon the saints, also began with many antichrist beasts coming to trouble, confuse, seduce, and possibly destroy the churches of God. (John 2)

These last days of the saints on earth, will end with the rise of the last beast and false prophet's tribulation upon the church over all the earth. It will end by their resurrection and ascension into the air, which will be in the sight of all God's enemies. (Rev 11:11-12)

In that hour is when the great tribulation, wrath, and indignation of God will begin upon all the earth, in terrible signs and wonders (Rev 10:1), like that visited upon Egypt. (Deut 4)

And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. (Rev 11)

My Conclusion of Scripture:

The great tribulation and wrath of the devil and man upon all the earth, has been so far for over six thousand years, but at the end of the saints living on earth, there will be a flood-like unexpected and swift tribulation and wrath of God over all the earth:

Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. (Rom 9)

The great tribulation and wrath of God upon His enemies, has been at times and places such as the flood of Noah, and of Egypt, and outside Jerusalem's walls, but will be over all the earth at one quick and swift time as the flood, to prepare the way for His return upon the earth to judge all remaining.

The great tribulation and wrath of the world upon the righteous, has been long due to the mercy of God:

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the great tribulation and wrath of God, that is a long-time coming, will be short and quick over all the earth.

The distinct dividing line between the tribulation and wrath of the devil on the earth, and that of the Lord from the air, is the resurrection and ascension of all the saints of God.

The rapture of the church is both post-tribulation by the devil, and pre-tribulation by God, by dividing them in a moment and twinkling of the eye.

 

[robert derrick]

We don't have to worry about any great tribulation and wrath from God, which we will not have to endure, nor great tribulation and wrath of the devil, that we are called to endure.

If we are not enduring much tribulation now, then happy are we on this earth for a season, but if and when it does come for our good, then we can rest in our souls, that the body is nothing, but the Spirit of Christ is everything.

And when the great wrath and tribulation of God does come upon all the earth, with anguish of punishment, the enduing saints can trust they will not be here on earth to suffer it, but will be in the air to observe it.

So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I say it is not either/or pre- or post- tribulation, but is both post-and pre- tribulation, and it is between them both.

The dividing line between the last great tribulation and wrath of the devil and man upon the righteous, vs the first great tribulation and wrath of God upon all the wicked of the earth, is the resurrection and ascension of the saints of God into the air.

The rapture is post-tribulation from the wrath of the devil, and pre-tribulation from the wrath of God.

And that will begin with His return to earth in the air, when He will receive His church unto Himself.

For thousands of years, there has been great tribulation over all the earth, wheresoever the righteous are, beginning with Cain and righteous Abel. But there will come a time of quick and swift great tribulation from God over all the earth, even as the flood upon the wicked.

And the church alive and remaining on the earth, must first be taken out of the way, even as Noah in the ark.

Well, that's an interesting take, though I'm not sure I have it all right? First, however, I don't believe the words "taken out" are being applied to the proper thing. Jesus spoke about some being left and some being taken. That had to do, I think, with the Roman Army, who would be triumphant over the rebellious Jews in 70 AD. They would come and "remove" many Jews into exile as prisoners, and others would be "left" to work the fields for them.

This principle fits previous applications in the OT such as when Babylon conquered Israel. Some were left to till the fields while others were either killed or removed into exile.

Also, Paul's reference to removal of the Restrainer has to do, I think, with the removal of Rome's central authority, the Caesars, who according to Daniel had to suffer the division of their Empire in order for the Antichrist to come. The 4th Beast of Dan 7 would be divided into 10, and taken over by the Little Horn. And it is to this that I think Paul was referring, although he could not spell it out, due to the fact the Romans would consider this seditious.

But yes, Christ's Coming is "Pretribulational" in the sense that it precedes God's Eternal Wrath. Christians are saved from eternal destruction by a holy fire, which vacates all sinners from the earth in eternity. This position is referred to as "Pre-Wrath," and simply states that Christians are not "destined for God's wrath," but rather, for eternal salvation at the coming of the Lord.

But I am indeed Postribulational in the sense that Christians have suffered persecution and tribulation in this world from the start. It is still Satan's world, even though God rules over him. God is allowing Satan and his people to have their day before final judgment. And so, we cannot claim victory until Christ comes back to bind Satan and to throw him into a hole for a thousand years, and after that into Outer Darkness forever and ever.

 

[robert derrick]

Well, that's an interesting take, though I'm not sure I have it all right?

There are those who believe in mid-tribulation resurrection of the saints, but I don't know if this is how they teach it.

First, however, I don't believe the words "taken out" are being applied to the proper thing. Jesus spoke about some being left and some being taken. That had to do, I think, with the Roman Army, who would be triumphant over the rebellious Jews in 70 AD. They would come and "remove" many Jews into exile as prisoners, and others would be "left" to work the fields for them.

Now that is certaibnly interesting. I naturally stray from identifying certain groups and people in prophesy, unless Scripture says so for certain.

I agree them left and taken is not the resurrection, with the faithless servants left behind.

It occurs after His coming down to earth like a flood, and so I believe it is the division between the natural sheep and goats on the earth, after the armies at Armageddon are slaughtered without mercy.

This principle fits previous applications in the OT such as when Babylon conquered Israel. Some were left to till the fields while others were either killed or removed into exile.

I agree. There will no doubt be Jews left alive after the plagues and slaughter, going about their own business, and kept on earth along with other naturally good sheep.

They will be those returning to the land of Israel to see the land given to Abraham as promised, and become the Lord's natural kingdom of priests for the earth, which they failed to become at the Mount Sinai, and the cross of Christ.

Also, Paul's reference to removal of the Restrainer has to do, I think, with the removal of Rome's central authority, the Caesars, who according to Daniel had to suffer the division of their Empire in order for the Antichrist to come. The 4th Beast of Dan 7 would be divided into 10, and taken over by the Little Horn. And it is to this that I think Paul was referring, although he could not spell it out, due to the fact the Romans would consider this seditious.

I'm sticking with it being the church removed from earth, so that the Lord could begin His tribulation and wrath upon the earth, which the saints are not appointed to.

I don't really think the apostles were too worried about offending Rome. After all, they were going to likely be killed anyway for rejecting the state gods.

But yes, Christ's Coming is "Pretribulational" in the sense that it precedes God's Eternal Wrath. Christians are saved from eternal destruction by a holy fire, which vacates all sinners from the earth in eternity. This position is referred to as "Pre-Wrath," and simply states that Christians are not "destined for God's wrath," but rather, for eternal salvation at the coming of the Lord.

Exactly. The who debate about tribulation must first begin with making difference between the tribulation and wrath of the devil upon God's people on earth, which began with Cain and Abel, and the tribulation of God's wrath upon His enemies on earth.

The saints are promised to the former, which we are in the last days of, and are not appointed to the latter, which will begin with their resurrection to meet the Lord in the air.

But I am indeed Postribulational in the sense that Christians have suffered persecution and tribulation in this world from the start. It is still Satan's world, even though God rules over him. God is allowing Satan and his people to have their day before final judgment.

Exactly. That is the whole point. I believe many Christians think there is some greater tribulation to come upon the saints some time down the road, only because they aren't experiencing much of it for now.

Also, the greatest tribulation ever over all the earth, is that of God for the wicked, in the manner of the flood in Noah's day.