The false early rapture timing doctrine

[BlessedCreator]

The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment.

The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture.
So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it
is real or not. The controversy is over the timing.

They that teach the false early timing rapture doctrine are teaching that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early.
This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe.

Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture.
In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important.
The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning
after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together.

What does this mean?
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens.
Why is this important?
Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know
exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after.

Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that
we are not left in the dark concerning these things.
The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on
him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:39
And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose
nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY.
Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day.

If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save
you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get
the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away
first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came.
They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end.
Few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days.

 

[Timtofly]

The book of Revelation tells of 4 judgments. The seals, the trumpets, the thunderings, and the vials. The "last day" has been so misused and misunderstood by all. It does not take just Satan. Satan started this deception in 2 Thessalonians 2 even before Christ was born. It is called modern science. Even the elect have been duped by Satan's deception. Satan is the man who has seen this through for near 2500 years. No human man can live that long. That is why it is Satan posing as a man.

The seal judgments are for the church, Israel, and the nations. Yes all go through tribulation. The church leaves, and the Trumpet judgments are for Israel and the Nations. The 144K witnesses and those who follow them will be saved from future tribulation after the trumpets. The next set of thunderings was sealed and there is no information about them. Then is the Second Coming of Christ. No deceptions only the nations left alive minus those dead in the thunderings. Satan will ask Christ for A truce. 3.5 days later, Satan breaks the truce. For 3.5 years Satan will try to set up an authority on earth and behead all who refuse. Then the seven vials will be poured out on the earth.

So no, this is not just a one size fits all garden variety tribulation. God judges whom He wills when He wills.

Nothing in there about false claims, hidden agendas, getting off the hook, Satan deceived saints, punished for the sins of Israel, and the whole world. Those left will still get choices, unless they are right now reprobate, and some may be so stuck in their doctrines instead of trusting God, that God will harden their heart like Pharaoh. But with each judgment there are less choices and more hardened hearts.

No one will know the specifics of each judgment within the judgments until after the judgments are already happening. However, during the rapture, mentioned by Paul, the skies will be opened and all men on earth will know exactly what is going on.

Revelation 6:
14 The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.
15 Then the earth’s kings, the rulers, the generals, the rich and the mighty — indeed, everyone, slave and free — hid himself in caves and among the rocks in the mountains,
16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us, and hide us from the face of the One sitting on the throne and from the fury of the Lamb!
17 For the Great Day of their fury has come, and who can stand?”

That is the time of the rapture. It will be like a thief, because no one knows, even the day. But when it happens all mankind both dead and alive will know it is the last day, but not the Last Day.

 

[BlessedCreator]

Sorry @Timtofly but your post is full of misinterpreted scriptures and doctrines, and not only that but it is littered with things you clearly made up. The book of Revelation is full is symbolism. I suggest reading commentaries from some of the great theologians of centuries past on BibleHub.com for the specific verses you're referencing and quoting so you can fully understand what is truly going.
The rapture is not a get out of persecution free card. Christians have been martyred since Christ rose to heaven and will continue to be in these end times. I reckon that with how many wicked followers of Satan there are and the revealing of the antichrist not too far off, that there may be a mass execution of true Christians coming, I don't know. But I do know the rapture happens on the "last day" just as the word of God, the Holy Bible tells us. The last day is not being misinterpreted as you think. Just look up commentaries on the verses I quoted with the last day in them and you'll see it is only you misinterpreting anything here.

 

[Timtofly]

The problem with great theologians of the past is that they are not alive today watching as the words of Revelation are happening right in front of us.

The past is past. Their future is here now. What was promised is being fulfilled.

You can quote any of the verses in Revelation that refute what I wrote. It would take pages and pages of post to explain each verse. I would be happy to go verse by verse if you want to post and read them.

 

[Timtofly]

You are one Satan's false apostles pretending to be a Christian to spread false doctrines and lies.

If that is all you can refute me with, you are probably one yourself, because you cannot use the truth of God's word, but can only accuse those in Christ. Normally one does not make a personal judgment call on an individual that one does not even know.

It is like a phone call spam that sounds like the truth, but just wants to rob you.

 

[Enoch111]

The ministers of Satan teach that the rapture happens before the Lord returns at the very end.

Not only is that a false accusation against genuine Christians, but it is also PURE BALONEY.

The Resurrection/Rapture does occur BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ (at least seven years before). And the Second Coming is NOT "at the very end", but ushers in the literal reign of Christ on earth when He establishes the Millennium (1000 years), followed by eternal the Kingdom of God.

 

[BlessedCreator]

Ive proven very clearly with scripture that it happens on the "last day". You can say I'm wrong but you cant prove your theory with scripture because it's not in scripture.

 

[Joseph77]

The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17.

To be honest, historically, most rapture doctrine, practices, and beliefs and teaching, comes from tradition, and not in line with any truth/ nor with any Scripture.

 

[BlessedCreator]

You just made that up Joseph..that is the rapture verse. It's really not up for debate. Why make up such a lie?

 

[rockytopva]

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. - Matthew 24:36-37

The Bible is written to tell us that there will be a great calling away and that the Lord will return with ten thousands of his saints. But it is also written not to disclose the day.

If I had to pick an end time date I would go with the scientist, Isaac Newton...

“And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half.” –Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060.”" - – Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christ’s coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However… Isaac Newton notes…

“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." –- Isaac Newton

I believe any day between today and 2060 is close. I also believe as far as date predictions Isaac Newton will be the closest.

 

[Stranger]

The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment.

The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture.
So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it
is real or not. The controversy is over the timing.

Unfortunately the ministers of Satan have taken simple to understand scripture and twisted it
to deceive unlearned Christians. The ministers of Satan teach that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end.
They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early.
This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe.

Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture.
In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important.
The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning
after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together.

What does this mean?
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens.
Why is this important?
Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know
exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after.

Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that
we are not left in the dark concerning these things.
The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on
him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:39
And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose
nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY.
Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day.

The reason that Satan's ministers have decided to teach this false timing rapture doctrine is because
scripture tells us the Antichrist must first come before the end.
If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save
you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get
the false messiah/Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away
first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came.
They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end.
Few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days.

There are several views of the Rapture, Tribulation, and End Time Events period. None of which are a determining factor of whether or not one is a Christian, much less a 'minister of satan'.

To brand one a minister of satan for not agreeing with your interpretation of the timing of the Rapture, removes any interest in me of what you have to say. Have your view of the Rapture and support it. But in this area you will have to give some room.

Stranger

 

[Joseph77]

Bearing false witness is not looking good on you, at all, again.

Did you read much of just this forum?

See how most all the posts about the rapture theory/ "rapture doctrine"./ are exactly as I posted: from tradition ?

You just made that up Joseph..that is the rapture verse. It's really not up for debate. Why make up such a lie?

 

[Timtofly]

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. - Matthew 24:36-37

The Bible is written to tell us that there will be a great calling away and that the Lord will return with ten thousands of his saints. But it is also written not to disclose the day.

If I had to pick an end time date I would go with the scientist, Isaac Newton...

“And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half.” –Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060.”" - – Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christ’s coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However… Isaac Newton notes…

“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." –- Isaac Newton

I believe any day between today and 2060 is close. I also believe as far as date predictions Isaac Newton will be the closest.

Newton's math was off by 30 years.

Hmmm. No one thinks Adam only lived in the Garden for 30 years. If you move Adam back 30 years, instead of counting 130 after the fall, Newton would be dead right.

Subtract 7 or 10 years from 2030, and bingo.

This is it folks.

You can accept that an unheard of event is not happening now, right now, with the covid19.

How many unprecedented events does one need to go through before the Son dawns on them?

 

[rockytopva]

Newton's math was off by 30 years.

Hmmm. No one thinks Adam only lived in the Garden for 30 years. If you move Adam back 30 years, instead of counting 130 after the fall, Newton would be dead right.

Which is why I use the word “closest” and not “right on.”

 

[Jay Ross]

If I had to pick an end time date I would go with the scientist, Isaac Newton...

“And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half.” –Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060.”" - – Isaac Newton

Newton's understanding of Daniel 12:7 does not fit the context of the time period which was answering the question from the first angel of the second angel of, "How long shall the fulfillment of {all} these wonders be?"

The Hebrew word used in verse 12:7 and translated into English as "times," is best understood to have the meaning of a "season," such that three and a half seasons will pass between Daniel's time and the finishing of all the "wonders" that Daniel was told about will be completed.

This means that the span of the "time, times and a half of a time" is closer to three and a half ages which is around 3,500 years in duration.

If Daniel lived around 500 BC then the time period being pointed to will be around the year 3,000 AD which is still around 1,000 years into our future.

We also know that the visitation of the sins of the fathers on their descendant children would be for a period of two ages and as of yet, the redemption of Israel has not occurred and the Summer Season of the Harvest of the souls from humanity has not begun yet, we cannot expect the end of the Age of the Ages to happen in our near future or that the second Advent will occur shortly.

Matthew 24:32 gives a clue as to when the end of this present season will end and the summer harvest season of souls will begin.

Shalom

 

[Timtofly]

Newton's understanding of Daniel 12:7 does not fit the context of the time period which was answering the question from the first angel of the second angel of, "How long shall the fulfillment of {all} these wonders be?"

The Hebrew word used in verse 12:7 and translated into English as "times," is best understood to have the meaning of a "season," such that three and a half seasons will pass between Daniel's time and the finishing of all the "wonders" that Daniel was told about will be completed.

This means that the span of the "time, times and a half of a time" is closer to three and a half ages which is around 3,500 years in duration.

If Daniel lived around 500 BC then the time period being pointed to will be around the year 3,000 AD which is still around 1,000 years into our future.

We also know that the visitation of the sins of the fathers on their descendant children would be for a period of two ages and as of yet, the redemption of Israel has not occurred and the Summer Season of the Harvest of the souls from humanity has not begun yet, we cannot expect the end of the Age of the Ages to happen in our near future or that the second Advent will occur shortly.

Matthew 24:32 gives a clue as to when the end of this present season will end and the summer harvest season of souls will begin.

Shalom

There is no issue. Now is the end of the church. That last 1000 till 3030, is the millennium reign of Christ with both the church, Israel, and the nations. Satan will be bound until 3030. Minus the time that has been shortened of this 10 years left till 2030.

We should expect the soon return of Christ at all times. 5 foolish virgins, and 5 prepared virgins. Guess who did not get there on time.

 

[Jay Ross]

There is no issue. Now is the end of the church. That last 1000 till 3030, is the millennium reign of Christ with both the church, Israel, and the nations. Satan will be bound until 3030. Minus the time that has been shortened of this 10 years left till 2030.

We should expect the soon return of Christ at all times. 5 foolish virgins, and 5 prepared virgins. Guess who did not get there on time.

Really, your understanding is based on other people's flawed understandings and their understandings do not stack up at all with scripture.

Shalom