The False One Who Makes the 7 Year Covenant of Daniel 9

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,466
2,500
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Here I will show you the line upon line flow description from the Book of Daniel about the coming false one which Lord Jesus pointed to in His Olivet discourse. In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Jesus warned about the placing of the "abomination of desolation". Daniel 11 DEFINES what that is, and I'm going to show those interested...

Dan 11:21-39
21 And in his estate shall stand up
a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

After the raiser of taxes has ended, this "vile person" will stand up in his estate. He will come to power using peace and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. This is pointing to his becoming king in Jerusalem.

22 And
with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

Do you recall that Daniel 9:26 said the end will be with a flood? The idea about waters as a flood out of the serpent's mouth is also used in Revelation 12:15-16, which is about Satan's final deception for the end of this present world, i.e., great tribulation timing.

This "prince of the covenant" will be the one he makes the following "league" with...

23 And after
the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

This "small people" also represents those in Jerusalem he will make that "league" with, a small group in power in Jerusalem that will ally with him. That "league" is the "covenant" made in Daniel 9:27. These events by this "vile person" defines those events of Daniel 9:27.

24
He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.

Some try to say this "vile person" prophecy was fulfilled in 165 B.C. by Antiochus Epiphanes. The reality is that Antiochus took Jerusalem by force with an army. But this one here takes the kingdom using peace. This "vile person" has not come yet today. This prophecy is even pointing to how this "vile person" will peacefully be setup as king by leaders in Jerusalem.

25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him.
26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many shall fall down slain.
27 And both these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper:
for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.

28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and
his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

After the stir with the king of the south, this "vile person" shall return to Jerusalem, and his heart will be against the "holy covenant". What covenant? The old covenant. Some think this was already history, but it is actually for the end of this world, as the previous verse hinted at.

In order for the "abomination of desolation" idol prophecy to occur, a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem must be present with animal sacrifices going on. This is the type of "holy covenant" going on at this point.

29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return,
and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

That "vile person" will have indignation against the "holy covenant", revealing what? It reveals that all along he is against the old covenant worship, but only allows it for a time for political reasons.

Not only does he hate that holy covenant, but so does that false Jew leadership that is working with him.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and
they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

There it is, the prophecy given in the Daniel 9:27 verse that the false one would come and make a covenant for "one week" (symbolic for 7 years), and then in the middle of the "one week" will end the daily sacrifices, and instead place an abomination idol inside the temple in false worship instead.

That is the "abomination of desolation" event Lord Jesus warned for the very end of this world in Jerusalem. Jesus told His servants in Judea at that time of the END to flee Judea, and for those in Christ in the countries to not enter into Jerusalem at that time (Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21). Those Signs Jesus gave are the Seals of Revelation 6 for the end of this world.

So make no mistake, the Daniel 9:27 prophecy is hard-linked to the prophecy in Daniel 11 about the "vile person" and the placing of the "abomination that maketh desolate". That is why Daniel 11:31 tells us that event will "... pollute the sanctuary of strength...". The desolation is about 'spiritual' desolation inside the temple with the setting up of an idol abomination, i.e., the "image of the beast" of Rev.13.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white,
even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

That above is about us during that final "great tribulation". Some of us will be delivered up for Christ to give a Witness.

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and
he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

That exalting himself above every god is what Apostle Paul was warning about in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, about the "man of sin". That is the beast king of Revelation 17, the one that will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go into perdition.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.


Why would "the God of his fathers" be mentioned there about that coming false one? It will because the prophecy in the prophets about Messiah requires that he descend from the tribe of Judah to be king over the Jews. He will be a fake though, those who set him up as king will make that claim of his birthright.

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
KJV


Antiochus IV in 165 did that very thing in Jerusalem with setting up an altar inside the temple and placing an idol to Zeus in false worship, demanding that all bow to it. For the end of this world, for this event in Daniel 11, it will be the false-Messiah setting up the "image of the beast" for the whole world to worship.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,383
6,295
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
In as much as some of your prophetic understanding may be accurate regarding a certain subject, your dispensational eye glasses throw your otherwise well meaning information into a whirlpool of deceptive error, namely, that there even is a literal 7 year time of tribulation to come, and that the Antichrist of whom you speak of is not too come, but is here, and has been here for over 1000 years. Whoever invented dispensationalism was listening to devils, because that doctrine effectively camouflages the true Antichrist under a guise of sanctimonious religiosity which has little or no foundation in scripture. The reformers who would have scoffed at such theories as advocated by the more extreme of dispensationalists, that Israel was saved by the law and Christians by grace etc, had it absolutely correct. The Antichrist was in their midst, and had already fulfilled the prophecies of Paul regarding claims to divinity, had already fulfilled the prophecies of Daniel and John by completing the prophetic initial life span of 1260 days, 42 months, and times, time, and half a time...1260 years.
There is no 7 year gap to be fulfilled in prophecy. Daniel 9 pointed to the Messiah. Not the Antichrist. Although there would be many unbelieving Jews rejoicing at your interpretation. Jesuits also.
 
  • Like
Reactions: covenantee

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2020
8,284
581
113
Mount Morris
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In as much as some of your prophetic understanding may be accurate regarding a certain subject, your dispensational eye glasses throw your otherwise well meaning information into a whirlpool of deceptive error, namely, that there even is a literal 7 year time of tribulation to come, and that the Antichrist of whom you speak of is not too come, but is here, and has been here for over 1000 years. Whoever invented dispensationalism was listening to devils, because that doctrine effectively camouflages the true Antichrist under a guise of sanctimonious religiosity which has little or no foundation in scripture. The reformers who would have scoffed at such theories as advocated by the more extreme of dispensationalists, that Israel was saved by the law and Christians by grace etc, had it absolutely correct. The Antichrist was in their midst, and had already fulfilled the prophecies of Paul regarding claims to divinity, had already fulfilled the prophecies of Daniel and John by completing the prophetic initial life span of 1260 days, 42 months, and times, time, and half a time...1260 years.
There is no 7 year gap to be fulfilled in prophecy. Daniel 9 pointed to the Messiah. Not the Antichrist. Although there would be many unbelieving Jews rejoicing at your interpretation. Jesuits also.
There were robots 1,000 years ago?
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Daniel 9 pointed to the Messiah. Not the Antichrist. Although there would be many unbelieving Jews rejoicing at your interpretation. Jesuits also.
Right on!

Daniel 9:27 is pointing to the Anti-Christ/Satan and not the Messiah as is suggested in the quote above.

It is understanding the context that is important to understand. Too many Christians want to put/place Christ into many prophecies where the key figure in the Prophecy is Satan or one of his cohorts, instead.
 

Ronald D Milam

Active Member
Jan 12, 2022
964
128
43
59
Clanton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Here I will show you the line upon line flow description from the Book of Daniel about the coming false one which Lord Jesus pointed to in His Olivet discourse. In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Jesus warned about the placing of the "abomination of desolation". Daniel 11 DEFINES what that is, and I'm going to show those interested...

Dan 11:21-39
21 And in his estate shall stand up
a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
Well, for starters you start off in the wrong verse, Dan. 11:21-33-34 is about Antiochus Epiphanes not the coming Anti-Christ. Dan. 11:36-45 is about the coming Anti-Christ/Little Horn/Beast.

I did an Exegesis on Dan. 11 & 12 in 2018, with every verse an in depth look at all of the players and the Palace Intrigue associated with such things. I will we back up a coupe of verses before Dan. 11:21 to give a flow of info on how Antiochus became the king. By the way, when you see {{{ and }}} that is me adding something specifically in response to your points, the rest is simply my old Blog/Exegesis from 2018.

Daniel 11:17-35

17 He shall also set his face to enter with the strength of his whole kingdom, and upright ones with him; thus shall he do: and he shall give him the daughter of women, corrupting her: but she shall not stand on his side, neither be for him.

Antiochus III (not IV) gave his daughter Cleopatra to Ptolemy V for a wife, but she ended up siding with Ptolemy V over her father. Blood is not always thicker than water it seems !!

18 After this shall he turn his face unto the isles, and shall take many: but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offered by him to cease; without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn upon him. 19 Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found.

Antiochus III ventured to take more lands, against the will of the Romans. He angered his former ally Macedonian king Philip V also, and was eventually killed in his homeland while plundering a pagan temple.

20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

Antiochus III's son Seleucus IV became king and had to raise taxes because Rome was forcing him to pay for all his fathers wars, he was soon poisoned to death it seems.

21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Antiochus IV then became king, he is called a vile person. He became king via a series of maneuvers which included flattering the king of Pergamum to gain his allegiance and by the death of the young heir to the throne.

22

Do you recall that Daniel 9:26 said the end will be with a flood? The idea about waters as a flood out of the serpent's mouth is also used in Revelation 12:15-16, which is about Satan's final deception for the end of this present world, i.e., great tribulation timing.

22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

The High Priest, Onias III (prince of the covenant) was replaced via a conspiracy involving the high priests brother Jason and Antiochus Epiphanes but his brother was also double crossed when another priest bribed Antiochus Epiphanes with even more money Jason's real name was Yeshua, he favored the Hellenization of Jerusalem/Israel, whereas his brother Onias III was a pious man of God who was put to death. Jason welcomed Antiochus into the temple of God to make a sacrifice unto Zeus. When he mandated the Hellenization of all Jews this led to the Maccabean Revolt.

{{{ The Flood in Dan. 9:26 is the 70 AD Roman Army wiping out Jerusalem. In Rev. 12 another flood will be sent out but God will protect those Jews from the Anti-Christs army via the earth, like God protected Israel as they fled in Egypt with a wall of fire, and via the opening of the Red Sea. }}}

23

This "small people" also represents those in Jerusalem he will make that "league" with, a small group in power in Jerusalem that will ally with him. That "league" is the "covenant" made in Daniel 9:27. These events by this "vile person" defines those events of Daniel 9:27.

23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

Antiochus Epiphanes wanted to conquer Egypt in a bad way. He took a "small army" down to Egypt feigning to be the protector of Ptolemy VI who was his nephew. He was of course trying to deceive them whereas he could eventually conquer them via craftiness. This was seemingly his master-plan.

{{{ Again, this has nothing to do with the End Times, this is about Antiochus Epiphanes, not the Anti-Christ who is indeed end times, but is not seen in Dan. 11 until verse 36. Thus this also has nothing to do with Dan. 9:27 either. The Covenant is an Agreement, IMHO, Israel will simply join the E.U. after the Gog and Magog war. Did you know Israel and THE MANY (Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Libya, Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia) already have "Agreements" with the E.U. in the form of the "European Neighborhood Policy?" It can be seen on Wikipedia, and other places. The E.U. give 15 billion Euros (money) out to these Nations between 2014 and 2020. The first Agreements ran from 2007 to 2013, both we 7 year cycles !! Hmm. }}}

24

Some try to say this "vile person" prophecy was fulfilled in 165 B.C. by Antiochus Epiphanes. The reality is that Antiochus took Jerusalem by force with an army. But this one here takes the kingdom using peace. This "vile person" has not come yet today. This prophecy is even pointing to how this "vile person" will peacefully be setup as king by leaders in Jerusalem.

24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.

Antiochus Epiphanes gained Egypt's trust and loyalty via spreading his bounty from his wars amongst the public. He visited Egyptian strongholds to get a better understanding on how to conquer them, he was quite cunning, just like the coming Anti-Christ will be.

{{{ You are in the wrong Nation brother, and was last verse also, this is how we go down wrong paths. This is well know history. Remember in verses 40-43 the Anti-Christ also conquers Egypt/North Africa. This verse is not about Jerusalem/Israel, but about Egypt. }}}

25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him.
26

After the stir with the king of the south, this "vile person" shall return to Jerusalem, and his heart will be against the "holy covenant". What covenant? The old covenant. Some think this was already history, but it is actually for the end of this world, as the previous verse hinted at.

In order for the "abomination of desolation" idol prophecy to occur, a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem must be present with animal sacrifices going on. This is the type of "holy covenant" going on at this point.

25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him. 26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many shall fall down slain.

This is the Sixth Syrian War, (the last of the lot). This was Antiochus Epiphanes against Ptolemy VI. Antiochus Epiphanes attacked Egypt and prevailed over them and many of the Egyptians stood by him and betrayed Ptolemy VI. He was a corrupter of people no doubt, he knew how to divide and conquer.
271655_e3a66f9b462fe2bb5eaeddcc76f2ce6a.jpg.e4845b1c50061ec4d86ea23f26aed9b6 (2).jpg
 

Ronald D Milam

Active Member
Jan 12, 2022
964
128
43
59
Clanton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
CONTINUED..........

27 And both of these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.

Watching Antiochus Epiphanes operate must have been enthralling back in the day. He pretended to support Ptolemy VI his blood kin, and he also pretended to have his best interest in mind, but the truth is he was pitting him against his own brother Ptolemy VII the whole time. Ptolemy VII was of course eventually made king of Egypt by the Alexandrian's who did not trust Ptolemy VI any longer.

28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

Antiochus Epiphanes returned north it seems because of a rumor that he had died. That rumor seemingly caused a war to breakout in Jerusalem. Antiochus Epiphanes plundered the temple of God, killed many people, then journeyed north to Antioch. (his homeland)

29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

That "vile person" will have indignation against the "holy covenant", revealing what? It reveals that all along he is against the old covenant worship, but only allows it for a time for political reasons.

Not only does he hate that holy covenant, but so does that false Jew leadership that is working with him.



29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexandria. The Egyptians however sent a message to Rome asking for help. Three Roman senators were sent by ship to inform Antiochus Epiphanes that he was not to invade Egypt and to demand that he retreat immediately. This of course made him angry and Antiochus seems to have taken it out on the Jewish believers. He killed many of them but allowed the Hellenistic Jews to live as long as they forsook the Holy Covenant !! He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in many of his mannerisms. Jason also seems to be a forerunner of the False Prophet. He worked with the intelligence of those Jews who preferred the Hellenistic lifestyles of course. In other words the Hellenistic Jews ratted on those Jews who remained faithful, thus Antiochus wound up killing 60,000 people, some say up to 90,000 were killed.

{{{ There was a temple in Jerusalem whilst Antiochus was alive and ruling over Israel. There may or may not be a temple during the end times, I think there will be because of Matt. 24:15-17 via the coming AoD. But the Sacrifice that is taken away is not an animal Sacrifice, the False Prophet or Jewish High Priest in league with the Anti-Christ will forbid Jesus Worship !! Remember, the Jews repent just before the DOTL as Zech. 13:8-9 and Zech. 14:1-2 shows us. Thus they naturally will want to worship Jesus their Messiah. }}}

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

There it is, the prophecy given in the Daniel 9:27 verse that the false one would come and make a covenant for "one week" (symbolic for 7 years), and then in the middle of the "one week" will end the daily sacrifices, and instead place an abomination idol inside the temple in false worship instead.

That is the "abomination of desolation" event Lord Jesus warned for the very end of this world in Jerusalem. Jesus told His servants in Judea at that time of the END to flee Judea, and for those in Christ in the countries to not enter into Jerusalem at that time (Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21). Those Signs Jesus gave are the Seals of Revelation 6 for the end of this world.

So make no mistake, the Daniel 9:27 prophecy is hard-linked to the prophecy in Daniel 11 about the "vile person" and the placing of the "abomination that maketh desolate". That is why Daniel 11:31 tells us that event will "... pollute the sanctuary of strength...". The desolation is about 'spiritual' desolation inside the temple with the setting up of an idol abomination, i.e., the "image of the beast" of Rev.13.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. 32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Antiochus Epiphanes defiled the temple of God, stopped the daily sacrifices and even built a pagan alter unto Zeus and sacrificed pigs on it. This was an Abomination unto God, but its not the Abomination that Jesus and Daniel is speaking about of course. This desecrated the temple while it was there, but as we can see, Antiochus Epiphanes served Zeus, thus he can not be the Willful King of verse 36 as many think, because he served no gods. This of course created a schism so to speak amongst the Jewish peoples, which is what Antiochus was good at, divide and conquer tactics. In the end many Jews forsook their God and many refused to do so via the Maccabean Revolt, but alas, they paid the price with their lives. This of course is a likeness unto the coming end time events in many ways.
 
Last edited:

Ronald D Milam

Active Member
Jan 12, 2022
964
128
43
59
Clanton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

That above is about us during that final "great tribulation". Some of us will be delivered up for Christ to give a Witness.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. 34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

TRANSITION PERIOD

I think this three verse passage covers a 2000 some odd year stretch of time. It reaches from the Maccabean Revolt all the way unto the end times via verse 35 where it states even to the time of the end, which is a yet to be appointed time !! We see in verse 33 that many will understand but fall by the sword, flame, captivity, many days, this sounds like the early church Saints also, they understood, and thus Rome killed them in many violent ways, and when they fall they will be helped with a little help (Holy Spirit), but many will believe Satan's lies (flatteries). Verse 35 keeps up the 2000 year journey unto the end times, many will fall, be purged, made white (Jesus' blood) EVEN TO THE END TIMES !! Which is yet for a future time to be APPOINTED !! Then we see the Anti-Christ starting in verse 36. I think verse 33 is the Maccabean Revolt, and maybe the early Christian Church, then verses 34 and 35 transition via the whole 2000 year Church Age unto the end time !! The transition is a little convoluting and confuses many, some think Antiochus Epiphanes is the character that runs from Daniel 11:21 all the way to verse 45, some think its the Anti-Christ character that runs from verse 21 all the way to verse 45. Both sides seemingly can't see the transition that I see in verses 33-35. Its there, we just have to look a little deeper, it is thus deemed by me to be the transition period between the two Greek kings/characters in Daniel 11:21-45.

SEGMENTED HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVES

It seems we need to look at this prophecy here in segments. A historical segment that has already been fulfilled (Dan. 11:1-35) and an eschatological segment where the prophecy has yet to be fulfilled. Of course when Daniel received this prophetic uttering over 2500 years ago none of it had basically come to pass, now all of it has come to pass except for Dan. 11:36-45 and Dan. 12:1-12. So, it seems after verse 35 we can say that we fast forward so to speak into eschatology. Although you might say we are at the utter end of verse 35, for the most part when the Rapture hits we will be at verse 36 via the Tribulation period.
We get the historical lessons via the prophecy of all the Grecian Kingdoms and the Syrian Wars which are detailed unto the nth degree, then Rome became the Fourth Beast and Greece seems to have faded into the background so to speak until the last King/Little Horn arrives, which comes from their lineage, we know this via Daniel chapter 8. We are told of this end time king starting in verse 36 and running unto the end of Daniel chapter 12. Notice in verses 34 and 35 above, it speaks of the time of the end as a yet to be appointed time and states that basically, from Antiochus Epiphanes on, there will continue to be persecution and troubles and many who fall will be helped but others will heed the lies of the wicked one or his (flatteries). Some who understand will fall or be tried, and PURGED !! Think of Paul, Peter and the Saints of the Church Age....to make them WHITE (pure), even to the END OF TIME !! Very, very exciting stuff !! Amen !!

{{{ So, in short you are not seeing this very clearly, you are conflating two different periods brother. }}}
 
Last edited:

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,466
2,500
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well, for starters you start off in the wrong verse, Dan. 11:21-33-34 is about Antiochus Epiphanes not the coming Anti-Christ. Dan. 11:36-45 is about the coming Anti-Christ/Little Horn/Beast.
Brethren in Christ, I DO NOT RECOMMEND LISTENING TO THIS FELLOW ABOVE.

The Daniel 11 "vile person" is strictly about the FINAL ANTICHRIST at the very end of this world. The Biblical proof of this is simple...

In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Lord Jesus Christ pointed to the Daniel 11 event about the "abomination of desolation". That event is described in Daniel 11 of what the "vile person" who comes to power in Jerusalem will do at the VERY END OF THIS WORLD. It is NOT about Antiochus Epiphanese who captured Jerusalem with an army back in 170-165 B.C.

When does one think Lord Jesus warned about the "abomination of desolation" in His Olivet discourse speech? Approximately around 28 A.D. (Jesus' birth was 4 B.C. per Bullinger's and Ussher's chronologies).

Now when... did Antiochus Epiphanes conquer Jerusalem??? Approximately 170 B.C. (per Jewish historian Josephus).

Doesn't ANYONE see a problem with claiming Lord Jesus was NOT pointing to the "vile person" in Daniel 11 around 200 years AFTER... Antiochus Epiphanes HAD ALREADY BEEN DEAD??? And HOW can someone CLAIM the Daniel 11 Scripture about the "vile person" has already been fulfilled when Lord Jesus quoted about it in His Olivet discourse of SIGNS for the END of this world?

You see brethren, poor Ronald in his pushing doctrines from men against what Jesus said in His Olivet discourse has stopped listening to the simplicity of Lord Jesus Christ in His Word. The SIGNS Lord Jesus was giving in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13 are the same SIGNS given to His Church in Revelation 6 about the SEALS! Will Ronald then begin to say the SEALS of Revelation 6 are all HISTORY, even though those SEALS cover the future coming of Lord Jesus??? I'm only saying this to show how listening to men's doctrines can get one into trouble, and way away from the simplicity that is God's Word.



I'll be glad when some brethren here learn to THINK FOR THEMSELVES instead of just parroting what their preacher said, or what some commentary they read said.
 
Last edited:

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,466
2,500
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Also concerning Antiochus Epiphanes that took Jerusalem with an army back in 170-165 B.C. --

The Daniel 11 Scripture about the "vile person" (Antichrist for the end) shows he will come to power using PEACE, not... an army!

Antiochus took Jerusalem NOT using peace, but using an army!

So even though the "vile person" prophecy LOOKS LIKE IT IS ABOUT ANTIOCHUS EPIPHANES, it is NOT.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truth7t7

Ronald D Milam

Active Member
Jan 12, 2022
964
128
43
59
Clanton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Brethren in Christ, I DO NOT RECOMMEND LISTENING TO THIS FELLOW ABOVE.

The Daniel 11 "vile person" is strictly about the FINAL ANTICHRIST at the very end of this world. The Biblical proof of this is simple...
Sir, I was actually called unto Prophecy over 37 years ago. You can't even understand and rightly divide the scriptures. Dan. 11:21-34 is about Antiochus, Dan. 11:36-45 is about the End Time Anti-Christ. If you would stop and read instead of copy and pasting other men's ideas we have heard before then you might could see why NEITHER the Anti-Christ not Antiochus could be seen from verses 21-45. They are two different people.

In verses 29-30 we see Antiochus RETURNS to Egypt but IT SHALL NOT BE AS THE FORMER, meaning he is not allowed to Conquer Egypt again, read your history books, a Roman Senator drew a circle around Antiochus dared Antiochus to leave the circle (I will post it BELOW), OR AS THE LATTER, which is speaking about when the future Anti-Christ does Conquer Egypt in verses 40-43 go read it !!

29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30 For the ships of Chittim(Rome) shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexandria. The Egyptians however sent a message to Rome asking for help. Three Roman senators were sent by ship to inform Antiochus Epiphanes that he was not to invade Egypt and to demand that he retreat immediately. This of course made him angry and Antiochus seems to have taken it out on the Jewish believers. He killed many of them but allowed the Hellenistic Jews to live as long as they forsook the Holy Covenant !! He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in many of his mannerisms. Jason also seems to be a forerunner of the False Prophet.

SO.........If verses 21-45 is the SAME MAN, how does he conquer Egypt in these verses below? OR if verses 21-45 is the SAME MAN how could the Anti-Christ be told not to conquer Egypt in verses 29 and 30? Psstt, it is not the SAME MAN !! Verses 21-34 is about Antiochus, verses 36-45 is about the Anti-Christ.

Dan. 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

So, in verses 29-30 we see Rome forbid Antiochus from ever conquering Egypt again, but the Anti-Christ conquers Egypt in verses 42 and 43. Now, let me show you who verses 29 and 30 are about.

WIKI BELOW

Gaius Popillius Laenas (fl. 172–158 BC)
twice served as one of the two consuls of the Roman Republic, in 172 and 158 BC.

He was sent as an envoy to prevent a war between Antiochus IV Epiphanes of the Seleucid Empire and Ptolemaic Egypt.
On being confronted with the Roman demands that he abort his attack on Alexandria, Antiochus played for time; Popillius Laenas is supposed to have drawn a circle around the king in the sand with his cane, and ordered him not to move out of it until a firm answer had been given. The Syrians withdrew. According to Livy:

After receiving the submission of the inhabitants of Memphis and of the rest of the Egyptian people, some submitting voluntarily, others under threats, [Antiochus] marched by easy stages towards Alexandria. After crossing the river at Eleusis, about four miles from Alexandria, he was met by the Roman commissioners, to whom he gave a friendly greeting and held out his hand to Popilius. Popilius, however, placed in his hand the tablets on which was written the decree of the senate and told him first of all to read it. After reading it through, he said he would call his friends into council and consider what he ought to do. Popilius, stern and imperious as ever, drew a circle round the king with the stick he was carrying and said, "Before you step out of that circle give me a reply to lay before the senate." For a few moments he hesitated, astounded at such a peremptory order, and at last replied, "I will do what the senate thinks right." Not till then did Popilius extend his hand to the king as to a friend and ally. Antiochus evacuated Egypt at the appointed date, and the commissioners exerted their authority to establish a lasting concord between the brothers, as they had as yet hardly made peace with each other. Ab Urbe Condita, xlv.12.
 
Last edited:

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,466
2,500
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sir, I was actually called unto Prophecy over 37 years ago. You can't even understand and rightly divide the scriptures. Dan. 11:21-34 is about Antiochus, Dan. 11:36-45 is about the End Time Anti-Christ. If you would stop and read instead of copy and pasting other men's ideas we have heard before then you might could see why NEITHER the Anti-Christ not Antiochus could be seen from verses 21-45. They are two different people.

In verses 29-30 we see Antiochus RETURNS to Egypt but IT SHALL NOT BE AS THE FORMER, meaning he is not allowed to Conquer Egypt again, read your history books, a Roman Senator drew a circle around Antiochus dared Antiochus to leave the circle (I will post it BELOW), OR AS THE LATTER, which is speaking about when the future Anti-Christ does Conquer Egypt in verses 40-43 go read it !!

29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30 For the ships of Chittim(Rome) shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexandria. The Egyptians however sent a message to Rome asking for help. Three Roman senators were sent by ship to inform Antiochus Epiphanes that he was not to invade Egypt and to demand that he retreat immediately. This of course made him angry and Antiochus seems to have taken it out on the Jewish believers. He killed many of them but allowed the Hellenistic Jews to live as long as they forsook the Holy Covenant !! He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in many of his mannerisms. Jason also seems to be a forerunner of the False Prophet.

SO.........If verses 21-45 is the SAME MAN, how does he conquer Egypt in these verses below? OR if verses 21-45 is the SAME MAN how could the Anti-Christ be told not to conquer Egypt in verses 29 and 30? Psstt, it is not the SAME MAN !! Verses 21-34 is about Antiochus, verses 36-45 is about the Anti-Christ.

Dan. 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

So, in verses 29-30 we see Rome forbid Antiochus from ever conquering Egypt again, but the Anti-Christ conquers Egypt in verses 42 and 43. Now, let me show you who verses 29 and 30 are about.

WIKI BELOW

Gaius Popillius Laenas (fl. 172–158 BC)
twice served as one of the two consuls of the Roman Republic, in 172 and 158 BC.

He was sent as an envoy to prevent a war between Antiochus IV Epiphanes of the Seleucid Empire and Ptolemaic Egypt.
On being confronted with the Roman demands that he abort his attack on Alexandria, Antiochus played for time; Popillius Laenas is supposed to have drawn a circle around the king in the sand with his cane, and ordered him not to move out of it until a firm answer had been given. The Syrians withdrew. According to Livy:

After receiving the submission of the inhabitants of Memphis and of the rest of the Egyptian people, some submitting voluntarily, others under threats, [Antiochus] marched by easy stages towards Alexandria. After crossing the river at Eleusis, about four miles from Alexandria, he was met by the Roman commissioners, to whom he gave a friendly greeting and held out his hand to Popilius. Popilius, however, placed in his hand the tablets on which was written the decree of the senate and told him first of all to read it. After reading it through, he said he would call his friends into council and consider what he ought to do. Popilius, stern and imperious as ever, drew a circle round the king with the stick he was carrying and said, "Before you step out of that circle give me a reply to lay before the senate." For a few moments he hesitated, astounded at such a peremptory order, and at last replied, "I will do what the senate thinks right." Not till then did Popilius extend his hand to the king as to a friend and ally. Antiochus evacuated Egypt at the appointed date, and the commissioners exerted their authority to establish a lasting concord between the brothers, as they had as yet hardly made peace with each other. Ab Urbe Condita, xlv.12.

Sorry, but your ego has overinflated your ability to 'stay' in God's Word as written. And you want to try and claim MEN'S CREDENTIALS and LONGEVITY of expressing your grand EGO??!?

The "vile person" of Daniel 11:31 being responsible for setting up the future "abomination of desolation" IDOL in a new stone temple in Jerusalem for the END is what Lord Jesus was pointing to in His Olivet discourse SIGNS (Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14).

Antiochus HAD LONG BEEN DEAD when Lord Jesus gave the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from the Book of Daniel!
 

Ronald D Milam

Active Member
Jan 12, 2022
964
128
43
59
Clanton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sorry, but your ego has overinflated your ability to 'stay' in God's Word as written. And you want to try and claim MEN'S CREDENTIALS and LONGEVITY of expressing your grand EGO??!?

The "vile person" of Daniel 11:31 being responsible for setting up the future "abomination of desolation" IDOL in a new stone temple in Jerusalem for the END is what Lord Jesus was pointing to in His Olivet discourse SIGNS (Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14).

Antiochus HAD LONG BEEN DEAD when Lord Jesus gave the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from the Book of Daniel!
You are really real awful at Prophecy, not called unto it. No one stated Antiochus does anything. I stated (open your eyes) that Antiochus in verses 21-34 is not END TIMES. You tried to say Verses 21-45 is the Anti-Christ that is FALSE. I destroyed all your points sir.
 

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
11,696
5,575
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Daniel 9:27 is pointing to the Anti-Christ/Satan and not the Messiah as is suggested in the quote above.

It is understanding the context that is important to understand. Too many Christians want to put/place Christ into many prophecies where the key figure in the Prophecy is Satan or one of his cohorts, instead.
You are confusing the "one who makes desolate" with "Messiah"--that is the "prince" of this world, with the "Messiah the Prince."
 

Ronald D Milam

Active Member
Jan 12, 2022
964
128
43
59
Clanton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You are confusing the "one who makes desolate" with "Messiah"--that is the "prince" of this world, with the "Messiah the Prince."
He is right, Dan. 9:27 is the Anti-Christ. Jesus/God doesn't make one week covenants, they make perpetual covenants. The Daniel 70 weeks Prophecy has THREE MARKERS, but the Prophecy is about Jerusalem and her people or Israel, not 1.) The Wall 2.) The Messiah's Death 3.) or the end time The Anti-Christs Agreement per se. These are Markers but the Prophesy is about Israel repenting before the 70 weeks judgment can come to pass. And it is three separate prophesies instead of one for a reason.
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
You are confusing the "one who makes desolate" with "Messiah"--that is the "prince" of this world, with the "Messiah the Prince."

Ah Scotta, I am not the one who is confused. Satan is very good at hiding himself in full view and you are helping Satan to do so with your comment.

Christ did not come to make a covenant with the peoples of the earth. He came to refurbish the Salvation Covenant, that God has had from the beginning of time, by establishing a new process whereby people could become redeemed through Christ Himself with His death on the Cross, which is foretold to us in Daniel 9:24b and 26a, as a once and for all sacrifice for all of mankind if people are willing to accept His sacrifice for their iniquities before their physical death.

Jesus alluded to this when he taught this: -

Matt 13:47-52: - The Parable of the Dragnet
47 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. 49 So it will be at the completion of the ages. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."​
51 Jesus said to them, "Have you understood all these things?"​
They said to Him, "Yes, Lord."​
52 Then He said to them, "Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things refurbished and yet ancient."​

Christ will make like new again that which is from ancient times. That is our salvation from the consequences of the fall.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truth7t7

Ronald D Milam

Active Member
Jan 12, 2022
964
128
43
59
Clanton
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ah Scotta, I am not the one who is confused. Satan is very good at hiding himself in full view and you are helping Satan to do so with your comment.
I wouldn't go that far, Satan confused Peter who cut off an ear and he walked with Jesus, he deceived David and he was a man after God's own heart. These guys are not called unto Prophecy in most cases, they get something I dismissed in the 80s, or 90s it "sounds good and Satan has a way of making things seem to fit" so they run with it but never do the grunt work needed to actually be teachers of Prophecy. I mean, with research and prayer we can overcome these things (try the spirits to see if they be of God). Instead they get excited about some RCC/Pope/the 10 vagabond nations or an Islamic Horde, when both are head-fakes by Satan. We are shown in Dan. 11 and in Dan. 8:9 specifically where the Anti-Christ has to be born, in Greece. No matter how much I prove this, they plow head on with what their excited understandings. That is not only about these guys per se, its in general that way. Ten scriptures will, prove the one scripture they cling to wrong, but they do not have tine to seek out these deep truths.

I spent few months on a blog saying "THAT CITY" in Rev. 17:18 was Rome and as I reread my blog after I had posted it, the Holy Spirit was like, "Ron, what did John SEE?" (verse 18 says John SAWEST) So I looked and the vision is only like four verses, 3-6, so I studied it and understood, Babylon the Great is just one of Three Descriptors of the Harlot.

MYSTERY or Question Mark? (the Mystery is asking who is this Harlot, now we get the descriptions)

1.) Babylon the Great (Babylon was a noted city of FALSE RELIGION)
2.) Mother of Harlots (The original Harlotry was FALSE RELIGION)
3.) Abominations of the earth (God is a jealous God and any worshiping of other gods via FALSE RELIGION is an abomination unto God.)

Thus the Harlot is ALL False Religion of all time.

So, being able to be wrong is a quality we all need to develop. Else we can't hear God's truths.
 
Last edited:

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I wouldn't go that far, Satan confused Peter who cut off an ear and he walked with Jesus, he deceived David and he was a man after God's own heart. These guys are not called unto Prophecy in most cases, they get something I dismissed in the 80s, or 90s it "sounds good and Satan has a way of making things seem to fit" so they run with it but never do the grunt work needed to actually be teachers of Prophecy. I mean, with research and prayer we can overcome these things (try the spirits to see if they be of God). Instead they get excited about some RCC/Pope/the 10 vagabond nations or an Islamic Horde, when both are head-fakes by Satan. We are shown in Dan. 11 and in Dan. 8:9 specifically where the Anti-Christ has to be born. Greece. No matte how much I prove tis, they plow head on with what their excited understanding is, that not these guys per se, its in general tat way. 10 scriptures will, prove the one scripture they cling to wrong, but they do nit have tine to seek out these deep truths.

I spent few months on a blog saying "THAT CITY" in Rev. 17:18 was Rome and as a reread after I had posted my blog the Holy Spirit was like, "Ron, what did John SEE (verse 18 says John SAWEST) So I looked and the vision is only like four verses, 3-6, so I studied it and understood, Babylon the Great is just one of Three Descriptors of the Harlot.

MYSTERY or Question Mark? (the Mystery is asking who is this Harlot, now we get the descriptions)

1.) Babylon the Great (Babylon was a noted city of FALSE RELIGION)
2.) Mother of Harlots (The original Harlotry was FALSE RELIGION)
3.) Abominations of the earth (God is a jealous God and any worshiping of other gods via FALSE RELIGION is an abomination unto God.)

So, being able to be wrong is a quality we all need to develop.

I have not problems with being wrong in my understanding of God's Prophetic words, however, there are many who "preach" their understanding of the truth who are wrong in their understanding. In certain understanding that I have held to I have been wrong. Sadly, many, who have tried to correct me, have shown that their understanding is based on their own understanding and not the understanding that God has presented in the Scriptures and as such have not provided the proof necessary for me to change my understanding of Who God is and His Prophecies.

Our pride takes us into error quicker than Flash Gordan.

I know that not all of Prophecy has been revealed to me at this stage, but one the biggest errors that I am seeing presented is that the Wicked Fallen Heavenly Hosts are individuals, people groups, kingdoms or empires whereas I see that the Wicked Heavenly Host, the four winds of heaven have stirred up the sea and the people in the sea have been influenced to manifest the dominate characteristic of the respective Wicked Fallen Heavenly Hosts, i.e. the actual beasts in scripture, who then do the bidding of the respective beasts.

I have also learned to allow the thing that I do not comprehend in the scripture to be held lightly and to allow God the time to reveal his understanding to me.

Shalom