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The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by christiang, Jun 20, 2017.

  1. christiang

    christiang Active Member

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  2. oldhermit

    oldhermit Active Member

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    Let me begin by simply asking a question. Do you believe that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are God?
     
  3. Deborah_

    Deborah_ Active Member

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    The doctrine of the Trinity does not depend on either of those two verses anyway.
     
  4. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    We already have a thread on here with 49 posts ...called " The Problem With The Trinity "
    Do we really need another one on the same subject so soon! Why don't you just join in that one?
    The other one isn't even finished yet! Last post was 10am today!!
    Just saying...
     
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  5. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    The Trinity is a satanic rabbit hole.
     
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  6. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    :D ;) Come, come...don't be shy, tell us how you REALLY feel. LOL :);)
     
  7. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Christiang said: This study goes over the scriptures and doctrinal reasons that contradict the doctrine of the trinity, along with the manuscript evidence proving the forgery of the two Trinitarian verses.

    Job said: The Trinity is a satanic rabbit hole.

    I say the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost are three different entities or a group of three or the state of being three that make up ONE.

    Scripture names them as three separate entities but they are always ONE.

    Makes sense to me.

    If you believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as being ONE you are falling for a lie? A satanic rabbit hole? LOL

    My two cents worth...Mary
     
  8. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    Is the Trinity a salvation issue?

    Will an individual lose their salvation if they don't believe in the Trinity?
     
  9. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    It's coming...
     
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  10. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Haha! You are one of the reason I enjoy this Site Job. :D
     
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  11. oldhermit

    oldhermit Active Member

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    Usually, when someone rejects the idea of the trinity it is either because they do not believe in the deity of Christ and the person of the Holy Spirit or because they cannot conceive of the "One God" of Deut 4 as representing anything but a single numeric essence of being.
     
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  12. Mungo

    Mungo Well-Known Member

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    I've had a read though but its just a lot of out of context quotes, strung between unwarranted assumptions and unsubstantiated assertions. It's not worth spending time on but for those who might read this I will make a comment on the falseness of your opening assertions.

    1John 5:7-8. It's true that the phrase "the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." does not appear in later manuscripts, as many translations note. But that does not mean that it is a forgery.

    A forgery implies a deliberate attempt to deceive. which you have not, and cannot, prove. Some commentators suggest it was a gloss (a comment) that became added to some texts when copied. This would be a corruption; to call it a forgery is dishonest

    Matthew 28:19 You provide no evidence that this was not in the original texts, nor do I know of any. I know of no translation that comment on this. Even the JW translation (and they are not Trinitarian) has this verse.

    You claim that it is a forgery seem to be based on your intellectual inadequacy to reconcile it with text that refer to baptism "in the name of Jesus". Actually it is quite simple.

    At the time there were two baptism's with water in operation - John's baptism and Christian baptism (see Acts 19:3-5). Baptism in the name of Jesus (and variations) was the name or designation given to Christian baptism to distinguish it from John's baptism.

    When Jesus said (Mt 28:19) "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" he was giving them the form of words to be used in the baptism.

    The Didache or The Teachings of The Twelve Apostles is an important work, believed to date to the 1st century. Indeed some date it as early as 60-70 AD. The author is unknown and one source suggests it is a composition of two or three tracts. It seems to be a manual of instruction for pagans who wish to become Christians and contains catechetical and liturgical instructions. It says this on how to baptise:

    “And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. But if you have no living [running] water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit.” (chap 7).

    Thus a document from apostolic times and practices is consistent with Mt 28:19. To claim Mt 28:19 is a forgery is baseless.
     
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  13. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    I reject the idea because it's a man made doctrine.
     
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  14. oldhermit

    oldhermit Active Member

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    Do you believe Jesus is God?
     
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  15. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    I don't play those games.

    If you choose to believe in the trinity, that's your business. I choose not to.
     
  16. oldhermit

    oldhermit Active Member

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    Was that too difficult a question for you?
     
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  17. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    Why do you care whether I believe in the trinity or not?
     
  18. oldhermit

    oldhermit Active Member

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    Well, this is a discussion board so I thought perhaps you were here on this particular thread to discuss the nature of God. I was hoping you would have a bit more to offer than just "I reject the idea...."
     
  19. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    GINOLJC, to oldhermit, good question. I believe that the Holy Spirit is the Lord Jesus in flesh and bone. let me make my position clear, the Holy Spirit and the Lord Jesus is the "SAME" PERSON, notice I said "Person, and not Persons. who is diversified in Spirit. remember, I said diversified person, not separate persons. and two I fully believe that the Lord Jesus is GOD ALMIGHTY diversified, or manifested in flesh and bone himself. now for you to understand me in knowledge, diversified means the EQUAL "share" of himself, or the equal share in flesh and blood.
    I'll be looking to hear from you. thanks in advance.
     
  20. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    I reject the idea and first thing you do is question my faith. We can discuss all day long but if you have doubts about my faith in the Lord, what's the point? To you I'm a nonbeliever.

    As I said earlier, salvation isn't tied into believing in the trinity. It's a man made doctrine. It's a rabbit hole I don't choose to go down. I have enough on my plate as it is without heaping on piles of conjecture.
     
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