The fifth angel sounded

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user

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Revelation 9, verse 3.
“and there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth; and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And the shape of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.”

Remember, this is 2000 years ago, but he’s seeing locusts with breastplates of iron, with faces of men, the sound of their wings was the sound of many chariots, or many horses running to battle.

He is seeing helicopters, although he’d never seen a helicopter. He had no clue what they were, but he said, “these are locusts and they got breastplates of iron, but they have faces of men and the sound of their wings is the sound of many chariots going to battle.”

Take a look here at what he may have seen in his vision...

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It appears to me that is what John was seeing, and he was talking about warfare in the 20th century.

Verse 11 it continues the prophecy and it says, “and they had a king over them,” these warriors, these armies, “which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the hebrew tongue is abaddon, but in the greek tongue hath his name apollyon.”

Look up in a dictionary it defines both the Hebrew “abaddon” as the destroyer and the Greek “apollyon” means the destroyer, some translations in the bible actually say, “they had a king over them named the destroyer.”

Back in 1991 when all this was taking place, The German Tribune at the time, march 10, 1991 edition had an article about Saddam Hussein and about all that was happening in the gulf at the time, and the reporter called him Saddam “The Destroyer” Hussein.


Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Revelation 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.


During the Gulf War more than 600 Kuwaiti oil wells went up in flames and dramatic plumes of smoke turned day into night...

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Revelation 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

Note scripture states the locusts have power "as the scorpians" have power.

Revelation 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

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Operation Desert Shield began August 2 1990 – January 17 1991 (just over five months)
God Bless!
 
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Jay Ross

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I will ask the same question in this thread: "How and when did the scorpions/locust get put into the Bottomless pit so that the Angel, when he is given the key to the bottomless pit is able to unlock the pit so that they can come up out of the smoke rising out of the opening to the Bottomless pit?


Edited to make a correction to the question asked.
 
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user

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I will ask the same question in this thread: "How and when did the scorpions get put into the Bottomless pit so that the Angel, when he is given the key to the bottomless pit is able to unlock the pit so that they can come up out of the smoke rising out of the opening to the Bottomless pit?


You will need to provide scripture because we read SMOKE came out of the pit...

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Revelation 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

And out of the SMOKE came locusts...

Revelation 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

The locusts have power AS scorpions.

God Bless!
 
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Jay Ross

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My bad, I slipped up because I asked the question from memory and did not verify that the question was right.

As such i have gone back and corrected my question to again ask: -

"How and when did the scorpions/locust get put into the Bottomless pit so that the Angel, when he is given the key to the bottomless pit is able to unlock the pit so that they can come up out of the smoke rising out of the opening to the Bottomless pit?
 

user

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I will ask the same question in this thread: "How and when did the scorpions/locust get put into the Bottomless pit so that the Angel, when he is given the key to the bottomless pit is able to unlock the pit so that they can come up out of the smoke rising out of the opening to the Bottomless pit?


Yes you asked that same question in another person's thread. Whereby your position is as follows...

The fifth trumpet is heralding the release from the bottomless pit of the "locusts," in the distant future, and their "king" who rules over them is the wicked fallen heavenly angel, who John has called Abaddon in the Hebrew and Apollyon in the Greek, both the Hebrew and the Greek words have the meaning of the destroyer and the Strong definition of both words, suggests that the destroyer, is Satan. The "locust" are released before the four faceted beast and the little horn beasts are released also from the bottomless pit in Revelation 13. Revelation 20 also suggests that Satan is released after 1,000 years of imprisonment in the Bottomless pit has passed.


There is NO four face beast in Revelation 13.

The Beast having seven heads and ten horns is not released out of any pit. Scripture says this comes out of the sea...

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

The sea in the Bible could easily represent many nations.


God Bless!
 
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Jay Ross

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Yes you asked that same question in another person's thread. Whereby your position is as follows...




There is NO four face beast in Revelation 13.

The Beast having seven heads and ten horns is NOT released out of any pit. Scripture says this comes out of the sea...

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

The sea in the Bible could easily represent many nations.


God Bless!

Firstly, I said that the four facetted beast was released from the pit after the locusts. I said nothing about a four faced beast.

Secondly, can you confirm whether or not the beast described in Revelation 17:7-8 is the same beast as is the same beast described in Revelation 13:1-10

Revelation 17:7-8: - 7 But the angel said to me, "Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 13:1-3: - 13:1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast.​

I await your response.

Shalom

PS: - I wonder if you can also confirm whether the beast mentioned in Rev 13 and 17 is the same beast as mentioned in Daniel 7:15-20?

Daniel 7:15-20: - 15 "I, Daniel, was grieved in my spirit within my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. 16 I came near to one of those who stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of these things: 17 'Those great beasts, which are four, are four kings which arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever.'

19 "Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20 and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.​

I would appreciate your understanding on this matter.
 

Naomi25

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It will never cease to amaze me that the 'literalists', who constantly point there fingers at people like me (Amillennialists) and roll their eyes in woe at our 'spiritualizing' of Revelation...will then go on to interpret such a passage as this in such a manner.
Helicopters? Really? :rolleyes:
Wouldn't the most 'literal' reading of such a passage be to understand it for what it says it is? A swarm of demonic creatures sent to torment the earth?
 

Timtofly

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It will never cease to amaze me that the 'literalists', who constantly point there fingers at people like me (Amillennialists) and roll their eyes in woe at our 'spiritualizing' of Revelation...will then go on to interpret such a passage as this in such a manner.
Helicopters? Really? :rolleyes:
Wouldn't the most 'literal' reading of such a passage be to understand it for what it says it is? A swarm of demonic creatures sent to torment the earth?
Sure, you should see some of the virtual beings in video games now. Some people back 40 years ago only had helicopters to imagine with. Culture is about caught up with the reality of Revelation.
 

user

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It will never cease to amaze me that the 'literalists', who constantly point there fingers at people like me (Amillennialists) and roll their eyes in woe at our 'spiritualizing' of Revelation...will then go on to interpret such a passage as this in such a manner.
Helicopters? Really? :rolleyes:
Wouldn't the most 'literal' reading of such a passage be to understand it for what it says it is? A swarm of demonic creatures sent to torment the earth?


You are certainly free to believe as you wish. You may believe this...

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Now as for myself ... I see the helicopter as the best interpretation...


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God Bless!
 
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Jay Ross

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Firstly, I said that the four facetted beast was released from the pit after the locusts. I said nothing about a four faced beast.

Secondly, can you confirm whether or not the beast described in Revelation 17:7-8 is the same beast as is the same beast described in Revelation 13:1-10

Revelation 17:7-8: - 7 But the angel said to me, "Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 13:1-3: - 13:1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast.​

I await your response.

Shalom

PS: - I wonder if you can also confirm whether the beast mentioned in Rev 13 and 17 is the same beast as mentioned in Daniel 7:15-20?

Daniel 7:15-20: - 15 "I, Daniel, was grieved in my spirit within my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. 16 I came near to one of those who stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of these things: 17 'Those great beasts, which are four, are four kings which arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever.'

19 "Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20 and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.​

I would appreciate your understanding on this matter.

@user I am still waiting for your response.
 
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historyb

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It will never cease to amaze me that the 'literalists', who constantly point there fingers at people like me (Amillennialists) and roll their eyes in woe at our 'spiritualizing' of Revelation...will then go on to interpret such a passage as this in such a manner.
Helicopters? Really? :rolleyes:
Wouldn't the most 'literal' reading of such a passage be to understand it for what it says it is? A swarm of demonic creatures sent to torment the earth?

In a hundred years they'll be saying oh look this is all about us and in another hundred the same thing ad infinitum. Literalist can be quite amusing
 

Naomi25

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You are certainly free to believe as you wish. You may believe this...

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Now as for myself ... I see the helicopter as the best interpretation...


God Bless!

Okay, sure. It seems pretty far out there to picture a crazy scorpion/horse/lion creature, doesn't it? Seems much more likely that a helicopter would fit into the narration of this world?

Your problem with that is that Revelation is not describing something that would fit into the narration of this world. It frequently delves into descriptions of creatures that are of the spiritual world. For example:

and before the throne there was as it were a sea of glass, like crystal.
And around the throne, on each side of the throne, are four living creatures, full of eyes in front and behind: the first living creature like a lion, the second living creature like an ox, the third living creature with the face of a man, and the fourth living creature like an eagle in flight. And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all around and within, and day and night they never cease to say,
“Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty,
who was and is and is to come!” -Revelation 4:6–8


This is not the only time the Bible describes heavenly beings in such a manner:

And from the midst of it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had a human likeness, but each had four faces, and each of them had four wings. Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like the sole of a calf’s foot. And they sparkled like burnished bronze. Under their wings on their four sides they had human hands. And the four had their faces and their wings thus: their wings touched one another. Each one of them went straight forward, without turning as they went. As for the likeness of their faces, each had a human face. The four had the face of a lion on the right side, the four had the face of an ox on the left side, and the four had the face of an eagle. Such were their faces. And their wings were spread out above. Each creature had two wings, each of which touched the wing of another, while two covered their bodies. And each went straight forward. Wherever the spirit would go, they went, without turning as they went. As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, like the appearance of torches moving to and fro among the living creatures. And the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning. And the living creatures darted to and fro, like the appearance of a flash of lightning. -Ezekiel 1:5–14

There are other, similar verses in Ezekiel as well. But this one will do. The point being: Angelic beings are not always, or only, found in the form of man. Clearly they take composite form as well, made up of features found on man and beast. Sound at all familiar, and not anything like a helicopter?
Here's a question: what are demons?
Here's another question: when demons torment people on earth now, do we visually see them?
In other words, when these demons are released from the pit to torment the earth, is there anything in Revelation that tells us we see them? Or does only John see them? He says "I saw". John is given numerous visions throughout the book that, while giving us insight into what is going on in the spiritual world, does not necessarily take place on earth. Some are clearly in heaven; which we will not see even though they take place. We know that demonic presence occurs now without our seeing it. What makes us think we will see it then? We shall surely see the results of it. But I see nothing in Rev 9 that would give leave to suggest we MUST see these creatures.
 

Naomi25

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Sure, you should see some of the virtual beings in video games now. Some people back 40 years ago only had helicopters to imagine with. Culture is about caught up with the reality of Revelation.
Fantasy/sci-fi shows have been plumbing the bible for ages! How often have you watched/read something where they've plucked 'exotic' names from the cosmos, only to go "yeah...that's a bible name". What was it that Solomon said? "Nothing new under the sun". And there's zero doubt that God's done it first, and better!
 

Naomi25

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In a hundred years they'll be saying oh look this is all about us and in another hundred the same thing ad infinitum. Literalist can be quite amusing
Exasperating, I would say. I mean...sure...believe what you believe. I think you're in error in this particular point, but feel free. But let's have some consistency, yeah? Either you're reading it all literally, or you're not. Flip-flopping all over the joint is NOT what your hermeneutic allows for.
 
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Jay Ross

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You will need to provide scripture because we read SMOKE came out of the pit...

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Revelation 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

And out of the SMOKE came locusts...

Revelation 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

The locusts have power AS scorpions.

God Bless!

Now if the Locusts came out of the smoke which was coming out of the bottomless pit, then did not the locusts that came upon the earth also come out of the pit with the smoke?
 

Jay Ross

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The locust that come out of the smoke are Satan's angels. That event has yet to happen.

Hi N2TL,

The question that @user is not wanting to answer is where did the Locusts come from when they came out of the smoke? I believe that they came out of the Bottomless Pit and that they will be the Kings and their armies of the Nations of the World who will be judges in our near future when they assemble at Armageddon to go up against Jerusalem at the end of the allotted 2,300 year period of the gentiles trampling God's Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts, i.e. the Israelites from the twelve tribes of Israel. In Joel, the prophecy talks initially of the impact of Locusts on the land of Israel in Chapter 1 and then in Chapter 2 the army of the king who comes into the Land of Canaan will bring devastation into the Land like the devastation of a plague of Locusts does when they come into a land of green pastures flowing with milk and honey.

In Isaiah 24:21-22 we are told that God will Judge the wicked fallen heavenly host in heaven and they will be cast down to the earth and that at the same time, the kings of the earth will be judged on the earth and they will be gathered together, the heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth and will be shut up in a pit for many days awaiting the time of their punishment.

The kings of the earth will be judged along with the armies that they have and all will go into the Pit.

User claims that because the Rev 9 passage does not explicitly state that the Locusts did not come out of the pit but only said that they come out of the smoke coming out of the pit that the Locusts did not come out of the Pit as well.

He also claims that because Rev 13:1-12 did not state that the beast described in this passage rose out of the Earth/Pit that he only rose up out of the sea, but the verse is describing the influence of the Beast on the humanity of the sea in that they people rose up as the beast's army to go all over the earth to kill those who do not worship Satan. The same beast is described in Rev 17 as rising up out of the Bottomless Pit and will endure for a short time before he will be thrown into the Lake of Fire with the False Prophet.

Interestingly, in Chapter 17, reference is made to the five kings who had dominion over the Land of the Chaldeans and at the time of the little while period when the beasts rises up out of the Bottomless Pit, are no more, and that the woman is sitting on top of five mountains, i.e. world religions, and that the beast is a part of these seven religions and when he comes he will become the eighth world religion, i.e. mountain, as told in Rev 13, before he will be captured as foretold in Rev 19 and cast into the Lake of Fire.

In our haste to explain what is meant in the Biblical Prophecies, we have tended to listen to Satan's explanation of the end times and come under his influence and as such have been deceived by him where Satan has flipped our understanding such that Jesus, God son is now the bad guy in our understanding of the end times. An example of this is in the "traditional" understanding now where the lead character is belied to be "Christ" in the parables of the Minas and the Talents instead of Satan.

The "Christians" have been encouraged to save their lives by avoiding the periods of tribulations that will come whereby the Church and its adherents will be refined by the fires of tribulation when the church and its adherents go through the tribulation of the End Times.

Those who attempt to save their own lives will lose their life because they had no faith in God to protect them during the times of tribulation. Many who believe that they will not go through the near future period of tribulation believe that they will come back to rule over cities and people because they were "Good servants" and did the bidding of their master with the means that he provided them with to continue his oppression of the people during the 1,000 years that Satan is imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit along with the four Beasts of Daniel 7:1-12.

Sadly for many the above seems complicated, but when the keys of understanding are given to those with wisdom, the understanding is revealed to them and makes sense.

Shalom

PS: - Even those who have the wisdom to understand, will not perceive everything within the End Time Prophecies. Some End Time Prophecies will remain sealed until they unfold before our very eyes.
 
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n2thelight

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Hi N2TL,

The question that @user is not wanting to answer is where did the Locusts come from when they came out of the smoke? I believe that they came out of the Bottomless Pit and that they will be the Kings and their armies of the Nations of the World who will be judges in our near future when they assemble at Armageddon to go up against Jerusalem at the end of the allotted 2,300 year period of the gentiles trampling God's Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts, i.e. the Israelites from the twelve tribes of Israel. In Joel, the prophecy talks initially of the impact of Locusts on the land of Israel in Chapter 1 and then in Chapter 2 the army of the king who comes into the Land of Canaan will bring devastation into the Land like the devastation of a plague of Locusts does when they come into a land of green pastures flowing with milk and honey.

In Isaiah 24:21-22 we are told that God will Judge the wicked fallen heavenly host in heaven and they will be cast down to the earth and that at the same time, the kings of the earth will be judged on the earth and they will be gathered together, the heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth and will be shut up in a pit for many days awaiting the time of their punishment.

The kings of the earth will be judged along with the armies that they have and all will go into the Pit.

User claims that because the Rev 9 passage does not explicitly state that the Locusts did not come out of the pit but only said that they come out of the smoke coming out of the pit that the Locusts did not come out of the Pit as well.

He also claims that because Rev 13:1-12 did not state that the beast described in this passage rose out of the Earth/Pit that he only rose up out of the sea, but the verse is describing the influence of the Beast on the humanity of the sea in that they people rose up as the beast's army to go all over the earth to kill those who do not worship Satan. The same beast is described in Rev 17 as rising up out of the Bottomless Pit and will endure for a short time before he will be thrown into the Lake of Fire with the False Prophet.

Interestingly, in Chapter 17, reference is made to the five kings who had dominion over the Land of the Chaldeans and at the time of the little while period when the beasts rises up out of the Bottomless Pit, are no more, and that the woman is sitting on top of five mountains, i.e. world religions, and that the beast is a part of these seven religions and when he comes he will become the eighth world religion, i.e. mountain, as told in Rev 13, before he will be captured as foretold in Rev 19 and cast into the Lake of Fire.

In our haste to explain what is meant in the Biblical Prophecies, we have tended to listen to Satan's explanation of the end times and come under his influence and as such have been deceived by him where Satan has flipped our understanding such that Jesus, God son is now the bad guy in our understanding of the end times. An example of this is in the "traditional" understanding now where the lead character is belied to be "Christ" in the parables of the Minas and the Talents instead of Satan.

The "Christians" have been encouraged to save their lives by avoiding the periods of tribulations that will come whereby the Church and its adherents will be refined by the fires of tribulation when the church and its adherents go through the tribulation of the End Times.

Those who attempt to save their own lives will lose their life because they had no faith in God to protect them during the times of tribulation. Many who believe that they will not go through the near future period of tribulation believe that they will come back to rule over cities and people because they were "Good servants" and did the bidding of their master with the means that he provided them with to continue his oppression of the people during the 1,000 years that Satan is imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit along with the four Beasts of Daniel 7:1-12.

Sadly for many the above seems complicated, but when the keys of understanding are given to those with wisdom, the understanding is revealed to them and makes sense.

Shalom

PS: - Even those who have the wisdom to understand, will not perceive everything within the End Time Prophecies. Some End Time Prophecies will remain sealed until they unfold before our very eyes.

The one fact that most can't seem to fathom is,supernatural entities here on this earth,live and in person.
satan and his angels will rule over this earth,and the whole world will believe him to be Christ.

That's the number one deception Christ warned us about.
 

Jay Ross

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The one fact that most can't seem to fathom is, supernatural entities here on this earth,live and in person.
satan and his angels will rule over this earth ,and the whole world will believe him to be Christ.

That's the number one deception Christ warned us about.

At the present time, Satan is being restrained, some what, but in the near future when Satan and his fallen wicked angels get locked up in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years, he will have no ability to directly influence the people of the earth except through his good and faithful servants who he is presently enabling to do so during the period he is in the Abyss.

However when he and his minions are released from the Bottomless pit, he will not be restrained for a little while and a great falling away of the saints will occur.

Why does Satan's army march all over the earth? Because that is where he will find the Saints living, both Israelites and Gentile people who have been taught about the religion of Christ in the fertile fields where the Lord has planted His Saints so that they can bless all the nations of the earth.

Shalom
 

n2thelight

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Atlanta,Ga
At the present time, Satan is being restrained, some what, but in the near future when Satan and his fallen wicked angels get locked up in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years, he will have no ability to directly influence the people of the earth except through his good and faithful servants who he is presently enabling to do so during the period he is in the Abyss.

However when he and his minions are released from the Bottomless pit, he will not be restrained for a little while and a great falling away of the saints will occur.

Why does Satan's army march all over the earth? Because that is where he will find the Saints living, both Israelites and Gentile people who have been taught about the religion of Christ in the fertile fields where the Lord has planted His Saints so that they can bless all the nations of the earth.

Shalom

Thinking you have the timeline off. satan will come to this earth with his angels although his evilness is here now,he is not .When he comes is when the falling away will happen,all except for those with the seal of God will fall for the deception.

Most will come out of the whore before the return of our true savior, Jesus Christ they are those whom the 2nd death will have no power ,those not in Christ before His return are those who are called the dead and they are the only ones whom satan can deceive after the 1000 years.