THE DAY OF THE LORD

[jamesdalbright]

The Day of the Lord.

According to Mal 4:5-6 Elijah is one of the two witnesses who will be sent back before the great and terrible day of the Lord. From Rev 11 we know that the two witnesses will appear during the great tribulation period. From this we can conclude that the day of the Lord occurs after the great tribulation period.
Mal 4:5-6 "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. 6 "And he will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the land with a curse.”

Acts 2:20 tells us the day of the Lord occurs after the great tribulation period, which is metaphorically described in the phrase “the sun being turned into darkness and the moon into blood”.
Acts 2:20 'THE SUN SHALL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS, AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.

Matt. 24: 15-21 tells us the great tribulation period, begins when the abomination of desolation is set up.
Matt. 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place ( let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; 17 let him who is on the housetop not go down to get the things out that are in his house; 18 and let him who is in the field not turn back to get his cloak. 19 “But woe to those who are with child and to those who nurse babes in those days! 20 “But pray that your flight may not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath; 21 for then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall.

2Th 2:2 tells us the coming of our Lord and our gathering together to him or resurrection found in 2Th 2:1 marks the beginning of the day of the Lord.
2 Th 2:1-2 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

According to 2Pet 3:10 the day of the Lord continues until the end of the age when the heavens and earth are destroyed and the judgment of the dead occurs.
2 Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

Zec 14:6-21 provides a glimpse into what the day of the Lord will be like during the 1000 year reign.
Zech. 14:6 And it will come about in that day that there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle. 7 For it will be a unique day which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light. 8 And it will come about in that day that living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter. 9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one. 10 All the land will be changed into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem; but Jerusalem will rise and remain on its site from Benjamin’s Gate as far as the place of the First Gate to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s wine presses. 11 And people will live in it, and there will be no more curse, for Jerusalem will dwell in security. 12 Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth. 13 And it will come about in that day that a great panic from the LORD will fall on them; and they will seize one another’s hand, and the hand of one will be lifted against the hand of another. 14 And Judah also will fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be gathered, gold and silver and garments in great abundance. 15 So also like this plague, will be the plague on the horse, the mule, the camel, the donkey, and all the cattle that will be in those camps. 16 Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 17 And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them. 18 And if the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 20 In that day there will be inscribedon the bells of the horses, “ HOLY TO THE LORD.” And the cooking pots in the LORD’S house will be like the bowls before the altar. 21 And every cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the LORD of hosts; and all who sacrifice will come and take of them and boil in them. And there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts in that day.

If I was going to sum up the Day of the Lord I would say it is when Jesus intervenes in the affairs of mankind and includes the resurrection, Armageddon, the disposal of the Antichrist, False Prophet and his armies, Jesus’s 1000 years reign, the destruction of the heavens and earth, the judgment of the dead, the sentencing of the unsaved to the Lake of Fire and the new heaven and the new earth.

 

[Keraz]

If I was going to sum up the Day of the Lord I would say it is when Jesus intervenes in the affairs of mankind and includes the resurrection, Armageddon, the disposal of the Antichrist, False Prophet and his armies, Jesus’s 1000 years reign, the destruction of the heavens and earth, the judgment of the dead, the sentencing of the unsaved to the Lake of Fire and the new heaven and the new earth.

Welcome to this Prophecy Forum.

I have to disagree with you summing up, as it conflicts with what the Prophets actually said and with the sequence of Revelation.
Revelation 6:12-17 is the great and terrible Day the Lord, that will change the world and commence the end times, leading up to His glorious Return. There must be at least 10 years from this disaster until the Return and then the Millennium.
As you correctly point out, then comes the Judgment of everyone and the new Jerusalem in the new earth.

 

[jamesdalbright]

Welcome to this Prophecy Forum.

I have to disagree with you summing up, as it conflicts with what the Prophets actually said and with the sequence of Revelation.
Revelation 6:12-17 is the great and terrible Day the Lord, that will change the world and commence the end times, leading up to His glorious Return. There must be at least 10 years from this disaster until the Return and then the Millennium.
As you correctly point out, then comes the Judgment of everyone and the new Jerusalem in the new earth.

Why didn't you post the scripture you claim I contradicted? The reason is because if you did everyone would see for themselves that 2Th 2:1-2 tells us the day of the Lord begins with Jesus rescuing the believers. Jesus doesn't stop His direct intervention from that day until the end of the age.
2 Th 2:1-2 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

 

[The Light]

Why didn't you post the scripture you claim I contradicted? The reason is because if you did everyone would see for themselves that 2Th 2:1-2 tells us the day of the Lord begins with Jesus rescuing the believers.

Who are the rescued believers?

 

[Keraz]

Why didn't you post the scripture you claim I contradicted? The reason is because if you did everyone would see for themselves that 2Th 2:1-2 tells us the day of the Lord begins with Jesus rescuing the believers. Jesus doesn't stop His direct intervention from that day until the end of the age.
2 Th 2:1-2 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

Because anybody can read the plain Words of 2 Thessalonians 2:1 and see it refers to the glorious Return of Jesus and when we gather to where He will be. That is: in Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:4
That verse, or any other Bible verse; does not say the Lord will rapture His people to heaven. Such a thing can never happen, we must endure until the end and then; God and heaven come to us. Revelation 21:1-7

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Day of the Lord.

According to Mal 4:5-6 Elijah is one of the two witnesses who will be sent back before the great and terrible day of the Lord. From Rev 11 we know that the two witnesses will appear during the great tribulation period. From this we can conclude that the day of the Lord occurs after the great tribulation period.
Mal 4:5-6 "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. 6 "And he will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the land with a curse.”

According to Jesus, John the Baptist was the Elijah prophesied about there.

Matthew 11:11 Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, and violent people have been raiding it. 13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. 15 Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Matthew 17:9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.” 10 The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?” 11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

The angel who appeared to John the Baptist's father Zechariah confirmed that as well:

Luke 1:11 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. 12 When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear. 13 But the angel said to him: “Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to call him John. 14 He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, 15 for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born. 16 He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

Acts 2:20 tells us the day of the Lord occurs after the great tribulation period, which is metaphorically described in the phrase “the sun being turned into darkness and the moon into blood”.
Acts 2:20 'THE SUN SHALL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS, AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.

Matt. 24: 15-21 tells us the great tribulation period, begins when the abomination of desolation is set up.
Matt. 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place ( let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; 17 let him who is on the housetop not go down to get the things out that are in his house; 18 and let him who is in the field not turn back to get his cloak. 19 “But woe to those who are with child and to those who nurse babes in those days! 20 “But pray that your flight may not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath; 21 for then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall.

2Th 2:2 tells us the coming of our Lord and our gathering together to him or resurrection found in 2Th 2:1 marks the beginning of the day of the Lord.
2 Th 2:1-2 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

According to 2Pet 3:10 the day of the Lord continues until the end of the age when the heavens and earth are destroyed and the judgment of the dead occurs.
2 Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

Where in 2 Peter 3:10 are you seeing any indication that the day of the Lord occurs over a period of time? How can the day of the Lord come unexpectedly as a thief in the night if it occurs over a long period of time?

Zec 14:6-21 provides a glimpse into what the day of the Lord will be like during the 1000 year reign.
Zech. 14:6 And it will come about in that day that there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle. 7 For it will be a unique day which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light. 8 And it will come about in that day that living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter. 9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one. 10 All the land will be changed into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem; but Jerusalem will rise and remain on its site from Benjamin’s Gate as far as the place of the First Gate to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s wine presses. 11 And people will live in it, and there will be no more curse, for Jerusalem will dwell in security. 12 Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth. 13 And it will come about in that day that a great panic from the LORD will fall on them; and they will seize one another’s hand, and the hand of one will be lifted against the hand of another. 14 And Judah also will fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be gathered, gold and silver and garments in great abundance. 15 So also like this plague, will be the plague on the horse, the mule, the camel, the donkey, and all the cattle that will be in those camps. 16 Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 17 And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them. 18 And if the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 20 In that day there will be inscribedon the bells of the horses, “ HOLY TO THE LORD.” And the cooking pots in the LORD’S house will be like the bowls before the altar. 21 And every cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the LORD of hosts; and all who sacrifice will come and take of them and boil in them. And there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts in that day.

If I was going to sum up the Day of the Lord I would say it is when Jesus intervenes in the affairs of mankind and includes the resurrection, Armageddon, the disposal of the Antichrist, False Prophet and his armies, Jesus’s 1000 years reign, the destruction of the heavens and earth, the judgment of the dead, the sentencing of the unsaved to the Lake of Fire and the new heaven and the new earth.

Again, how can the day of the Lord come unexpectedly like a thief in the night while bringing mass destruction (as indicated in passages like 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12) if it occurs over a long period of time? What you're saying simply does not line up with what Paul and Peter wrote about the day of the Lord. Zechariah wrote about a day of the Lord, but not the future day of the Lord that Paul and Peter wrote about. That can't be the case because the Zechariah 14 passage clearly does not line up with what passages like 2 Peter 3:10-12 indicate.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

According to Jesus, John the Baptist was the Elijah prophesied about there.

Jesus never stated that you just misconstrue his point. He was giving John a JUXTAPOSITON where he was telling John's former disciples, now his disciples, that among the sons born to women John was as great as any, then he makes that statement, in modern English I will tell you what it means.

He is saying John preached the exact same repentance that Elijah will preach, but we know Israel did not repent, and we already know that !! But Israel will repent at the very end of time during the 70th week JUST BEFORE the DOTL at the 1335, which comes 775 days before the 1260.

Reading Luke 1 will help you clarify this, the Angel tells then that John has come in "The SPIRIT of Elijah" he never says he is Elijah, Jesus is merely comparing their faithfulness and work rate. Satan loves to conflate the scriptures, thus we have to be very carful.

 

[jamesdalbright]

Because anybody can read the plain Words of 2 Thessalonians 2:1 and see it refers to the glorious Return of Jesus and when we gather to where He will be. That is: in Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:4
That verse, or any other Bible verse; does not say the Lord will rapture His people to heaven. Such a thing can never happen, we must endure until the end and then; God and heaven come to us. Revelation 21:1-7

Again you avoided answering my response to your day of the Lord claim. Furthermore you continue to be sneaky and again only referenced 2Th 2:1 when it is 2Th 2:1-2 that corrects your idea that the resurrection is not included in the day of the Lord. This makes it the third time I posted 2Th 2:1-2 for you and no doubt you will ignore it. 2Th. 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
If you are going to say I contradicted the Prophets you had better post the scripture.

 

[QuantumBit]

...he never says he is Elijah...

Matthew 11:14
"And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."

Satan loves to conflate the scriptures, thus we have to be very carful.

As proven by the lie you just told.

 

[jamesdalbright]

Who are the rescued believers?

The answer is obvious, which is why I don't think you wrote what you actually meant to say. Who do you say they are?

 

[jamesdalbright]

According to Jesus, John the Baptist was the Elijah prophesied about there.

Matthew 11:11 Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, and violent people have been raiding it. 13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. 15 Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Matthew 17:9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.” 10 The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?” 11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

The angel who appeared to John the Baptist's father Zechariah confirmed that as well:

Luke 1:11 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. 12 When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear. 13 But the angel said to him: “Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to call him John. 14 He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, 15 for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born. 16 He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”


Where in 2 Peter 3:10 are you seeing any indication that the day of the Lord occurs over a period of time? How can the day of the Lord come unexpectedly as a thief in the night if it occurs over a long period of time?


Again, how can the day of the Lord come unexpectedly like a thief in the night while bringing mass destruction (as indicated in passages like 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12) if it occurs over a long period of time? What you're saying simply does not line up with what Paul and Peter wrote about the day of the Lord. Zechariah wrote about a day of the Lord, but not the future day of the Lord that Paul and Peter wrote about. That can't be the case because the Zechariah 14 passage clearly does not line up with what passages like 2 Peter 3:10-12 indicate.

According to Mat 17:10-12 and Mark 9:12 John the Baptist was not the returning Elijah. After John the Baptist had already been beheaded Jesus stated that Elijah is still coming in Mat 17:11 and Mark 9:12.
Matt. 17:10 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” 11 And He answered and said, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things; 12 but I say to you, that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.”
Mark 9:11-12 And they asked Him, saying, "Why is it that the scribes say that Elijah must come first?" 12 And He said to them, "Elijah does first come and restore all things. And yet how is it written of the Son of Man that He should suffer many things and be treated with contempt?


The answer to why Jesus said that Elijah had already come and that he will come in the future is found when we compare the effect that John was having at the time and the effect that Elijah will have when he comes, which as is stated in Luke 1:13-17 and Mal 4:5-6 is that both caused the hearts of fathers to turn back to the children.
Luke 1:13 But the angel said to him, “ Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your petition has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you will give him the name John. 14 “And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. 15 “For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and he will drink no wine or liquor; and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, while yet in his mother’s womb. 16 “And he will turn back many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 “And it is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, TO TURN THE HEARTS OF THE FATHERS BACK TO THE CHILDREN, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous; so as to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
Mal 4:5-6 "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. 6 "And he will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the land with a curse."


John himself said he was not Elijah who is to come.
John 1:19-21 And this is the witness of John, when the Jews sent to him priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?" 20 And he confessed, and did not deny, and he confessed, "I am not the Christ." 21 And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" And he said^, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No."

I answered your question about 2Pet in my original post.

 

[jamesdalbright]

Matthew 11:14
"And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."



As proven by the lie you just told.

Below are the scriptures and common sense that I use to address the issue.

According to Mat 17:10-12 and Mark 9:12 John the Baptist was not the returning Elijah. After John the Baptist had already been beheaded Jesus stated that Elijah is still coming I Mat 17:11 and Mark 9:12.
Matt. 17:10 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” 11 And He answered and said, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things; 12 but I say to you, that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.”
Mark 9:11-12 And they asked Him, saying, "Why is it that the scribes say that Elijah must come first?" 12 And He said to them, "Elijah does first come and restore all things. And yet how is it written of the Son of Man that He should suffer many things and be treated with contempt?

The answer to why Jesus said that Elijah had already come and that he will come in the future is found when we compare the effect that John was having at the time and the effect that Elijah will have when he comes, which as is stated in Luke 1:13-17 and Mal 4:5-6 is that both caused the hearts of fathers to turn back to the children.
Luke 1:13 But the angel said to him, “ Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your petition has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you will give him the name John. 14 “And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. 15 “For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and he will drink no wine or liquor; and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, while yet in his mother’s womb. 16 “And he will turn back many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 “And it is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, TO TURN THE HEARTS OF THE FATHERS BACK TO THE CHILDREN, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous; so as to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
Mal 4:5-6 "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. 6 "And he will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the land with a curse."

John himself said he was not Elijah who is to come.
John 1:19-21 And this is the witness of John, when the Jews sent to him priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?" 20 And he confessed, and did not deny, and he confessed, "I am not the Christ." 21 And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" And he said^, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No."

 

[QuantumBit]

Hi @jamesdalbright .

My views have been called 'unorthodox', so what I believe may sound strange.

I do not want to derail your thread, so I will just state my beliefs.

According to Mat 17:10-12 and Mark 9:12 John the Baptist was not the returning Elijah.

I believe it was literal. Yes, I am weird like that... lol.

The answer to why Jesus said that Elijah had already come and that he will come in the future...

I believe John will come back as Elijah in the future... in another Body.

John himself said he was not Elijah who is to come.

Indeed, however I believe John either lied through fear of being killed or did not know. To me, Jesus overrules what John said.

Having said all of that, I do not blame you for thinking I am crazy or whatever.

I am a rare Chrisitan that believes that the Spirit of a person can literally come back as a new baby.

 

[Keraz]

Again you avoided answering my response to your day of the Lord claim. Furthermore you continue to be sneaky and again only referenced 2Th 2:1 when it is 2Th 2:1-2 that corrects your idea that the resurrection is not included in the day of the Lord. This makes it the third time I posted 2Th 2:1-2 for you and no doubt you will ignore it. 2Th. 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
If you are going to say I contradicted the Prophets you had better post the scripture.

2 Thess 2:1 does not say anything about resurrection when Jesus Returns. Living humans will be gathered, as 1 Thess 4:17 and Matthew 24:31 tell us. Brought to be with Jesus, in Jerusalem.
I have reported your rude accusation of 'sneaky'

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus never stated that you just misconstrue his point.

He very specifically stated that, so I completely disagree with you.

Again...

Matthew 11:11 Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, and violent people have been raiding it. 13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. 15 Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Matthew 17:9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.” 10 The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?” 11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

This is very straightforward. If you want to deny it, that's your choice, but it is undeniable that he said that John the Baptist "is the Elijah who was to come".

He is saying John preached the exact same repentance that Elijah will preach, but we know Israel did not repent, and we already know that !!

But some of them did, so what is your point? About 3,000 of them did on the day of Pentecost alone.

But Israel will repent at the very end of time during the 70th week JUST BEFORE the DOTL at the 1335, which comes 775 days before the 1260.

I completely disagree. that is not taught anywhere in scripture.

Reading Luke 1 will help you clarify this, the Angel tells then that John has come in "The SPIRIT of Elijah" he never says he is Elijah, Jesus is merely comparing their faithfulness and work rate. Satan loves to conflate the scriptures, thus we have to be very carful.

LOL. Are you thinking that I was saying that John the Baptist was literally Elijah? The whole point is that the Elijah to come would come in the spirit of Elijah (it would be someone like Elijah rather than Elijah himself). That is what the New Testament clarifies for us. I am not conflating the scriptures, I am allowing the New Testament scripture to tell me what the Old Testament scripture means, unlike you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

According to Mat 17:10-12 and Mark 9:12 John the Baptist was not the returning Elijah.

How do you figure? Matthew 17:10-13 very specifically indicates that John the Baptist WAS the returning Elijah.

Matthew 17:9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.” 10 The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?” 11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

Jesus said "Elijah has already come" and then it shows that the disciples understood that he was talking about John the Baptist. Why don't you understand that? It's spelled out for you right in the text.

John himself said he was not Elijah who is to come.
John 1:19-21 And this is the witness of John, when the Jews sent to him priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?" 20 And he confessed, and did not deny, and he confessed, "I am not the Christ." 21 And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" And he said^, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No."

You're just not getting it. Of course he was not the literal Elijah and no one is saying that. But, we know from passages like Matthew 11:11-14 and Matthew 17:10-14 that John the Baptist was the fulfillment of the Elijah to come. And we know from Luke 1 that the context was in terms of him coming in the spirit of Elijah (he was like Elijah), so that's how the prophecy should be understood. You are not allowing New Testament scripture to interpret the Old Testament scripture for you.

 

[The Light]

The answer is obvious, which is why I don't think you wrote what you actually meant to say. Who do you say they are?

The obvious answer is the seed of the woman, Israel. Is that what you think?

 

[Ronald D Milam]

He very specifically stated that, so I completely disagree with you.

This only means you do not understand what an "IDIOM" is.

Again...

Matthew 11:11 Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, and violent people have been raiding it. 13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. 15 Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Matthew 17:9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.” 10 The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?” 11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

This is very straightforward. If you want to deny it, that's your choice, but it is undeniable that he said that John the Baptist "is the Elijah who was to come".

Again, this is not straightforward via your thinking, it is straightforward via my thinking.

Men can not be born again, the bible says men are born ONCE then they must die and/or be judged. No man has ever been born to a mother twice, PERIOD. If Israel had been willing to accept Jesus Elijah would have been sent back with a glorious body in Jesus' time, instead John was sent in the Spirit of Elijah and did everything Elijah would have done. So, I will interpret what Jesus says above, it escapes you.

He is telling them, John came in Elijah's place, because God foreknew Israel was not going to repent and Elijah RESORES Israel !! He doesn't not get rejected by Israel and killed by a king of Israel. He will get killed by a Demon named Apollyon, along with Moses.

So, Jesus in Matt. 17 tells the Disciples Elijah will come "TO RESTORE Israel" get it? Israel is RESTORED when Elijah comes, 1/3 repent, Israel as a nation is saved. Then he gives them an idiom, John came and he was Elijah (IN SPRIT) he did the exact same thing as Elijah will do in other words but Israel refused, at that moment in time, to repent. Thus God brought about the Diaspora.

The ABOVE is called an IDIOM. John was not Elijah nor could he have been. Now go read Luke 1 where an Angels says outright that Elijah came in the Spirit of Elijah.

But some of them did, so what is your point? About 3,000 of them did on the day of Pentecost alone.

I completely disagree. that is not taught anywhere in scripture.

Israel was not RESTORED dude, come on. You missed the boat on this one, you just did not grasp Jesus was using an idiom here, REMEMVBER, no man is ever going to be born twice, that is just common sense, God would never allow that.

I completely disagree. that is not taught anywhere in scripture.

What is not taught? That Israel does not repent before the DOTL? WATCH

Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

THEN IN THE VERY NEXT VERSE !!

Zech. 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

THEN............Or 3.5 years later(BELOW) Jesus shows up in verse 3 to destroy the Beast and take over.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

Malachi 4: 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

LOL. Are you thinking that I was saying that John the Baptist was literally Elijah? The whole point is that the Elijah to come would come in the spirit of Elijah (it would be someone like Elijah rather than Elijah himself). That is what the New Testament clarifies for us. I am not conflating the scriptures, I am allowing the New Testament scripture to tell me what the Old Testament scripture means, unlike you.

Elijah comes before the DOTL to turn Israel back unto God, John came in place of Elijah and did everything Elijah will do but Israel still refused to repent.

Elijah and Moses will be sent back during the 70th week, after the Rapture.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Malachi 3&version=KJV

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This only means you do not understand what an "IDIOM" is.


Again, this is not straightforward via your thinking, it is straightforward via my thinking.

Men can not be born again, the bible says men are born ONCE then they must die and/or be judged. No man has ever been born to a mother twice, PERIOD. If Israel had been willing to accept Jesus Elijah would have been sent back with a glorious body in Jesus' time, instead John was sent in the Spirit of Elijah and did everything Elijah would have done. So, I will interpret what Jesus says above, it escapes you.

He is telling them, John came in Elijah's place, because God foreknew Israel was not going to repent and Elijah RESORES Israel !! He doesn't not get rejected by Israel and killed by a king of Israel. He will get killed by a Demon named Apollyon, along with Moses.

So, Jesus in Matt. 17 tells the Disciples Elijah will come "TO RESTORE Israel" get it? Israel is RESTORED when Elijah comes, 1/3 repent, Israel as a nation is saved. Then he gives them an idiom, John came and he was Elijah (IN SPRIT) he did the exact same thing as Elijah will do in other words but Israel refused, at that moment in time, to repent. Thus God brought about the Diaspora.

The ABOVE is called an IDIOM. John was not Elijah nor could he have been. Now go read Luke 1 where an Angels says outright that Elijah came in the Spirit of Elijah.




Israel was not RESTORED dude, come on. You missed the boat on this one, you just did not grasp Jesus was using an idiom here, REMEMVBER, no man is ever going to be born twice, that is just common sense, God would never allow that.


What is not taught? That Israel does not repent before the DOTL? WATCH

Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

THEN IN THE VERY NEXT VERSE !!

Zech. 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

THEN............Or 3.5 years later(BELOW) Jesus shows up in verse 3 to destroy the Beast and take over.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

Malachi 4: 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.


Elijah comes before the DOTL to turn Israel back unto God, John came in place of Elijah and did everything Elijah will do but Israel still refused to repent.

Elijah and Moses will be sent back during the 70th week, after the Rapture.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Malachi 3&version=KJV

Okay, "dude". It's quite clear that you can't be reasoned with. Jesus said "Elijah has already come" and that it was John the Baptist and you say he has not come yet. I will side with Jesus on this.

 

[quietthinker]

There have been several 'Elijahs'......John the Baptist being one.....but not in the sense that he was the historical Elijah reincarnated.......more in the sense of having the message of repentance ......repentance in the face of apostasy.