The Doctrine of OSAS

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justaname

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I simply question if someone can thwart God's plan for sanctification in the life of the believer once He has started. (Philippians 1:6)


If Jesus died on the cross for the sins of humanity (1John 2:2), then what sin that I may commit will exclude me from salvation, excluding the whole "blaspheme the HolySpirt"?

How can anyone live up to God's holy standard? Lets keep in mind sins of omission, sins of pride, sins of vanity, impure thoughts, unwholesome words, and so on...

Where is the tipping point? Just when is salvation lost in the believer?

I believe that once we are created anew (2 Corinthians 5:17), sealed with the HolySpirit (Ephesians 4:30), we are protected (Psalms 121:7-8) by a jealous God (Exodus 34:14), that instills fear in our hearts so that we will not turn from Him. (Jeremiah 32:40) He changes our thinking pattern,(Romans 12:2) and moves us to good works. (Ephesians 2:10)

All of this is His doing and not our own! We have faith that El Elyon is a God that keeps His promises. (Daniel 9:4)

Please do not be fooled into thinking that hollow or empty confessions of faith are redemptive, (Matthew 7:21) or that a life of faith allows lawlessness. (Romans 6:1-2) These are not on the path of salvation.

I agree we need to cooperate in the sanctification process, and this is what all the exhorting and warning passages are about. (Romans 6:19) Yet does everyone progress in the same fashion? Are we to judge the timing of the progression?

Those who are not brought into salvation, were they ever going to be saved by God in the first place? Were they ever sealed with the HolySpirit? Remember God knows the end from the beginning, (Isaiah 46:10) thereby He knows all those who are saved by name. (John 10:3)
 
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AndyBern

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My pastor has a saying: "You can lose your salvation but you can't lose God's salvation." Perhaps more accurately put: If you can lose your salvation, you never had it to begin with.
 
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Angelina

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I believe that this doctrine is the very catalyst of why Churches allow for same sex marriages, divorced an re-marriage, tolerance of unrepentant homosexual practices, false prophets and strange fire and I agree with....



Please do not be fooled into thinking that hollow or empty confessions of faith are redemptive, (Matthew 7:21) or that a life of faith allows lawlessness. (Romans 6:1-2) These are not on the path of salvation.
2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”
 

justaname

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Angelina said:
I believe that this doctrine is the very catalyst of why Churches allow for same sex marriages, divorced an re-marriage, tolerance of unrepentant homosexual practices, false prophets and strange fire and I agree with....




2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”
I believe sin and the fallen state of humanity is the catalyst for allowance of these practices.

I do not believe this doctrine when used in proper function does anything to hinder the Church. In fact it only supports confidence in the work and salvation of the Lord, which is something that helps me when being attacked from the enemy.

To use your own scripture, the Lord knows who are His!
 

AndyBern

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If you are truly saved, then you will not be comfortable with sin in your life. You will not be able to do whatever you want and be ok with it. if you are comfortable with sin, then you are not saved.

I think the Corinthian church is a good example of OSAS. They were divisive and immoral. Yet Paul wrote of them as saved (1 Cor. 1:1-9). The Galatian church appeared to be better outwardly as trying to follow the Law, but Paul was much harsher with them.
 
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Angelina

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If you are truly saved, then you will not be comfortable with sin in your life. You will not be able to do whatever you want and be ok with it. if you are comfortable with sin, then you are not saved.
This, I agree with as stated when quoting justaname's - post above...

I think the Corinthian church is a good example of OSAS. They were divisive and immoral. Yet Paul wrote of them as saved
did he? :huh:

1 Corinthians 1
2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

1 Corinthians 5
9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves

The Galatian church appeared to be better outwardly as trying to follow the Law, but Paul was much harsher with them.
They were not better outwardly because they were trying to follow the law. Although they obviously had the Holy Spirit which was given to them by faith in Christs shed blood and the work of the cross, they went back to the law. Galatians 3:1-5

God is not a respecter of persons. Acts 10:34-35

Shalom!
 

justaname

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Angelina said:
That would be true of a non-believer...but not in the body of Christ
So are you saying the body of Christ is completely devoid of sin? I don't completely comprehend what your are conveying. Can you be more specific or clearer?

Can you comment on my questions in the OP since you disagree? (This is not a challenge, rather a request.)


AndyBern said:
If you are truly saved, then you will not be comfortable with sin in your life. You will not be able to do whatever you want and be ok with it. if you are comfortable with sin, then you are not saved.

I think the Corinthian church is a good example of OSAS. They were divisive and immoral. Yet Paul wrote of them as saved (1 Cor. 1:1-9). The Galatian church appeared to be better outwardly as trying to follow the Law, but Paul was much harsher with them.
I don't think Paul condones immoral activity, Angelina did a good job pointing that out.
Personally I think people get the wrong idea about OSAS, though not always.




This goes out to everyone. Do you or do you not agree with the OSAS doctrine? Why or why not? Supporting scripture?

Only
Saints
Are
Saved
:D
 

williemac

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Re question from #10: From God's perspective, it is osas. Jesus assured us that those who are of faith in Him will not come into (God's) judgment (John 5:24). But in theory, a person can fall from his faith. At least it is given hypothetically in scripture. We are exhorted to remain in the faith. But as well, In Heb.6:6, if one does actually manage to fall away, he cannot change his mind (the meaning of repentance) The verse says this is impossible.

So we can say for sure , 'SO'. Saved once. So God will grant life and give the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of our inheritance. From His perspective, based on His promise, He has no intention of withdrawing life once granted. He could not honestly give a guarantee otherwise. Since it is by faith we receive this gift of life and the spirit, It is only a reversal of this acceptance from the man's side of it, that in theory, he can lose what he had. It will never be taken away by virtue of a judgment.

It should be noted that those who would argue this by referring to Rev.2&3, the two churches that were in trouble were very similar. One was dead, the other lukewarm. The lukewarm church did not have the indwelling presence of God. Therefore in both cases they had not yet received what was necessary. You cannot have (eternal) life and be declared (eternally) dead. This is still a faith issue. Faith is the means by which we receive life and the Spirit.

I know there will be an argument, but I still maintain that sin cannot bring judgment to condemnation in the person who has the Son and therefore has passed from death to life (John5:24). Sin can bring chastening. But this is not the kind of judgment that Jesus said we will not come into. I wait with baited breath for all the objections. But how will any of them stand up to John5:24? I have yet to see it.
 

Angelina

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Many Charismatic and Pentecostals do not hold to this doctrine. It is supposedly advocated strongly in the Southern Baptist Churches and centered mainly in the US.

Most traditional Calvinistic Baptist churches believe in this doctrine but traditional Arminain Baptist churches do not while Independent Baptist churches are split.
 

justaname

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williemac said:
Re question from #10: From God's perspective, it is osas. Jesus assured us that those who are of faith in Him will not come into (God's) judgment (John 5:24). But in theory, a person can fall from his faith. At least it is given hypothetically in scripture. We are exhorted to remain in the faith. But as well, In Heb.6:6, if one does actually manage to fall away, he cannot change his mind (the meaning of repentance) The verse says this is impossible.

So we can say for sure , 'SO'. Saved once. So God will grant life and give the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of our inheritance. From His perspective, based on His promise, He has no intention of withdrawing life once granted. He could not honestly give a guarantee otherwise. Since it is by faith we receive this gift of life and the spirit, It is only a reversal of this acceptance from the man's side of it, that in theory, he can lose what he had. It will never be taken away by virtue of a judgment.

It should be noted that those who would argue this by referring to Rev.2&3, the two churches that were in trouble were very similar. One was dead, the other lukewarm. The lukewarm church did not have the indwelling presence of God. Therefore in both cases they had not yet received what was necessary. You cannot have (eternal) life and be declared (eternally) dead. This is still a faith issue. Faith is the means by which we receive life and the Spirit.

I know there will be an argument, but I still maintain that sin cannot bring judgment to condemnation in the person who has the Son and therefore has passed from death to life (John5:24). Sin can bring chastening. But this is not the kind of judgment that Jesus said we will not come into. I wait with baited breath for all the objections. But how will any of them stand up to John5:24? I have yet to see it.
I like the way you opened your statement. This subject is definitely a two sided coin. Without question God will not go against His promise.

This only then leaves the believer to be able to thwart the salvation process.

Now this brings into question a few things.

1. Is the new covenant a suzerainty treaty or something all together different?
2. Can someone truly believe something in their heart and head, then gain the assurance and protection of the Almighty God, and then discontinue in their belief?
3. Will God let go of those He intends to save?
4. Is free will more sovereign than God?
5. Are we the ultimate author of our faith?


Here is a verse to chew on whilst thinking on the subject.

1John 2:19

19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.
 

Angelina

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Many Charismatic and Pentecostals do not hold to this doctrine. It is supposedly advocated strongly in the Southern Baptist Churches and centered mainly in the US.

Most traditional Calvinistic Baptist churches believe in this doctrine but traditional Arminain Baptist churches do not while Independent Baptist churches are split.
Few Evangelical and Fundamental Christians realize that OSAS is the minority view in Christianity today. It is held almost exclusively by Presbyterians, Baptists, and some non-denominational groups with roots in one of these two denominations. OSAS is rejected by the majority of Christians. But, what may come as a bigger shock is that OSAS is a new doctrine unheard of prior to John Calvin. For the first 1500 years of Christianity, Christians believed it was possible for true believers to fall away and be lost forever if they did not persevere in their faith unto the end. In the words of John Wesley: "whatever is true is not new; whatever is new is not true."
http://www.pfrs.org/osas/

Your quote:
Here is a verse to chew on whilst thinking on the subject.
1John 2:19

19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.
Who went away from who?
 

JB_Reformed Baptist

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I don't think the doctrine of OSAS is really the problem. I believe it to be the heart of men who claim salvation and define GRACE according to their carnal minds and think they can sin with impunity, so with others. Yet this isn't the nature of Christ at all. He always sought to please his father. So do the elect of God, not as complete as the LORD, nevertheless, the tenor of our lives is to the GLORY OF GOD



Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Jud 1:2-4
 

AndyBern

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While I believe in OSAS, any salvation that includes "Now I can do whatever I want" is not true salvation. Salvation includes regeneration, where God gives you His Holy Spirit and puts His law in your heart so that you won't think that way. Saved people still sin, but it grieves and disturbs them, and they want to stop. (And God provides his Holy Spirit to enable them to stop - Romans 7-8.)

I think there are many who think they are saved but are not. When asked, "Are you saved?", they'll say something like "Sure, I accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior", or "I said the sinner's prayer", or "I believe in Jesus", or something they have done, rather than talk about what they know God has done in them: forgiven them only by His grace. God is the one who gives the assurance of salvation.
 

williemac

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AndyBern said:
While I believe in OSAS, any salvation that includes "Now I can do whatever I want" is not true salvation. Salvation includes regeneration, where God gives you His Holy Spirit and puts His law in your heart so that you won't think that way. Saved people still sin, but it grieves and disturbs them, and they want to stop. (And God provides his Holy Spirit to enable them to stop - Romans 7-8.)

I think there are many who think they are saved but are not. When asked, "Are you saved?", they'll say something like "Sure, I accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior", or "I said the sinner's prayer", or "I believe in Jesus", or something they have done, rather than talk about what they know God has done in them: forgiven them only by His grace. God is the one who gives the assurance of salvation.
Some good points. But I want to comment that the statement "I can do anything I want" is unlikely, anyway. It would be like saying "sin is O.K.". This would not sit right with one who has come to God knowing that Jesus died for his sin. The very acknowledgment of sin and the need for salvation is the acknowledgment that sin is not ok. And here is the thing. God knows the heart. Eternal life is not just a concept, as we know. It is real. The new birth is real. And it is given as a gift. Would God be fooled into giving the gift of life to disingenuous faith? I don't think so. This is the part that I think lacks consideration. We are talking about God, here, not man. Man can be fooled. God's assurance comes with the gift. But He knows who He gives the gift to.
 

justaname

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Angelina said:
Few Evangelical and Fundamental Christians realize that OSAS is the minority view in Christianity today. It is held almost exclusively by Presbyterians, Baptists, and some non-denominational groups with roots in one of these two denominations. OSAS is rejected by the majority of Christians. But, what may come as a bigger shock is that OSAS is a new doctrine unheard of prior to John Calvin. For the first 1500 years of Christianity, Christians believed it was possible for true believers to fall away and be lost forever if they did not persevere in their faith unto the end. In the words of John Wesley: "whatever is true is not new; whatever is new is not true."
http://www.pfrs.org/osas/

Your quote:

Who went away from who?
Jude 4
4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:4
4 But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.



So to answer your question, liars went away from believers. As to the Wesley quote...
What is so new about this?

Philippians 1:6
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

From this verse I can say I have no confidence in the flesh, yet my confidence is in the one who gave His flesh for me to live! Let me be as bold to say those who deny this doctrine seem to have no confidence in the flesh or the word of the Lord. Is it we need to work to keep our salvation? No deeds are not the answer, but what is the work of God except to believe in Jesus Christ?

If the very Spirt that raised Him from the dead is in me, will He not raise me to everlasting life? Being the old self has been put to death, this new creature I am now a slave to righteousness, am I wrong in believing the promise given by the perfect word of God? Should I not boast in confidence of the Lord?

Or should I live a life of timidness being tossed too and fro by every wave of deception?

I say NO! I am confident of this very thing, that our God is a promise keeper, and He completes that which He starts. My hope is not based on things unproven, but on the resurrection of Jesus Christ! Is this a new gospel? I say nay, it is the same gospel of the apostles, the original gospel, the same gospel as spoken by Jesus our gracious Lord Himself.

John 6:37-40

37 “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 “This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

Now is this doctrine really unheard of for 1500 years?
 

Guestman

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The teaching of "once saved always saved" is the supporting framework of some churches, lulling their members into a false sense of security. Millions from nearly every religion and sect of Christendom have been led to believe that they are "born again" and "saved", with the religious leaders telling them that they are at peace with God because they are "saved", despite their religious, political and nationalistic divisions. And the people love it, just as the apostle Paul said that there would be those who love having their "ears tickled".(2 Tim 4:3) They think that they are beyond the reach of God's Armageddon judgment.(Rev 16:14, 16)


Jesus established that only a "few" would qualify for life, measure up to being worthy, saying: "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it."(Matt 7:13, 14)


He also established that there would be many who have a profession of Christianity, even saying "Lord ! Lord !" to Jesus as their "Savior" but would fail the test of a true Christian.(Matt 7:21-23) At Luke 13, Jesus said to "exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able."(Luke 13:24)


However, can a person lose God's favor once they have measured up to his holy standards for righteousness ? Yes. The apostle Paul wrote to the Hebrew Christians: "That is why it is necessary for us to pay more than the usual attention to the things heard by us, that we may never drift away."(Heb 2:1)

A person in a boat on a lake or especially in the ocean may not notice that they are slowly drifting from where they were, but over time, they have moved a considerable distance without being aware of it. Hence, a person who had God's favor, can allow the encroachment of the "world" to slowly pull him away from our Creator till he has lost his spirituality and love for God.


At Ezekiel 33, Jehovah God says: "When I say to the righteous one: "You will positively keep living, "and he himself actually trusts in his own righteousness and does injustice, all his own righteous acts will not be remembered, but for his injustice that he has done - for this he will die."(Eze 33:13) Thus, a person who was righteous, but left it and began to do "injustice" has lost Jehovah's favor and now "the wrath of God remains upon him."(John 3:36)


The apostle Paul wrote to Timothy that the "inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies."(1 Tim 4:1, 2)


After the death of the apostles at the end of the 1st century C.E., apostasy was already at work, in which some began to alter "the pure religion" that Jesus established.(James 1:27, KJV) These ' fell away from the faith ', so that over the course of several centuries, what Jesus laid down as "the truth" was distorted and altered so as to be unrecognizable.(Matt 13:24-30)
 

Arnie Manitoba

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Guestman said:
The teaching of "once saved always saved" is the supporting framework of some churches, lulling their members into a false sense of security.
That is tantamount to saying that Jesus Christ has lulled some people into a false sense of salvation.

We have great security in our salvation ..... even though we are not always great Christians.