The Distinction of Persons in The Holy Trinity

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptise them into the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19)

Jesus does not say, in “ta onomata”, in the Greek, which is the plural, “Names”. But, clearly uses the singular, “to onoma”, THE NAME. It might be reasonably asked, that, as there are Three Persons mentioned in this verse, why would Jesus use the singular, “Name”, and not the plural, “Names”? This singular “Name” is common with the Three Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. They share this equally.

When Moses witnessed the spectacular event of the “Burning Bush”, which was not consumed, in Exodus chapter 3, the Lord God spoke to him from the bush, are told him that he had been chosen to deliver God’s people, the children of Israel, from Egypt. Moses asks the Lord, that if he were asked for the identity of this God, what Name should he give them. To which the Lord God Almighty answered, "Ehyeh ’ăsher ’ehyeh", which is best rendered in our English as, “I am Who I am”(verse 14), which means, “Eternal, Self-existing, All-powerful, Creator God”. In fact, the Greek version of the Hebrew Old Testament, which was produced some 150 years before the Birth of Jesus Christ, by the best Hebrew scholars of the day, render the Hebrew text as, “"ego eimi ho on", which is, “I am the Eternal One”. Say to those who ask of you, that “I AM” (’ehyeh), has sent me to you. “God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘The YHWH, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is My Name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.” (verse 15). The Hebrew Name of God, “Yahweh”, has its root in the verb, “’ehyeh”, speaking of the “eternal, self-existence” of the God of the Holy Bible, Who is Unique, as He has no equal.

The main Name of the Triune God of the Holy Bible, is “Yahweh”, or, as some use the corrupted form, “Jehovah”. It is this NAME, that Jesus Christ refers to in Matthew 28:19, which is used equally for the Three Persons.

Next, we read, “του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος”, that is, “The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit”. The Greek "article" (tou), is repeated, with each noun, to show that a "distinction" of Persons is meant. “The repeated article, on the other hand, implies a separation, in themselves, or in the view taken of them” (Dr Samuel Green; Handbook to the Grammar of the Greek Testament, pages, 198-199). The Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit. The Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit, is not the Father or the Son.

John in the first verse of his Gospel, writes, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”. “and the Word was with God”, in the Greek is, “ο λογος ην προς τον θεον”, where we have two articles in the Greek, “ο τον”, the verb “ἦν”, and the preposition, “προς”. This shows that “the Word”, is “distinct” to “the God”, where we have the two articles in the Greek, but also the preposition that literally means, “in the presence of, besides”, which cannot be understood of “the Word”, as being identical Person, as “the God”, Who He is “with”. Had John wished to show that “the Word”, and “the God”, in this verse, were “one and the same Person”, then, instead of the preposition “προς”, he would have used, "εv". This would mean that the “Godhead” cannot be a “Trinity”, and that “Unitarianism” was true. However, the precise language in the Greek, used by the Holy Spirit, shows that “Unitarianism”, is heretical. John goes on to identify “the Word”, by saying, “και θεος ην ο λογος”, literally, “and God was the Word”. The Greek used by John here does not allow for “a god”, or “divine”

In John 10:30, Jesus is the Speaker, were He says, “εγω και ο πατηρ εν εσμεν”, where the literal English is, “I and the Father one We are”. “I” is “distinct” from “ο πατηρ the Father”, which is also seen in the use of the plural, “εσμεν”, which cannot mean “one Person”. Then we have the neuter “εν”, literally, “one thing”. In verse 28 Jesus is speaking of His sheep, and says, “no one shall snatch them out of my hand”. In the next verses He says, “My Father… no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand”. This shows the equality of “power” and “protection” that is “united” with Jesus Christ and His Father. Note also, that Jesus places Himself first here, then the Father, showing that He is 100% coequal with the Father, and as much “God”, as the Father is. Again, the distinction between Jesus Christ and the Father, is clear.

In John 16:28, Jesus says, “ I came from the Father”, (εξηλθον παρα του πατρος), where the preposition, “παρα”, means, “beside, from the side of”, showing that Jesus and the Father are “distinct”, as Persons. In Luke 6:12, we read of Jesus praying to “του θεου” (the God), where it is clear that He is “distinct” from the One to Whom He was praying. When Jesus was being baptized by John, in the river Jordan (Matthew 3:13-16), we read in verse 17, “And there came a Voice from heaven: This is My Beloved Son. I take delight in Him!”. The Voice of God the Father, came “out of the sky”, which cannot be the same place that Jesus was, which was on earth with John.

In Acts chapter 5 we read, “But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thy heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land? While it remained, did it not remain thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thy power? How is it that thou hast conceived this thing in thy heart? thou has not lied unto men, but unto God.” (verses 3-4). Why did the devil cause you to lie to “το πνευμα το αγιον”, (the Spirit the Holy). By doing so, you have not lied to “ανθρωποις”, a “human being”, but, to “τω θεω”, the God. A very clear passage for the absolute Deity of the Holy Spirit. Note the use of the Greek “τω”, which makes the use of “θεω”definite. It cannot be understood in any lower sense, as “divine”, or “god”.

In John’s Gospel Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit, as “another Comforter” (14:16). “another” is from “ἄλλος”, which means, “another, i. e. one besides what has been mentioned”. The Holy Spirit continued His work after Jesus had departed from earth (John 16:4-16). Jesus Himself is called “Advocate”, in 1 John 2:1, which is the same Greek word as “Comforter”. Jesus says that The Holy Spirit is One “like” Himself, but not Himself. In John 15:26, Jesus says of the Holy Spirit, “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall bear witness of Me”. Here the Holy Spirit is said to be “παρα the Father”, the same word used in John 16:28, of Jesus Christ and the Father. It should also be noted here, that Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit as “εκεινος”, that is, the masculine, personal, “He”, and not the impersonal neuter “εκεινο”, which would have been expected as “το πνευμα” (the Spirit) is in the neuter gender. This destroys the heresy of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and others, who teach that the Holy Spirit is just an “impersonal force”, used by God. In this verse, Jesus is the Speaker, Who says that He will send the Holy Spirit, “another Comforter”, distinct from Himself, Who “comes from beside the Father”, Who is yet another Person. The Three Persons of the Holy Trinity seen here!

There are some who suppose, that in the Holy Trinity, there is some hierarchy of Persons. The Father is the “Primary”, and then the Son, as “Secondary”, and even lower, the Holy Spirit. This is seen from Scriptures like Matthew 28:19, where it reads, “the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". But, as we shall see, this is not true. In 2 Corinthians 13:14, it says, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.” Jesus Christ is first, and then the Father, and then the Holy Spirit. However, in Ephesians 4:4-6, it says, “There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all”. The Holy Spirit is first, then Jesus Christ, and then the Father. And in Titus 3:4-6, “But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior”. The Father is first, then the Holy Spirit, and then Jesus Christ. So, the “order” in which the Persons of the Holy Trinity are mentioned, make no difference on how important they are, or, if one Person is more “Deity” than the other. In should be noted, that in the Greek of these passages, there is a distinction between the Persons, so that they are not one and the same.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChristisGod

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit. The Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit, is not the Father or the Son.

While this is true in one sense, it is untrue in another.

The Father is not the Son; but the Son is the Father (Isaiah 9:6).

The Father is an eternal Spirit, who inhabits eternity (Isaiah 57:15). That eternal Spirit descended and took on an added nature of human flesh (Luke 1:35).

Jesus is "made of the seed of David according to the flesh" (Romans 1:3); in His Deity, He is the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11).

He is the Son in that He is come in human flesh. The same Spirit (essence, if you will) who inhabits eternity, is the same Person who dwells in flesh. One God.

But distinct in that one is in flesh and the other is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity.

Then, when Jesus died on the Cross, He released His Spirit (who is the Father, John 14:7-11) back into eternity to the Father who inhabits eternity (Luke 23:46).

For because the Father inhabits eternity, He did not vacate eternity when He descended and took on an added nature of human flesh.

For if a Person inhabits eternity, they are there eternally by the nature of what eternity is.

So, God the Father (who, according to the OP, bears the name of Jesus Christ) lived one eternal moment and then descended to take on an added nature of human flesh,

Eph 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Now when Jesus died on the Cross, he released His Spirit back to the Father (Luke 23:46), thus duplicating the Spirit of the Lord. The Spirit who is given to the Father from Jesus' body bears the title of Holy Ghost. Now, He is the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11) but He is distinct from the Father in that He 1) now proceeds from the Father (John 15:26); and, 2) He has lived a human life and therefore understand humanity; whereas the Father (the 1st Person of the Trinity), who has never been human from where He sits in eternity, relies on the Son and the Spirit to make intercession for those whom He wants to save (Romans 8:26-27); because both the Son and the Spirit understand humanity well enough to make proper intercession and to accomplish the will of the Father in saving those who can be saved, since they are both the same Person as the Father and yet also distinct from Him in that 1) the Son is come in the flesh; and, 2) the Holy Ghost, while being the same Spirit as the Father, yet has lived a human life and therefore understands humanity. So, they, while being the same Person, have distinct personalities because of the distinctions of being in the flesh on the part of the Son, and having lived a human life on the part of the Holy Ghost.

Now the Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) and He is holy.

So, does that not make Him a holy Spirit?

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); and God is a Spirit (John 4:24).

Therefore, if Jesus is God, then He is a Spirit; and since there is one Spirit, He would have to be the same Spirit as the Father.

Thus, in Isaiah 9:6-7, it is the zeal of the LORD of hosts that will perform this, that the name of the son that was given shall be called "The everlasting Father" and "Wonderful Counsellor"...both the Father and the Holy Ghost.

For in Jesus Christ dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9).

That is, one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, Ephesians 4:6).

Now there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5) and He is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). And yet, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Spirit of truth (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)). And, Jesus is the Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6).

And also, the Lord is that Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17), even the Holy Ghost.

I have preached more on this in my thread on the Trinity.

True Trinity. (especially posts #1-#6).
 
Last edited:

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
While this is true in one sense, it is untrue in another.

The Father is not the Son; but the Son is the Father (Isaiah 9:6).

The Father is an eternal Spirit, who inhabits eternity (Isaiah 57:15). That eternal Spirit descended and took on an added nature of human flesh (Luke 1:35).

Jesus is "made of the seed of David according to the flesh" (Romans 1:3); in His Deity, He is the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11).

He is the Son in that He is come in human flesh. The same Spirit (essence, if you will) who inhabits eternity, is the same Person who dwells in flesh. One God.

But distinct in that one is in flesh and the other is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity.

Then, when Jesus died on the Cross, He released His Spirit (who is the Father, John 14:7-11) back into eternity to the Father who inhabits eternity (Luke 23:46).

For because the Father inhabits eternity, He did not vacate eternity when He descended and took on an added nature of human flesh.

For if a Person inhabits eternity, they are there eternally by the nature of what eternity is.

So, God the Father (who, according to the OP, bears the name of Jesus Christ) lived one eternal moment and then descended to take on an added nature of human flesh,

Eph 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Now when Jesus died on the Cross, he released His Spirit back to the Father (Luke 23:46), thus duplicating the Spirit of the Lord. The Spirit who is given to the Father from Jesus' body bears the title of Holy Ghost. Now, He is the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11) but He is distinct from the Father in that He 1) now proceeds from the Father (John 15:26); and, 2) He has lived a human life and therefore understand humanity; whereas the Father (the 1st Person of the Trinity), who has never been human from where He sits in eternity, relies on the Son and the Spirit to make intercession for those whom He wants to save (Romans 8:26-27); because both the Son and the Spirit understand humanity well enough to make proper intercession and to accomplish the will of the Father in saving those who can be saved, since they are both the same Person as the Father and yet also distinct from Him in that 1) the Son is come in the flesh; and, 2) the Holy Ghost, while being the same Spirit as the Father, yet has lived a human life and therefore understand humanity. So, they, while being the same Person, have distinct personalities because of the distinctions of being in the flesh on the part of the Son, and having lived a human life on the part of the Holy Ghost.

Now the Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) and He is holy.

So, does that not make Him a holy Spirit?

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); and God is a Spirit (John 4:24).

Therefore, if Jesus is God, then He is a Spirit; and since there is one Spirit, He would be the same Spirit as the Father.

Thus, in Isaiah 9:6-7, it is the zeal of the LORD of hosts that will perform this, that the name of the son that was given shall be called "The everlasting Father" and "Wonderful Counsellor"...both the Father and the Holy Ghost.

For in Jesus Christ dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9).

That is, one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, Ephesians 4:6).

Now there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5) and He is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). And yet, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Spirit of truth (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)). And, Jesus is the Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6).

And also, the Lord is that Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17), even the Holy Ghost.

I have preached more on this in my thread on the Trinity.

True Trinity. (especially posts #1-#6).

your theology is Unitarianism, and therefore not Biblical. You are forcing the Bible to support what you believe, and your lack of Biblical understanding on the Holy Trinity, shows in what you have written
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChristisGod

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
your theology is Unitarianism, and therefore not Biblical. You are forcing the Bible to support what you believe, and your lack of Biblical understanding on the Holy Trinity, shows in what you have written
No, my friend. I am preaching the Trinity in its truest form.

I have not eisegeted any text.

I have gotten my understanding from the text.

I spent many years reading the Bible with the doctrine of the Trinity in mind, on the backburner of my thinking, so to speak.

Any time I came across a verse or passage that applied to the doctrine, I stored it for contemplation.

I definitely believe in three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

I'll tell you a secret...my goal is to bring Oneness Pentecostals to an understanding of the truth of God's Triune nature...and an added bonus is that Tritheists are also being called out for their false doctrine that is in their minds. Because they think that they are Trinitarians; but in reality they are not...in all reality they believe in three Gods.

That might be you if you think that I am preaching heresy.

In all reality I am not preaching heresy but I am preaching the truth that the Lord has given me.

Eph 3:3, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

I emphasize the oneness of the Lord in my preaching; but I want to be clear in saying that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct in my mind.

Nevertheless it should be clear that it is the biblical teaching that there is one God (James 2:19).
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
No, my friend. I am preaching the Trinity in its truest form.

I have not eisegeted any text.

I have gotten my understanding from the text.

I spent many years reading the Bible with the doctrine of the Trinity in mind, on the backburner of my thinking, so to speak.

Any time I came across a verse or passage that applied to the doctrine, I stored it for contemplation.

I definitely believe in three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

I'll tell you a secret...my goal is to bring Oneness Pentecostals to an understanding of the truth of God's Triune nature...and an added bonus is that Tritheists are also being called out for their false doctrine that is in their minds. Because they think that they are Trinitarians; but in reality they are not...in all reality they believe in three Gods.

That might be you if you think that I am preaching heresy.

In all reality I am not preaching heresy but I am preaching the truth that the Lord has given me.

Eph 3:3, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

I emphasize the oneness of the Lord in my preaching; but I want to be clear in saying that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct in my mind.

Nevertheless it should be clear that it is the biblical teaching that there is one God (James 2:19).

you write, "The Father is not the Son; but the Son is the Father (Isaiah 9:6). and "And also, the Lord is that Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17), even the Holy Ghost." as two examples from #2

In the first place, "The everlasting Father", is not saying that Jesus Christ is God the Father. The Hebrew here is literally, "Father of Eternity", From Whom eternity originates, as in "The First and The Last".

In the passage in 2 Corinthians, The "Lord" here is not Jesus Christ, but the Holy Spirit, where the Greek construction, "ο δε κυριος το πνευμα εστιν", with the repeated article, "ο, το", can read, "And the Spirit is Lord", as the verse goes on to say, "and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." and this is clear from verse 18, "απο κυριου πνευματος", "from the Lord Spirit".

No where in the Bible are The Three Persons in the Trinity, shown as identical Persons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChristisGod

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In the first place, "The everlasting Father", is not saying that Jesus Christ is God the Father. The Hebrew here is literally, "Father of Eternity", From Whom eternity originates, as in "The First and The Last".

The Father of eternity is still the Father.

Now, are you going to change that scripture a second time in order to make it fit your theology?

In the passage in 2 Corinthians, The "Lord" here is not Jesus Christ, but the Holy Spirit,

So, Jesus is not the Lord (see 1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv))?

Because the scripture teaches that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6).

(And therefore if the "Lord" there is not Jesus Christ but the Holy Spirit, then the Holy Spirit is the Lord and Jesus Christ is not, if Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit be not the same Lord.)

How then is the Holy Spirit the Lord if He is not the Spirit of Christ?
 
Last edited:

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,761
2,421
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptise them into the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19)
...So, the “order” in which the Persons of the Holy Trinity are mentioned, make no difference on how important they are, or, if one Person is more “Deity” than the other. In should be noted, that in the Greek of these passages, there is a distinction between the Persons, so that they are not one and the same.

I really don't know much Greek--just enough to understand the arguments here. Sounds pretty good. The Trinity contains concepts that transcend our ability to understand completely, because we would have to be God to know what He is like in comparison to Jesus or the Holy Spirit, both of whom can be seen within the finite realm of time and space. Well, we can see the Son, but we see the Spirit's activities.

I do think it's important to understand the role of each Person of the Trinity because of how we relate to them in our life. We must relate to Jesus by adopting his human attributes with divine virtue. We must put those same virtues on and into our own life.

And we must understand the Holy Spirit by knowing God in the course of our lives, by recognizing spiritual guidance from God. We must recognize activities as being either from God or from other sources. We must have spiritual discernment.

And of course, we must see God as the transcendent One, who surpasses all the things in this world. We must see him as distinct from anything we know in this world. And we must recognize His character as the Holy One.

I would have to admit that there is a hierarchy, of sorts, between Father and Son is indicated. Jesus said, "the Father is greater than I." (John 14.28). This is certainly not denying their common identity as God, the "I Am." That is already understood.

Rather, the Son appears in an inferior form of the inexpressible infinite Deity as a man. God reveals Himself in time and space, which is an expression of His Word. As such, His infinite Word can appear in finite expressions of an infinite Deity.

Thanks for a well-written statement of doctrinal orthodoxy regarding the Trinity. I'm on board with that insofar as I can understand the Greek. ;)
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
I would have to admit that there is a hierarchy, of sorts, between Father and Son is indicated. Jesus said, "the Father is greater than I."

Jesus is here speaking during His Incarnate life, as the God-Man, and as The Servant. the Bible says that during this time Jesus laid aside His "equality" with God the Father, as seen in Philippians 2:5-11; John 17:5; Hebrews 2:2-9; Luke 24:26. While Jesus was during His earthly life "subordinate" to the Father, yet, because He never ceased to be Almighty God, He could, while on earth demand equal honor with the Father, John 5:23, say that He and the Father wre "one" as to their Power and Authority and Protection, John 10:30, accept the fact when told that He was "equal to God" John 5:18; accept Worship as God, Matthew 14:33, had the power to forgive sins Matthew 9:1-8, etc, etc. There is no doubt that Jesus Christ, with the Holy Spirit, are 100% coequal, coessential and coeternal with the Father.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Randy Kluth

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,761
2,421
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus is here speaking during His Incarnate life, as the God-Man, and as The Servant. the Bible says that during this time Jesus laid aside His "equality" with God the Father, as seen in Philippians 2:5-11; John 17:5; Hebrews 2:2-9; Luke 24:26. While Jesus was during His earthly life "subordinate" to the Father, yet, because He never ceased to be Almighty God, He could, while on earth demand equal honor with the Father, John 5:23, say that He and the Father wre "one" as to their Power and Authority and Protection, John 10:30, accept the fact when told that He was "equal to God" John 5:18; accept Worship as God, Matthew 14:33, had the power to forgive sins Matthew 9:1-8, etc, etc. There is no doubt that Jesus Christ, with the Holy Spirit, are 100% coequal, coessential and coeternal with the Father.

You're really good at explaining this. Since the Trinity Doctrine is also one of my favorite subjects, I really appreciate it.

Not all see the importance of it, but I was in a modalist cult for a short time, and it definitely had a negative impact on the followers of that cult. For the record, it is legally referred to as a *Christian* cult. But I don't find it to be good. Though they deny now being modalist, they certainly had been.

The cults tend to base their religion on a subjective spirituality, viewing their own experience as superior to biblical doctrine. The Mormons do this, claiming they have a "burning sensation" inside, validating their Mormon faith as "from God."

The modalist cult I was in blurred the distinction between Christ and the Holy Spirit precisely so that they could follow their own version of the "Holy Spirit" without having to apply any real objective basis to keep them "orthodox." If Christ is the Holy Spirit, then following the Spirit within them did not require application to Christ in his earthly life or in his teaching. What they experience was, for them, Christ himself. And that kept them, they thought, "proper Christians."

So I think it very important that we establish a clear distinction between the Persons of the Trinity. And I appreciate your clear ability to do this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChristisGod

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The main Name of the Triune God of the Holy Bible, is “Yahweh”, or, as some use the corrupted form, “Jehovah”. It is this NAME, that Jesus Christ refers to in Matthew 28:19, which is used equally for the Three Persons.
is not the Name "Yahweh” just as corrupt as "Jehovah?”. is it not?

men cannot even get God's Holy Name right.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
and you know that how? do you know Hebrew?
first thanks for the reply, second, I know it by READING the BIBLE with the HOLY GHOST. lets explain. many think God's personal name came in Exodus 3:13 "And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

there is the blunder of many right there, "What is his name?" and God gave Moses just what he asked for... nothing more or nothing less. understand, Moses asked God, "WHAT" is his name to thell the People... notice "WHAT" God is not "WHO" God is in Name. let us make it clear unto you. if I ask you, "WHAT" is the First woman Name?". many would say "EVE", and they would be in ERROR. the correct response would be "Adam", because that's "WHAT" she is in name, supportive scripture, Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;"
Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.". see, Adam is "WHAT" she is, (Mankind, of Male and Female), and NOT "WHO" she is in Name. now if I would have asked, "Who is the First Woman", the correct respond would have been EVE, because that's "WHO" she is in Name, see the difference.

now the false name Jehovah, that's in many bible, even the KJV. listen, in Exodus 6:3 while still speaking with Moses, God almighty says this. "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them." here, clear as day in the Bible, God said, Abraham did not know him by the name JEHOVAH, (the I AM from the tetragrammaton), correct. now listen, Genesis 22:14 "And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen." well how did "Jehovah" get into Abraham mouth when clearly God said he didn't know him by that name? and Genesis do come before Exodus. so did Moses incorrectly use the name... no, for he was under the inspiration of the Spirit. so how did Jehovah get into Abraham mouth? answer, the translators. because God don't lie, neither Moses, nor Abraham. so in translation, they the translators added that name into Abraham mouth, and by doing so exposed themselves.

but fear not, the KJV, exposes such things by the inspiration of the SAME Holy Spirit, listen and here's why I know, as you asked. Isaiah 52:5 "Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed."
Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I."
see, that's how I know that the false names Jehovah, aka, Yahweh are blasphemies. see Romans 2:14, and now we, (us Gentiles), not ME, and not all, but most, hold onto these blaspheming Names that they, (men gave to God). but God said, Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I."
SHALL know?, YES, Shall is a future tense designation, meaning God will reveal his Personal Name. now remember, Isaiah comes after Genesis, and Exodus, and his People did not know his Name, as to "WHO" he is, well that DAY came when he, God Spoke, remember he said, "therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I". well when did God speak in THAT "DAY?" answer, listen,

John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." what did JESUS say in Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.".

BINGO, there it is , "I am he". he told you, and he said this, "for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

see, this is how I know, (because the same KJV expose the fals name and render the TRUE NAME. no need to be a Hebrew scholar..... in Fact, "I AM THAT I AM", in Exodus 3:14, IS A VERB AND NOT EVEN A NOUN. H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw) v. VERBS ARE ACTIONS WORDS, they describe "WHAT" you are, and not, as Nouns do, in "WHO" you are, see the difference.

I AM THAT I AM, describe "WHAT" God is, Almighty, Creator, Maker of All things, LORD, Saviour, Redeemer, King, Lord, Father, Son.... ect... see, that "WHAT" he is in Name. Who he is, a NOUN, in NAME is, "JESUS" or Hebrew "YESHUA", the Strong's # is (H3442), it is written Yod-Shin-Vav-Ayin, it is a masculine noun that means, "He is salvation" or "He saves”. for only God SAVES. H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l.

see, the Lord Jesus said, "I Come in my Father's Name". well was it "Jehovah?" ... NO. so many have been duped by the double tongue.

I hope this helped.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Clearly, Jesus commanded us to baptize in the name (singular) of the Father even of the Son even of the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19).

What is that singular name?

It is Jesus Christ, if Peter was being obedient to the Great Commission when he baptized in Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39...

And therefore, Jesus Christ is the name of the Father...even of the Son...even of the Holy Ghost.
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
first thanks for the reply, second, I know it by READING the BIBLE with the HOLY GHOST. lets explain. many think God's personal name came in Exodus 3:13 "And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

there is the blunder of many right there, "What is his name?" and God gave Moses just what he asked for... nothing more or nothing less. understand, Moses asked God, "WHAT" is his name to thell the People... notice "WHAT" God is not "WHO" God is in Name. let us make it clear unto you. if I ask you, "WHAT" is the First woman Name?". many would say "EVE", and they would be in ERROR. the correct response would be "Adam", because that's "WHAT" she is in name, supportive scripture, Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;"
Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.". see, Adam is "WHAT" she is, (Mankind, of Male and Female), and NOT "WHO" she is in Name. now if I would have asked, "Who is the First Woman", the correct respond would have been EVE, because that's "WHO" she is in Name, see the difference.

now the false name Jehovah, that's in many bible, even the KJV. listen, in Exodus 6:3 while still speaking with Moses, God almighty says this. "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them." here, clear as day in the Bible, God said, Abraham did not know him by the name JEHOVAH, (the I AM from the tetragrammaton), correct. now listen, Genesis 22:14 "And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen." well how did "Jehovah" get into Abraham mouth when clearly God said he didn't know him by that name? and Genesis do come before Exodus. so did Moses incorrectly use the name... no, for he was under the inspiration of the Spirit. so how did Jehovah get into Abraham mouth? answer, the translators. because God don't lie, neither Moses, nor Abraham. so in translation, they the translators added that name into Abraham mouth, and by doing so exposed themselves.

but fear not, the KJV, exposes such things by the inspiration of the SAME Holy Spirit, listen and here's why I know, as you asked. Isaiah 52:5 "Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed."
Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I."
see, that's how I know that the false names Jehovah, aka, Yahweh are blasphemies. see Romans 2:14, and now we, (us Gentiles), not ME, and not all, but most, hold onto these blaspheming Names that they, (men gave to God). but God said, Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I."
SHALL know?, YES, Shall is a future tense designation, meaning God will reveal his Personal Name. now remember, Isaiah comes after Genesis, and Exodus, and his People did not know his Name, as to "WHO" he is, well that DAY came when he, God Spoke, remember he said, "therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I". well when did God speak in THAT "DAY?" answer, listen,

John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." what did JESUS say in Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.".

BINGO, there it is , "I am he". he told you, and he said this, "for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

see, this is how I know, (because the same KJV expose the fals name and render the TRUE NAME. no need to be a Hebrew scholar..... in Fact, "I AM THAT I AM", in Exodus 3:14, IS A VERB AND NOT EVEN A NOUN. H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw) v. VERBS ARE ACTIONS WORDS, they describe "WHAT" you are, and not, as Nouns do, in "WHO" you are, see the difference.

I AM THAT I AM, describe "WHAT" God is, Almighty, Creator, Maker of All things, LORD, Saviour, Redeemer, King, Lord, Father, Son.... ect... see, that "WHAT" he is in Name. Who he is, a NOUN, in NAME is, "JESUS" or Hebrew "YESHUA", the Strong's # is (H3442), it is written Yod-Shin-Vav-Ayin, it is a masculine noun that means, "He is salvation" or "He saves”. for only God SAVES. H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l.

see, the Lord Jesus said, "I Come in my Father's Name". well was it "Jehovah?" ... NO. so many have been duped by the double tongue.

I hope this helped.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Jesus Christ The Great I AM
 

fellow

Active Member
Jan 17, 2020
164
29
28
83
ark
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptise them into the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19)
God has used different functions but He is the only God!
 

fellow

Active Member
Jan 17, 2020
164
29
28
83
ark
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
what do you mean by "functions?", so that we can be clear in UNDERSTANDING

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
2Sa_22:33 God is my strength and power: and he maketh my way perfect.
Psa_59:9 Because of his strength will I wait upon thee: for God is my defence.
Psa_62:7 In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God.
Psa_74:12 For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth.
Isa_12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
Hab_3:19 The LORD God is my strength, and he will make my feet like hinds' feet, and he will make me to walk upon mine high places. To the chief singer on my stringed instruments.
Rom_1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Php_1:8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
2Sa_22:33 God is my strength and power: and he maketh my way perfect.
Psa_59:9 Because of his strength will I wait upon thee: for God is my defence.
Psa_62:7 In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God.
Psa_74:12 For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth.
Isa_12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
Hab_3:19 The LORD God is my strength, and he will make my feet like hinds' feet, and he will make me to walk upon mine high places. To the chief singer on my stringed instruments.
Rom_1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Php_1:8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.
are you trying to use an "operation", of God, who is Jesus, as a function?.... 1 Corinthians 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit."
1 Corinthians 12:5 "And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord."
1 Corinthians 12:6 "And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all."

is this what you're saying?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"