The Elect?

[amadeus]

In response to the suggestion by my dear old friend @"ByGrace" I have started this thread based on these questions:

Yes, and then comes the question again of just who exactly are the elect...
and how are they selected?
Were they really preselected as some apparently believe?

I am purposely NOT trying to answer them now.

Below are answers some provided on the thread where this started

 

[amadeus]

By @Dave L
As I came to believe over time, God only gives persevering faith and the witness of the Spirit to those for whom Christ died. If I were not one of them, I would not believe in Christ. I'd love sin more than God and return to my evil ways.

 

[amadeus]

By @CoreIssue
The answer is simple. Read Romans 8.

 

[amadeus]

By @Copperhead

If you stop at Romans 8, that leads one to conclude one thing. But if one throws in Romans 9, 10, and 11 and then tosses in Isaiah 45, then one comes to another conclusion.

And if we take all instances in scripture of "elect", there are 4 different assignments of elect. One to Yeshua, one to the Hebrews, one to those in the Body of Messiah, and one to certain angels.

Now it then becomes a question of which elect is being referenced in Matthew 24. Since the start of the discourse in Matthew 23:37 onward the theme has been Jerusalem, the Temple, Shabbat, Judea, etc, my money is on the elect of Jacob (Judah and Israel) as per Isaiah 45 and affirmed by Paul in Romans 11. Sure isn't Yeshua or the angels.

I know that some equate anything Yeshua talked about as having something to do with the church, but I don't. And when one gets a real grasp on what the main purpose of the Tribulation period is for, then it clears up any conflicts. Some seem to desperately want to go thru the GT period. Not sure how they see that as comforting, but they must.

 

[amadeus]

By @Enoch111
The apostate will not be among the elect. But the true children of God will not be deceived by Satan's signs and lying wonders.

There are many bogus miracles and miracle workers today. But Christians should not be deceived. The teachings of these miracle workers generally expose them. And their greed for gain is a sure sign that they are not from God.

 

[Helen]

Hey John (@amadeus )

Glad that you did this.
For myself I believe it is shown in the " Many are called but few are chosen"
Much like the army, many are called up...but not all make the grade.
Some are chosen to lead , take responsibility, and sacrifice...

In the story of the talents...not all were chosen for the- "Well done thou good and faithful servant"..
So, I lean very much to the "Make your calling and election sure.."

The call goes out...but only a few fully respond.
Just like our initial salvation. I have this picture of God..at the very beginning of time...calling the Bride ...and then myself in 1964 having ears open to actually HEAR that call that went out at the beginning of time.
Yet even though it was Him who opened my ear ( I was searching..)
The act of responding to the call was mine. My heart leaped when I heard His Voice! We recognize it as the voice of our True Love, even though we had never heard the Voice before... ( Song of Solomon) Or did we hear it subconsciously 'back in time'.

But, I am sure we will see many answers here...

I also believe if we listen , we will hear the Voice saying to each of us-
"Come up higher..."
Some do, some don't.

 

[Enoch111]

Yes, and then comes the question again of just who exactly are the elect... and how are they selected?

Christians need to get a proper understand of Divine Election (choosing of individuals by God) from the Bible itself, not from the misrepresentation of election by men. So what do we see?

1. God does indeed elect specific individuals for specific jobs or ministries. We see this throughout Scripture, the final election being that of the apostle Paul (who was originally an enemy of Christ and Christians, but then became the greatest apostle of Christ).

2. God elected Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in order to give them the Abrahamic Covenant (which would be an everlasting covenant). Isaac was elected over Ishmael, and Jacob was elected over Esau. This is because through divine foreknowledge, God knew that Isaac and Jacob would be men of faith in following Abraham, the *father* of all who believe God. On the other hand Ishmael and Esau would become the progenitors of the enemies of Israel.

3. God elected a specific nation to represent Him on earth, and to show mankind the meaning of true worship and righteousness. That nation was Israel (the twelve tribes). And even though Messiah would come out of the tribe of Judah, Israel by and large failed God. Now if divine election was for salvation, then each and every Israelite and Jew would have been saved in spite of themselves. This is the most compelling evidence that God elects no one for salvation or damnation.

4. Finally God elects (via divine foreknowledge) each one who obeys the Gospel, and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ , in order to be "conformed to the image of His Son" for eternity.

What this means is that God takes vile sinners who believe, justifies them by His grace through their faith, sanctifies them with the gift of the Holy Spirit, continues to sanctify them by the power of the indwelling Spirit, and eventually glorifies and perfects them so that they literally resemble Christ -- physically, morally, and spiritually [at which point the indwelling sin nature ("the old man") is eradicated]. This transformation takes place at the Resurrection/Rapture, which is also an instantaneous translation to Heaven.

This is summarized in Romans 8:29,30:
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

In response to the suggestion by my dear old friend @"ByGrace" I have started this thread based on these questions:

Yes, and then comes the question again of just who exactly are the elect...
and how are they selected?
Were they really preselected as some apparently believe?

I am purposely NOT trying to answer them now.

Below are answers some provided on the thread where this started

This will help you when you take time to read it through:

https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/pdf/pink_election.pdf

 

[Episkopos]

A humble person (the kind that God gives grace to) would not consider himself/herself to be part of the elect. God sees the future and knows His own. Our job is to depart from iniquity. But how far are we really able to depart from that which is offensive to God?

We need God's help every step of the way. Without Him we can do nothing.

The race is still in progress. Run to win!

 

[brakelite]

Those who are finally justified, sanctified, glorified, in other words, saved, the elect, are adopted into the family of God...children of Abraham, according to promise.(Galatians 3:29) Those who do not believe nor accept that promise, will be lost. (John 3:18)The elect are those that God has predetermined to be transformed into the image of His Son. (Colossians 3:1-12) Christ died for every man, woman, and child on the planet. (2 Cor. 5:14; Hebrews 2:9; John 4:42) This does not mean that all are experientially justified by that sacrifice, because not all accept it as being personally for them. They don't trust in that act as the basis for their salvation. (John 3:19-21) but legally, all men are justified. God gave His only begotten Son to the whole world...all are called...not only to a select few.

 

[Dave L]

Christians need to get a proper understand of Divine Election (choosing of individuals by God) from the Bible itself, not from the misrepresentation of election by men. So what do we see?

1. God does indeed elect specific individuals for specific jobs or ministries. We see this throughout Scripture, the final election being that of the apostle Paul (who was originally an enemy of Christ and Christians, but then became the greatest apostle of Christ).

2. God elected Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in order to give them the Abrahamic Covenant (which would be an everlasting covenant). Isaac was elected over Ishmael, and Jacob was elected over Esau. This is because through divine foreknowledge, God knew that Isaac and Jacob would be men of faith in following Abraham, the *father* of all who believe God. On the other hand Ishmael and Esau would become the progenitors of the enemies of Israel.

3. God elected a specific nation to represent Him on earth, and to show mankind the meaning of true worship and righteousness. That nation was Israel (the twelve tribes). And even though Messiah would come out of the tribe of Judah, Israel by and large failed God. Now if divine election was for salvation, then each and every Israelite and Jew would have been saved in spite of themselves. This is the most compelling evidence that God elects no one for salvation or damnation.

4. Finally God elects (via divine foreknowledge) each one who obeys the Gospel, and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ , in order to be "conformed to the image of His Son" for eternity.

What this means is that God takes vile sinners who believe, justifies them by His grace through their faith, sanctifies them with the gift of the Holy Spirit, continues to sanctify them by the power of the indwelling Spirit, and eventually glorifies and perfects them so that they literally resemble Christ -- physically, morally, and spiritually [at which point the indwelling sin nature ("the old man") is eradicated]. This transformation takes place at the Resurrection/Rapture, which is also an instantaneous translation to Heaven.

This is summarized in Romans 8:29,30:
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The problem with your understanding of election is that God elected believers to be holy, not because they were holy. It is beyond the capacity of the flesh to even discern Christ, much less embrace and believe in him. This all takes salvation by grace.

 

[Mjh29]

Election is easy to understand; it is the accepting of Biblical election that causes people to invent their own terms.

Election is God's sovereign choosing of those who will make up His people, not based on foreseen faith [that would be works righteousness; that the only reason God chose you and not another is because of something within you. That then makes this 'something within you' the reason for your salvation, not God. All God did in this case was look inside and see that you are better than others.] But rather, election is based on nothing more than the Will and good pleasure of God.

 

[bbyrd009]

Dont be deceived, little children

“Who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.” Hebrews 5:7-9.

For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:

and let Calvin stay in hell where he belongs imo

 

[Episkopos]

By @CoreIssue
The answer is simple. Read Romans 8.

People like skipping ahead. But the vast majority of believers are stuck in Romans 7...and are still "under the law" in respect to reality.

Listen to what Paul says...

Rom. 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

So Paul found out that the law of sin still had power OVER him. So he was still UNDER the law.

Paul is describing being still half-converted....half baked...and still UNDER THE LAW. What law? The law of sin and death.

Wait a minute...Jesus says He will set us free?! We still need, then, to go to Him for the full measure of grace that overcomes the sins of the body....we still need the law of the Spirit to overcome the law of sin IN us.

We are to put to death the sins of the body through the Spirit.

 

[Episkopos]

Our decisions for Christ are insufficient for victory over sin and death. Our minds (the law of the mind) want to obey the Lord. And we do so to a certain extent. But not to the depth required for victory over sin.

Don't believe the wolves that come into the church to steal away disciples from Christ. We must each go to God for this grace from the very Hand of God. THEN we walk as Jesus walked. THEN we are under grace. And when we are UNDER grace we are OVER sin.

Don't be fooled by vain teachings that have no power.

Romans 2:12,All who sin apart from the law will perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law."

 

[bbyrd009]

We need God's help every step of the way. Without Him we can do nothing.

most often I see this being used as an excuse as above though, even if it is true in a sense. For instance if you cannot even draw a breath without Gods help, the sentence becomes moot. Can you breathe without Gods help? I don't know, or rather won't answer, but these should be contemplated imo.

"Chosen" is mostly an opportunity for ppl to testify of themselves and thus be revealed imo

 

[Helen]

most often I see this being used as an excuse as above though, even if it is true in a sense. For instance if you cannot even draw a breath without Gods help, the sentence becomes moot. Can you breathe without Gods help? I don't know, or rather won't answer, but these should be contemplated imo.

We KNOW, that man can do lots of things...”of himself”.....but man cannot do anything of value without God, and man can do nothing that will account for anything in the kingdom , when all actions are weighed,.... without God.

 

[bbyrd009]

We KNOW, that man can do lots of things...”of himself”.....but man cannot do anything of value without God, and man can do nothing that will account for anything in the kingdom , when all actions are weighed,.... without God.

So then why not attribute things done that have value to God, rather than insisting upon the other way around? Neither the Good Samaritan nor the Roman Centurion were "converted" that I can read

 

[bbyrd009]

Imo you better believe that there are those "chosen" who do not fit your "accepted" profile in any way

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, and then comes the question again of just who exactly are the elect...
and how are they selected?

We might first see the diff in Elected and Selected, which share a synonym due to our voting habits etc, but prolly not what Scripture means by "elected" I bet. Subtle diff but likely significant

How was Colin Kaepernick elected, for instance?