The Gate of Heaven שַׁעַר הַשָּׁמָיִם

[Episkopos]

This is going to be an in depth study about the identity of Jesus Christ.....as per both testaments. I will be drawing a parallel between Gen. 28 and John 1

Jacob's ladder...

Gen. 28:12 And he (Jacob) dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

In Hebrew it reads like this...
וְהִנֵּה מַלְאֲכֵי אֱלֹהִים, עֹלִים וְיֹרְדִים בּוֹ

The last word in Hebrew translated as "on it" is actually "in Him."

So the correct Hebrew sentence should read... and behold the angels of God ascending and descending in Him.

Now we know that Jesus is the door......but the door to what? To heaven!

Notice the parallel to the Genesis account with what Jesus says...

John 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Notice that the ladder to heaven and the door to heaven are IN Jesus Christ.

Gen. 28:17 And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.

כִּי אִם-בֵּית אֱלֹהִים, וְזֶה, שַׁעַר הַשָּׁמָיִם

Jesus is both the house of God AND the gate of heaven.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This is going to be an in depth study about the identity of Jesus Christ.....as per both testaments. I will be drawing a parallel between Gen. 28 and John 1

Jacob's ladder...

Gen. 28:12 And he (Jacob) dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

In Hebrew it reads like this...
וְהִנֵּה מַלְאֲכֵי אֱלֹהִים, עֹלִים וְיֹרְדִים בּוֹ

The last word in Hebrew translated as "on it" is actually "in Him."

So the correct Hebrew sentence should read... and behold the angels of God ascending and descending in Him.

Now we know that Jesus is the door......but the door to what? To heaven!

Notice the parallel to the Genesis account with what Jesus says...

John 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Notice that the ladder to heaven and the door to heaven are IN Jesus Christ.

Gen. 28:17 And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.

כִּי אִם-בֵּית אֱלֹהִים, וְזֶה, שַׁעַר הַשָּׁמָיִם

Jesus is both the house of God AND the gate of heaven.

There are some questions I have. Please take them seriously. I’m not going to be offended if you totally correct and show where it is wrong. In the Old Testament there are words such as ‘terrible’ and ‘dreadful’ so much so that they cried out that the word should not be spoken to them any more. Torment. Wrath. Separation. The unapproachable Fire of God. So please consider Jacob’s words of ‘dreadful’. Is this not in coming before the Law of condemnation against all sin. A God that can’t be touched. Jacob ...how ‘dreadful’ he stood in the house of God. But there is no more condemnation for those in Christ. Is Christ not (Spirit) head of the Church (His body) and therefore the house of God?

What is this place of condemnation of sin(man)under the mosaic law?
1)a mountain that can’t be touched.
2)...that burned with fire.
3)....unto blackness
4) ...unto darkness
5)...and tempest
6)...the sound of a trumpet; the voice of words which they that heard Intreated to not be spoken to them.
7) where if a beast touched the mountain it was stoned.
8)...or the beast thrust through with a dart.
So terrible was the sight that Moses said he exceedingly feared and quaked.

Isn’t this the torment cast out, death overcome by Christ (Hebrews 12:18-25). Peace. In that Christ casts out fear of flesh...We come to mount Sion, to the city of the living God, an innumerable company of angels, to the assembly and church of the first born...to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, to the blood of sprinkling..speaking better things than that of Abel.

The question regarding Jacob’s ladder ...is it by flesh or by Spirit? The ladder is not by the Mosiac law and condemnation of sin unto death but by the righteousness of Christ the first born of the assembly and church(body). Is it still ‘dreadful’ ‘terrible’ unapproachable?

Jesus Christ said “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” Is His voice the sound of a trumpet, a voice that when they hear it they intreat to hear the voice no longer? (Hebrews 12:19)

John 7:37
[37] In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

Luke 18:16
[16] But Jesus called them unto him , and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

 

[Episkopos]

There are some questions I have. Please take them seriously. I’m not going to be offended if you totally correct and show where it is wrong. In the Old Testament there are words such as ‘terrible’ and ‘dreadful’ so much so that they cried out that the word should not be spoken to them any more. Torment. Wrath. Separation. The unapproachable Fire of God. So please consider Jacob’s words of ‘dreadful’. Is this not in coming before the Law of condemnation against all sin. A God that can’t be touched. Jacob ...how ‘dreadful’ he stood in the house of God. But there is no more condemnation for those in Christ. Is Christ not (Spirit) head of the Church (His body) and therefore the house of God?

The word for "dreadful" is just fearful...meaning the true presence of God. A fearful presence doesn't mean condemnation. This regards the nature of the presence of God.....it's not about us.

Remember when the disciples were fearful in the storm on the sea? When they saw Jesus walking on the water they were even MORE afraid....not less afraid.

" When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and coming near the boat, and they were frightened."

The reality of the power and presence of God causes us to be afraid. Our trust in His words alleviates that fear.

 

[Episkopos]

The question regarding Jacob’s ladder ...is it by flesh or by Spirit?

God is looking for they who worship Him in Spirit and truth. Jesus is the spiritual doorway into fellowship with God...in Zion. The power that is IN Jesus takes us (translates us) to be in God's presence in Zion. Then we walk IN the Spirit.

 

[marks]

Gen. 28:12 And he (Jacob) dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

Hi Episkopos,

That is interesting, I never noticed that before! It looks like the same thing is said earlier also, "and the top of him touching towards the heavens".

I did some checking on other verse. Now, I know that from what Jesus said about the seeing the angels descending and ascending on the Son of Man that the symbolism is sound. Just the same . . . it seems to be a standard Hebrew phraseology. It looks like this is used in a number of other places, "he" where we would say "it". I'm not so sure each place is meant to be taken as a person.

Now we know that Jesus is the door......but the door to what? To heaven!

Isn't Jesus the door to the sheepfold? Wait . . . I'm thinking of the 'gate'. Jesus said I am the gate for the sheep. Was this what you had in mind or something different?

Much love!
Mark

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The word for "dreadful" is just fearful...meaning the true presence of God. A fearful presence doesn't mean condemnation. This regards the nature of the presence of God.....it's not about us.

Remember when the disciples were fearful in the storm on the sea? When they saw Jesus walking on the water they were even MORE afraid....not less afraid.

" When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and coming near the boat, and they were frightened."

The reality of the power and presence of God causes us to be afraid. Our trust in His words alleviates that fear.

I guess that is the question on the ‘dreadful’ which I’ll have to look into further. Fearful. Thank you.

Hebrews 10:27-28
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. [28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Romans 4:15
[15] Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Proverbs 19:12
[12] The king's wrath is as the roaring of a lion; but his favour is as dew upon the grass.

Proverbs 16:14-15
[14] The wrath of a king is as messengers of death: but a wise man will pacify it. [15] In the light of the king's countenance is life; and his favour is as a cloud of the latter rain.

2 Corinthians 3:9
[9] For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

What is the ministration of condemnation?
What is the ministration of righteousness of Christ is this not “the gate to heaven”?

Romans 8:2
[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death(the Old Testament ministration of condemnation)?

Can see what you are saying in the OP but was only asking about ‘Jacob’s ladder’ and then the difference in spiritual Israel. As far as the walking on water with all subdued under Jesus Christ feet ...it was a tempest He stilled with peace. Matthew 8:24-25 And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep. [25] And his disciples came to him , and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.

“Lord, save us: we perish.”

Jonah 1:4-5
[4] But the Lord sent out a great wind into the sea, and there was a mighty tempest in the sea, so that the ship was like to be broken. [5] Then the mariners were afraid, and cried every man unto his god, and cast forth the wares that were in the ship into the sea, to lighten it of them. But Jonah was gone down into the sides of the ship; and he lay, and was fast asleep.

 

[Episkopos]

Hi Episkopos,

That is interesting, I never noticed that before! It looks like the same thing is said earlier also, "and the top of him touching towards the heavens".

I did some checking on other verse. Now, I know that from what Jesus said about the seeing the angels descending and ascending on the Son of Man that the symbolism is sound. Just the same . . . it seems to be a standard Hebrew phraseology. It looks like this is used in a number of other places, "he" where we would say "it". I'm not so sure each place is meant to be taken as a person.

Hey Mark! It could be either. My point is that the actual way of translating the Hebrew "BO" is literally...In Him. The bible has many such double meanings....and Christ is there if one reads the word carefully.

Isn't Jesus the door to the sheepfold? Wait . . . I'm thinking of the 'gate'. Jesus said I am the gate for the sheep. Was this what you had in mind or something different?

Much love!
Mark

Yes! But that sheepfold is in Zion....where there is the possibility of fellowship with the Father. John says...Our fellowship is with the Father and His Son Jesus...

The point of this thread is to go into the more mysterious aspect of the identity of Jesus...the doorway into the heavenly realm of the Spirit which is Zion.

 

[Episkopos]

I guess that is the question on the ‘dreadful’ which I’ll have to look into further. Fearful. Thank you.

Hebrews 10:27-28
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. [28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Romans 4:15
[15] Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Proverbs 19:12
[12] The king's wrath is as the roaring of a lion; but his favour is as dew upon the grass.

Proverbs 16:14-15
[14] The wrath of a king is as messengers of death: but a wise man will pacify it. [15] In the light of the king's countenance is life; and his favour is as a cloud of the latter rain.

2 Corinthians 3:9
[9] For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

What is the ministration of condemnation?
What is the ministration of righteousness of Christ is this not “the gate to heaven”?

Romans 8:2
[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death(the Old Testament ministration of condemnation)?

Can see what you are saying in the OP but was only asking about ‘Jacob’s ladder’ and then the difference in spiritual Israel. As far as the walking on water with all subdued under Jesus Christ feet ...it was a tempest He stilled with peace. Matthew 8:24-25 And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep. [25] And his disciples came to him , and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.

“Lord, save us: we perish.”

Jonah 1:4-5
[4] But the Lord sent out a great wind into the sea, and there was a mighty tempest in the sea, so that the ship was like to be broken. [5] Then the mariners were afraid, and cried every man unto his god, and cast forth the wares that were in the ship into the sea, to lighten it of them. But Jonah was gone down into the sides of the ship; and he lay, and was fast asleep.

I think we need to make a big distinction between the natural fear we have for an eternal God and His wrath.

Fear takes place when the natural meets the supernatural. So it is acceptable and natural that we fear. It is actually wise to do so.

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus Christ Himself is the transporter to the Father and HIS realm in the Spirit.

Col. 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Being a mediator is like a transporter in the Star Trek stories. In Christ we go to where God is. That is what it means to abide in Christ.

 

[marks]

Hey Mark! It could be either. My point is that the actual way of translating the Hebrew "BO" is literally...In Him. The bible has many such double meanings....and Christ is there if one reads the word carefully.


Yes! But that sheepfold is in Zion....where there is the possibility of fellowship with the Father. John says...Our fellowship is with the Father and His Son Jesus...

The point of this thread is to go into the more mysterious aspect of the identity of Jesus...the doorway into the heavenly realm of the Spirit which is Zion.

OK. Getting a little mystical for me. To me that sheepfold is salvation, being one of His. We enter that through Him.

I don't need to go too much farther than that, I think that is what the Scripture signifies.

Not to question where I think you may be going with this. We are seated together, you and I and the rest of us, in the heavenlies. We have an anchor sure and steadfast that holds within the veil. There are more, but let's go straight to the heart of it.

Colossians 3:1-4
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

We set our minds on the heavenly, because that's where Jesus is, and that's where we are, hidden in Him. He is indeed our doorway into the heavenlies, if you will. These seem like more straightforward Scriptures to me.

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

Jesus Christ Himself is the transporter to the Father and HIS realm in the Spirit.

Jesus said that the Father, the Spirit, and Himself would come and live in us, did He not?

Much love!
Mark

 

[Episkopos]

OK. Getting a little mystical for me. To me that sheepfold is salvation, being one of His. We enter that through Him.

I don't need to go too much farther than that, I think that is what the Scripture signifies.

Not to question where I think you may be going with this. We are seated together, you and I and the rest of us, in the heavenlies. We have an anchor sure and steadfast that holds within the veil. There are more, but let's go straight to the heart of it.

Colossians 3:1-4
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

We set our minds on the heavenly, because that's where Jesus is, and that's where we are, hidden in Him. He is indeed our doorway into the heavenlies, if you will. These seem like more straightforward Scriptures to me.

Much love!
Mark

But the mystery goes deeper here. Through Him we have access to the very throne of God. We can walk in His perfection. Whether or not that will be realized by each one of us in our lifetime is not the issue. We should see this as a body thing whereby the brethren bring treasures from heaven.

It is like when friends visit a foreign land.....and bring us something back. So it is with spiritual gifts. These encourage us to wards the spiritual inclination to be available for God.

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus said that the Father, the Spirit, and Himself would come and live in us, did He not?

Much love!
Mark

Amen...He makes His abode in us. But we also can make our abode in Him. That is what this thread is about. Jesus as the doorway into the heavenly realm.

 

[Episkopos]

There is a trend in todays teachings that would minimize the depths of Christ so as not to seem to leave anybody out. But this trend has hurt the church and it's potential for growth and power in a decisive way.

We need to start thinking as a body. We need the gifts in the body...even if it isn't us ourselves having them. We need to start thinking as a team.

The bible speaks constantly of impossible things. Jesus says that we ought to heal the sick and raise the dead. We need to rise to the challenge of faith...not shield people from the high calling in Christ.

 

[marks]

Jesus is the spiritual doorway into fellowship with God...in Zion. The power that is IN Jesus takes us (translates us) to be in God's presence in Zion. Then we walk IN the Spirit.

Amen...He makes His abode in us. But we also can make our abode in Him. That is what this thread is about. Jesus as the doorway into the heavenly realm.

I'm just trying to figure out where you're getting this from. Fellowship in Zion? I just can't think of anything in Scripture that talks about us going to Zion to fellowship with God.

Where is there Scripture about us making our abode in Him?

I mean, we are to remain in Christ, as Christ remains in us, I know that.

Having been baptised into Christ, what remains to be done? Only to believe what God has already done?

?

Much love!
Mark

 

[amadeus]

I'm just trying to figure out where you're getting this from. Fellowship in Zion? I just can't think of anything in Scripture that talks about us going to Zion to fellowship with God.

Where is there Scripture about us making our abode in Him?

I mean, we are to remain in Christ, as Christ remains in us, I know that.

Having been baptised into Christ, what remains to be done? Only to believe what God has already done?

?

Much love!
Mark

Consider these and surrounding verses:

"For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it" Psalm 132:13-14

"Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief." Heb 4:11

What exactly does the word, Zion, mean? One meaning is a "parched place" that which each of us is or was before we met the Master. Consider then what happens when we have drunk of the Living Water:

"Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water." John 4:10

"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." John 7:38

 

[CoreIssue]

I'm just trying to figure out where you're getting this from. Fellowship in Zion? I just can't think of anything in Scripture that talks about us going to Zion to fellowship with God.

Where is there Scripture about us making our abode in Him?

I mean, we are to remain in Christ, as Christ remains in us, I know that.

Having been baptised into Christ, what remains to be done? Only to believe what God has already done?

?

Much love!
Mark

zionIn the Bible at DuckDuckGo

 

[Helen]

@Episkopos

Hey there. Very good thread. Love it!! Love your posts.

You mentioned Jesus being the Door to Heaven...I tend to believe that "Heaven" is God Himself. Jesus is our door into being One with God ..is that not the race that we run...

I don't think it is a play on words when reading Philippians 3:14
" I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." I see our prize being God Himself. Our heart and our desire...
I believe He IS the streets of gold etc etc....

What say you?

 

[Helen]

Where is there Scripture about us making our abode in Him?

Ps 91 "He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. "

John 15:4
" Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in Me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."

 

[CoreIssue]

This is going to be an in depth study about the identity of Jesus Christ.....as per both testaments. I will be drawing a parallel between Gen. 28 and John 1

Jacob's ladder...

Gen. 28:12 And he (Jacob) dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

In Hebrew it reads like this...
וְהִנֵּה מַלְאֲכֵי אֱלֹהִים, עֹלִים וְיֹרְדִים בּוֹ

The last word in Hebrew translated as "on it" is actually "in Him."

So the correct Hebrew sentence should read... and behold the angels of God ascending and descending in Him.

Now we know that Jesus is the door......but the door to what? To heaven!

Notice the parallel to the Genesis account with what Jesus says...

John 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Notice that the ladder to heaven and the door to heaven are IN Jesus Christ.

Gen. 28:17 And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.

כִּי אִם-בֵּית אֱלֹהִים, וְזֶה, שַׁעַר הַשָּׁמָיִם

Jesus is both the house of God AND the gate of heaven.

Genesis 28:12
12 He had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending

It does not mean on him, Jesus Christ. Yet another example why I asked you what denomination you are.

First of all Jesus Christ did not exist until the incarnation.

Second, ascending and descending mean exactly that.

The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 03381 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
dry a primitive root
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Yarad TWOT - 909
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
yaw-rad' Verb
Definition

1. to go down, descend, decline, march down, sink down
   1. (Qal)
      1. to go or come down
      2. to sink
      3. to be prostrated
      4. to come down (of revelation)
   2. (Hiphil)
      1. to bring down
      2. to send down
      3. to take down
      4. to lay prostrate
      5. to let down
   3. (Hophal)
      1. to be brought down
      2. to be taken down

John 1:51
50 Jesus said, “You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You will see greater things than that.”
51 He then added, “Very truly I tell you,youwill see ‘heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on’the Son of Man.”

Jesus is both the house of God AND the gate of heaven.

The church is the house of God. It is built up on Jesus, which does not make Jesus the house of God.

The gate of heaven has always existed. The Angels have been moving back and forth between heaven and earth since the creation.

Jesus is the door of salvation, the Gateway and the narrow path. All figurative language saying there is no other way to be saved but by coming to him.

Until that door opened at the resurrection no spirit of any saint entered heaven.