The good and the perfect

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Prentis

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There is a lack of understanding in the western church about the call to what is perfect in Christ Jesus.

We are presented with many things we deem good. A good study, a good book, a good thought, and we satisfy ourselves with these things. We are rich with goods and good things! But even these good things are not what we are called to in Christ Jesus. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil does indeed offer the knowledge of the good.

But we are called to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect. Perfect is what God has ordained and God desires to do in that specific moment and place. Perfect is his will.

The great issue is that the good, when widely accepted as good enough, ends up being in opposition to the perfect when it indeed arrives. Our humans systems, human accomplishments, human good will all work, in our eyes, for the good of humanity. But it is a good that is separated from God.

When we become such adamant defenders of the good, we unknowingly become enemies of the perfect, because we must be crucified to the lusts of the flesh, the desires of knowledge of good and evil, that we would learn to walk according to the life of God in us.

So people, in defense of the organized church and it's institutions say 'consider all the good it has done, all the programs it has put together, and the meetings it organized', but the truth is if we have missed the perfect which we are called to, all the good we have done is but filthy rags.

The question is not 'what would Jesus do' which is according to knowledge, but 'what is Jesus doing', which is according to revelation and life in the Spirit.
 

Suhar

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Prentis said:
The tree of the knowledge of good and evil does indeed offer the knowledge of the good.
God did not create evil he left out possibility for evil to exist. How do you know that good is good without possibility of evil? How can you love if you cannot hate?

Tree of knowledge did not offer knowledge of good only of evil and by comparison to it knowledge that good is good.
 

aspen

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we were created to love perfectly. We failed in the Garden. God came for us - Jesus died for us and the Holy Spirit sanctifies us by teaching and shaping our hearts to love selfishly, one again. Loving perfectly is existence without sin or perfection
 

Prentis

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Suhar said:
God did not create evil he left out possibility for evil to exist. How do you know that good is good without possibility of evil? How can you love if you cannot hate?

Tree of knowledge did not offer knowledge of good only of evil and by comparison to it knowledge that good is good.
See, but then we are still using the knowledge of good and evil to judge what is indeed good. But are we not then eating of that tree that is forbidden?

The Pharisees also ate of the tree of good and evil, they compared and decided, this is good, this is evil according to knowledge. But when the perfect came, that is the tree of life, they rejected it, because it did not fit their definition of good.

That is the danger of eating of that tree.
aspen2 said:
we were created to love perfectly. We failed in the Garden. God came for us - Jesus died for us and the Holy Spirit sanctifies us by teaching and shaping our hearts to love selfishly, one again. Loving perfectly is existence without sin or perfection
I believe you meant love unselfishly.

We were created to love perfectly, that is holding nothing back. We are called to this kind of walk and it is indeed available to us now through Christ Jesus, in whom there is no sin. :)
 
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Suhar

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Prentis said:
See, but then we are still using the knowledge of good and evil to judge what is indeed good. But are we not then eating of that tree that is forbidden?
[SIZE=medium]We are not eating from that three but we are still reaping the consequences of that one eating.[/SIZE]
 

IanLC

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Christ Jesus imparts His righteousness in us! There is no good thing or righteous thing that lies within us but through the unblemished and perfect lamb of God came salvation and atonement for all men who accept and believe. Thus through the blood we are justified, through the washing of the Word we are sanctified and through the power of the Holy Spirit we are enabled to live holy lives unto God! Simply saying if you profess Christ then you should possess Christ (i.e. His love, character, holiness, power, etc.)

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,...in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Romans 8:1 & 4)

Jesus is coming back for a Holy Church without spot or wrinkle. "That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish" (Ephesians 5:27)
 
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Dan57

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UHCAIan said:
Christ Jesus imparts His righteousness in us! There is no good thing or righteous thing that lies within us but through the unblemished and perfect lamb of God came salvation and atonement for all men who accept and believe. Thus through the blood we are justified, through the washing of the Word we are sanctified and through the power of the Holy Spirit we are enabled to live holy lives unto God! Simply saying if you profess Christ then you should possess Christ (i.e. His love, character, holiness, power, etc.)
I agree, none of us are perfect or good; "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6)

But we are perfected through Christ; “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me” (Matthew 19:21).

"There is none good but one, that is, God" (Mark 10:18)

"The LORD is good" (Psalm 135:3)
 
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Prentis

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UHCAIan said:
Christ Jesus imparts His righteousness in us! There is no good thing or righteous thing that lies within us but through the unblemished and perfect lamb of God came salvation and atonement for all men who accept and believe. Thus through the blood we are justified, through the washing of the Word we are sanctified and through the power of the Holy Spirit we are enabled to live holy lives unto God! Simply saying if you profess Christ then you should possess Christ (i.e. His love, character, holiness, power, etc.)

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,...in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Romans 8:1 & 4)

Jesus is coming back for a Holy Church without spot or wrinkle. "That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish" (Ephesians 5:27)
Amen! Our perfection is in Christ, where we are called to abide! :)

Thank you for providing a balanced view of Romans 8:1 and it's meaning!

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,...in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Romans 8:1 & 4)
 

justaname

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Prentis said:
There is a lack of understanding in the western church about the call to what is perfect in Christ Jesus.

We are presented with many things we deem good. A good study, a good book, a good thought, and we satisfy ourselves with these things. We are rich with goods and good things! But even these good things are not what we are called to in Christ Jesus. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil does indeed offer the knowledge of the good.

But we are called to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect. Perfect is what God has ordained and God desires to do in that specific moment and place. Perfect is his will.

The great issue is that the good, when widely accepted as good enough, ends up being in opposition to the perfect when it indeed arrives. Our humans systems, human accomplishments, human good will all work, in our eyes, for the good of humanity. But it is a good that is separated from God.

When we become such adamant defenders of the good, we unknowingly become enemies of the perfect, because we must be crucified to the lusts of the flesh, the desires of knowledge of good and evil, that we would learn to walk according to the life of God in us.

So people, in defense of the organized church and it's institutions say 'consider all the good it has done, all the programs it has put together, and the meetings it organized', but the truth is if we have missed the perfect which we are called to, all the good we have done is but filthy rags.

The question is not 'what would Jesus do' which is according to knowledge, but 'what is Jesus doing', which is according to revelation and life in the Spirit.
To answer your question,"what is Jesus doing", you would look to the Church. Being that the Church is the Body of Christ, we are His stead. Perhaps you see the activities of the Church as "filthy rags", yet I do not.

As to your "good enough" point.
How well are you living up to perfection?

Maybe you want to read this by R.C. Sproul...

There are a couple of things we need to understand about this statement. In the first place, the word that is translated “perfect” literally means “be complete.” So often, the New Testament and the Old Testament will describe people as being upright and righteous—not in the sense that they have achieved total moral perfection, but rather that they have reached a singular level of maturity in their growth in terms of spiritual integrity. However, in this statement, it’s certainly legitimate to translate it using the English word perfect. For example, “Be ye complete as your heavenly Father is complete.” Now remember that your heavenly Father is perfectly complete! So if we are to mirror God in that way, we are to mirror him in his moral excellence as well as in other ways. In fact, the basic call to a person in this world is to be a reflection of the character of God. That’s what it means to be created in the image of God. Long before the Sermon on the Mount, God required the people of Israel to reflect his character when he said to them, “Be ye holy even as I am holy.” He set them apart to be holy ones. The New Testament word for that is saints.
Now to the question of whether we can, in fact, achieve moral perfection in this world. If Jesus says to be perfect, the assumption would be that he would not require us to do something that is impossible for us to achieve. Therefore, there are Christians, many Christians, who believe that, indeed, it is possible for a person to reach a state of moral perfection in this life. That view is called perfectionism, and people develop a theology whereby there’s a special work of the Holy Spirit that gives them victory over all sin or all intentional sin that renders them morally perfect in this world. The mainstream of Christianity, however, has resisted the doctrine of perfectionism chiefly because we see the record of the greatest saints in biblical history and in church history who to a person confessed the fact that they, to their dying day, struggled with ongoing sin in their lives. Not the least of which, of course, was the apostle Paul, who talked about his ongoing struggle with sin.
Can a person be perfect? Theoretically, the answer to that is yes. The New Testament tells us that with every temptation we meet, God gives us a way to escape that temptation. He always gives us enough grace to overcome sin. So sin in the Christian life, I would say, is inevitable because of our weakness and because of the multitude of opportunities we have to sin. But on a given occasion, it is never, ever necessary. So in that sense, we could theoretically be perfect, though none of us is.
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/qas/when-jesus-says-be-ye-perfect-your-father-heaven-p/