The Elect

[guysmith]

Matthew 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

It can be deduced, from the above statement, that the "elect" will be the only Christians alive at Christ's advent.

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Isaiah 65:9
And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

 

[lecoop]

Matthew 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

It can be deduced, from the above statement, that the "elect" will be the only Christians alive at Christ's advent.

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Isaiah 65:9
And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

Unless by "elect" God is speaking of the Jews (Hebrews) and not of the church at all.

Coop

 

[Brother Mike]

WoW!!!!


Now we got to find these elect......and hang out with them!!!

Thanx for pointing this out Guysmith.....I feel safer already.


Jesus Is Lord

 

[Brother Mike]

I see another post by Guysmith in the debate forum where this should have stayed........ If this is the Elect Doctrine on the Calvin side of things (As there are many variations of this silly Doctrine) then it most definitely should stay in the debate forum.

Jesus Is Lord

 

[HammerStone]

There's no need to create two topics with the same title and text, and this is also against forum rules.

Topics merged.

Thanks.

 

[Martin W.]

We should always keep in mind that the elect could be referring to Israel (not the Church)

The scriptures in the new testament always clearly distinguishes between the church and Israel.

That is until the you read the end time scriptures where the church appears to be absent.

 

[jerryjohnson]

We should always keep in mind that the elect could be referring to Israel (not the Church)

The scriptures in the new testament always clearly distinguishes between the church and Israel.

That is until the you read the end time scriptures where the church appears to be absent.

That is because most of the church is Israel.

 

[Martin W.]

That is because most of the church is Israel.

Paul gave the most information distinguishing Israel from The Church yet also labeled himself as an Apostle to another group known as the Gentiles.

Most of us today are likely descendants of those gentiles , mixed in with the early (Jewish) christian converts who spread around the world. I also accept that the other tribes of Israel could very well be amongst us but we have no definitive way of knowing it until the 144,000 are selected.

 

[jerryjohnson]

Paul gave the most information distinguishing Israel from The Church yet also labeled himself as an Apostle to another group known as the Gentiles.

Most of us today are likely descendants of those gentiles , mixed in with the early (Jewish) christian converts who spread around the world. I also accept that the other tribes of Israel could very well be amongst us but we have no definitive way of knowing it until the 144,000 are selected.

You might not know who they are but I do.

 

[Martin W.]

I have a mixture of opinions on this whole topic and have decided to prepare for them all.

...... I do think it is proper at times for we Christians to consider ourselves "THE elect"

....... Yet at times God refers to Israel as "HIS Elect" .

...... and then you come to Revelation where at first the Church is clearly defined , then seems to disappear.

....... while the church appears to be absent for much of revelation, there is now constant mention of "The Saints"

....... Are "the saints" new believers saved during the tribulation , or are they the remaining Israeli's ?


Because we do not precisely know for sure I allow for all of the above or none of the above to be possible , all along knowing God has not designed the tribulation to be aimed at me. It is for the unsaved followers of the beast.

You might not know who they are but I do.

History gives us a very long list of people who claim the same knowledge.

 

[jerryjohnson]

....



History gives us a very long list of people who claim the same knowledge.

So if so many know where they are why don't you?

 

[jiggyfly]

I have a mixture of opinions on this whole topic and have decided to prepare for them all.

...... I do think it is proper at times for we Christians to consider ourselves "THE elect"

....... Yet at times God refers to Israel as "HIS Elect" .

...... and then you come to Revelation where at first the Church is clearly defined , then seems to disappear.

....... while the church appears to be absent for much of revelation, there is now constant mention of "The Saints"

....... Are "the saints" new believers saved during the tribulation , or are they the remaining Israeli's ?







History gives us a very long list of people who claim the same knowledge.

I agree, the Greek word eklektos simply means "chosen" so in every work, age and dispensation that God according to His will and purpose chooses some to be the vessel(s) by means or simply the recipients this would make them the elect or chosen ones but this does not mean the scripture is referring to the same group throughout. God has chosen some to represent the gospel in this dispensation but that doesn't mean that He is not reconciling everyone to Himself.

 

[fivesense]

Matthew 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

It can be deduced, from the above statement, that the "elect" will be the only Christians alive at Christ's advent.

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Isaiah 65:9
And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

Divide the word, divide the word, divide the word... Who's our Lord talking to? Is there any clue? The elect of Israel, God's choice out of all the posterity of Abraham, are going to experience the prophecy of Ezekiel: [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.

And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant: Ezk 20:33-37

He hasn't done this yet. He is going to; He swore to it. His elect out of Israel, including the 144,000, will escape the fury to come.

The Body of Christ is not earthly, terrestrial, physical. It is a new creation, not connected to the earth. It is heavenly in citizenship and spiritual in function, and will ever be that way. There is no two-sided coin here, one face the obverse. There is only one Body, it is spiritual. We cannot drag it down to the ground by blending the Law with grace, making it part of the Kingdom of God on earth and Israel as its regents. We are beyond that, the wall of separation being torn down in Christ, and our access to the Father already a reality. The Father will not have it so, and our expectation does not include it. We will be transformed, changed into deathless beings at His advent. Nothing less will do. The Body of Christ can never see the tribulation without defying the proclamation of grace and faith found in the Cross of Christ.
fivesense

 

[jerryjohnson]

Divide the word, divide the word, divide the word... Who's our Lord talking to? Is there any clue? The elect of Israel, God's choice out of all the posterity of Abraham, are going to experience the prophecy of Ezekiel: [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.

And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant: Ezk 20:33-37

He hasn't done this yet. He is going to; He swore to it. His elect out of Israel, including the 144,000, will escape the fury to come.

The Body of Christ is not earthly, terrestrial, physical. It is a new creation, not connected to the earth. It is heavenly in citizenship and spiritual in function, and will ever be that way. There is no two-sided coin here, one face the obverse. There is only one Body, it is spiritual. We cannot drag it down to the ground by blending the Law with grace, making it part of the Kingdom of God on earth and Israel as its regents. We are beyond that, the wall of separation being torn down in Christ, and our access to the Father already a reality. The Father will not have it so, and our expectation does not include it. We will be transformed, changed into deathless beings at His advent. Nothing less will do. The Body of Christ can never see the tribulation without defying the proclamation of grace and faith found in the Cross of Christ.
fivesense

The 144,000 are all ready well in the process of being called out. The Dispensation of Grace will end soon and we will be in the Dispensation of Judgement where once again their will be Hebrew and Greek, male and female.

 

[Brother Mike]

Fivesense:

The Body of Christ is not earthly, terrestrial, physical. It is a new creation, not connected to the earth.

Pretty Amazing statement..... We are not of this World. Not under the beggarly elements of this World. Howbeit Sickness is of this World, and does not belong to us..............(Had to get that in, being Word of faith and all)

Pretty Awesome stuff Fivesense.


JiggyFly:

God has chosen some to represent the gospel in this dispensation but that doesn't mean that He is not reconciling everyone to Himself.

Um...............Gospel in this dispensation?? You and those fancy words........ God is not a respecter of Persons. The elect Doctrine is a bunch of @#%@$@!@#@# (EDIT) It is Written that God did reconcile the World unto himself, now if your dumb, you won't accept his terms though Jesus to be reconciled.

Still.............. You mentioned that He gave some to preach, teach this Gospel. (He has chosen some) Apostles, Prophets, Pastors, Teachers, Evangelist. That being said, even if your not one of those, your still part of the Body, and have been called to do something. Sounds like your trying to use scripture to free up more time to fish. I can't prove this, but I am watching.................... B)

Jesus Is Lord

 

[Martin W.]

The Body of Christ is not earthly, terrestrial, physical. It is a new creation, not connected to the earth.

Somehow I overlooked this profound truth in your post until Mike pointed it out. Thanks.

Jesus (by his death and insurrection) has cleared the path for us but we are not completely there yet. We also must die and be resurrected to be fully there.

The only exception will be the living Christians whom Christ translates in the twinkling of an eye in the end times.

 

[Martin W.]

(Paul speaking in 2:Timothy) ....... 10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

 

[fivesense]

Somehow I overlooked this profound truth in your post until Mike pointed it out. Thanks.

Jesus (by his death and insurrection) has cleared the path for us but we are not completely there yet. We also must die and be resurrected to be fully there.

The only exception will be the living Christians whom Christ translates in the twinkling of an eye in the end times.

You got it,toyota
fivesense

 

[jiggyfly]

Fivesense:


Pretty Amazing statement..... We are not of this World. Not under the beggarly elements of this World. Howbeit Sickness is of this World, and does not belong to us..............(Had to get that in, being Word of faith and all)

Pretty Awesome stuff Fivesense.


JiggyFly:



Um...............Gospel in this dispensation?? You and those fancy words........ God is not a respecter of Persons. The elect Doctrine is a bunch of @#%@$@!@#@# (EDIT) It is Written that God did reconcile the World unto himself, now if your dumb, you won't accept his terms though Jesus to be reconciled.

Still.............. You mentioned that He gave some to preach, teach this Gospel. (He has chosen some) Apostles, Prophets, Pastors, Teachers, Evangelist. That being said, even if your not one of those, your still part of the Body, and have been called to do something. Sounds like your trying to use scripture to free up more time to fish. I can't prove this, but I am watching.................... B)

Jesus Is Lord

I think you misunderstood my post Mike, I am not a proponent of t5he "elect doctrine" propagated by Calvinism. I was merely pointing out that the many places in the scriptures that are translated as elect are not all referring to the same group of people. They are vessels that God has chosen for this or for that, just the same as Saul was chosen to be an apostle to the Gentiles.

I believe that in the end everyone is reconciled to Father through Christ, tis exactly what Father sent His Son(the Word of God) to do. It is obvious that Calvinism and Arminianism cannot both be right but it is very possible that they can both be wrong. Which is why I am not an advocate of either. I go with Jesus being totally victorious and accomplishing exactly what His Father sent Him to do.

 

[Helen]

Bump

So...who are the Elect...The born again Jewish people?...or some out of the NT Church...or both? ( could it be both ?)
Interesting... I have no idea.