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Featured THE Gospel

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by H. Richard, Nov 1, 2018.

  1. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    Acts 15:10-11
    10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
    11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they."
    NKJV -----What was the difference between the Jews gospel and Paul's gospel?

    1 Cor 15:1-4
    15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
    2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you — unless you believed in vain.
    3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
    4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,
    NKJV

    Jesus paid for our sins --verse 3

    Verse 3 does not say anything about water baptism. repenting or the requirement to eat a ritual Lords Supper. As a matter of fact the only requirement is to believe the gospel as stated in the verse 3 and 4.
     
  2. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Water baptism is an identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus...so it is inherent in a biblical understanding of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
     
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  3. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    And Romans 6
     
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  4. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    Again I say that Verse 3 does not say anything about water baptism. repenting or the requirement to eat a ritual Lords Supper. As a matter of fact the only requirement is to believe the gospel as stated in the verse 3 and 4.

    In simple words """water""" baptism does not save anyone.
     
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  5. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    It does indeed save as a point of contact.
     
  6. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    Those that teach water baptism saves a person are in direct opposition to what Paul taught. No religious works, rituals or otherwise will save a person.

    Only placing faith in His work on the cross where He paid for the sins of mankind will save a person.
     
  7. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    How do you know you are saved? I mean besides interpreting a bible verse to your own advantage. Oh, and besides indoctrination.

    I am supposing you mean a salvation based on a bad reading of Paul as opposed to the conditions for discipleship as per Jesus.
     
  8. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Those who teach that water baptism doesn't save are in direct opposition to what Peter taught (1 Peter 3:20-21). Is Paul in contradiction to Peter?

    Paul also wrote the following verses: Galatians 3:27, Romans 6:3-4, Colossians 2:12-14; and I think a few others on the subject that say the same thing.

    If you are opposed to water baptism as a point of contact for salvation, that indicates to me that maybe you were never water baptized in the proper manner (though I have contended for your pov having been water baptized in Jesus' name; because I simply didn't want to believe that certain friends weren't saved). If that be the case, then I suggest you read Acts of the Apostles 22:16 and obey it. With the right prayer, you can even baptize yourself in your own bathtub and it will be valid (pray that it will be before all men that it is witnessed as that part of your life is shown on the day of judgment, and pray that it is in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and that the element of repentance is not absent).
     
  9. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    That is an integral part of the confession when a person is truly baptized in Jesus' name as a confession of Him before men.
     
  10. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    1 Peter 3:20-21, 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.

    21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience before God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
     
  11. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

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    I was saved after a visitation by the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes afterward I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. A little later I was baptized in water. This was the order, though not important, that Cornelius and his group experienced God.

    Those in Acts chapter 19 were baptized in water before being baptized in the Holy Spirit, again order is unimportant.

    I've never understood all the turmoil and religious hoopla over water baptism. Just obey and get on with your growth in God.

    I have relatives that are obsessed about water baptism because of the denomination they cling to. They're more interested in getting people baptized than saved seeing many of them are not born again, a new creation.

    Dead debominations baptize (wash) babies to my continual Horrification as if they were saved. As if baptism saves. The simplest things of scripture are complicated exponentially by man's creations - man's, the denominations.
     
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  12. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    Religious people just refuse to see that what they do based on religious works will not save them. Jesus said it was impossible for a man to save himself by what he does. But the religious mind refuses to believe Jesus' words. Salvation has only been made possible by the work of God (Jesus) on the cross and there is no salvation unless a person believes and places their faith in His work.

    Jesus said you study the scriptures because you think they will save you but you refuse to come to Him so that He can save you.

    Tell me, you religious people who think you are doing the things that will save you, who saved the Jews from Pharaoh's army? Did the Jews build a dam to hold back the waters? Did they do religious works to make the waters part? Did they do rituals to make the waters part.

    NO!!!!, God did it all. The Jews did nothing but see the work of God. Men in Israel saw the work of God on the cross but they refused it for themselves. Today people are to place their faith in His work on the cross and not in their religious works and rituals.

    Jesus did it all and it was finished. Salvation belongs to our God, Jesus Christ and that is the message He gave Paul for us. Only faith in His works will save a person.
     
  13. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    But how does that pertain to you, personally?

    Knowledge about God is not salvation. The proof of salvation, personally, is to walk as Jesus walked.

    We can't take credit for believing in miracles or what Jesus has done for ALL men. But we can enter into Him by faith. THAT is salvation for the individual.

    Jesus was resurrected to give us His life. Those that receive that miraculous life are walking IN His salvation.

    What can we say about a people who claim to be saved yet are in unbelief as to the grace provision of God to walk in this new life from above?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  14. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    So you advocate trying to be like God. Seems to me that that is what Satan told Eve. But you try to say my faith in His work on the cross is not real until I do something to prove it. God sees the heart and knows those that believe Him. The child of God does not have to prove anything to man.

    Well, you are not my judge and I do not have to satisfy you to make it real. All you want to do is to try and make people lose their faith in Jesus' work on the cross and place it in what they do. IMHO, that can only come from Satan.
     
  15. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    We are to be as God by walking with God. We are to be perfect as God is perfect. You will deny this of course. And that is because you are using only yourself as the measuring rod. You do not have Christ as your measure. At least not yet...We are to be as Jesus in this world. We are to be as the light He is. You have no biblical support for your ideas. But I can quote you the standard of Christ all day. Will this convince you? Of course not. God must show you...if He wants to show you your error that is.
    I believe in your belief about Jesus. But this is not salvation as per Jesus Himself. It isn't enough to believe ABOUT Jesus. You need to enter INTO Jesus to do as He did. THAT is the salvation of the gospel. The gospel is according to POWER. That power is called grace.
    I agree with you on this. But a person who seems to want to teach others should do so according to an actual walk that is described in the bible. So then your testimony must reflect the salvation conditions put forth in the gospel.

    Teachers will be judged harder. So don't get sensitive about being received as a teacher...without being open to defend what you say with something from Christ Himself.

    Well you will have to cover more ground than that to be a teacher. For instance a person might have learned to add numbers together...but that doesn't make them a math teacher. Do you see what I'm saying? If you are a math teacher then multiplication and division shouldn't be offensive to you. No math teacher defends himself by saying...I just want to be sure that everyone can add.

    Of course salvation is not by works. If you were to look deeper into this you would see that the truth is that it is usually the ones who cry out..works, works....these are the ones who have no idea what grace is.
     
  16. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    AMEN!!!
     
  17. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    *** So you are the teacher and I am not. I bet your pride made you say this.

    You do not see me as a teacher then you do not see Paul as a teacher. Paul wrote what I posted to start this thread but obviously you have to add your works to what Paul wrote. Paul said nothing about our having to be like Christ when he wrote THE GOSPEL..

    No, a religious person's works and walk is faith in his/her walking in their works and not Jesus' work on the cross.

    All you are doing is trying to elevate your self above others. You do it to me because I teach that Jesus is the author and finisher of our salvation.

    But you claim you are the one saved because of your being like Christ. You don't know me or my faith and sometime in the futures God will tell you about it.

    You don't like what I teach because it doesn't give you the glory of claiming to be like Christ. Have you put on your robes with gold trim and your pointed hat made of gold?
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
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  18. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    From your perspective that's all you can possibly think. But to be a good teacher one must first be a good student. A person who is unteachable ....is never a good teacher.
    I have to assume here that you are not a student of the bible.

    Col. 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

    The whole point of the gospel is to take on the power that makes us just like Jesus. To miss that is to miss everything.

    It was Paul that said...

    I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
    - Galatians 1:6-8
    Nice try. I am elevating Christ and His power above the false assumptions of men. The very beginning of our salvation is a new spiritual birth in Zion where we walk with Jesus in the light. There is no finishing of a salvation that isn't from God.

    I am saying that it is grace that makes us like Jesus. And this grace teaches us to also become like Jesus. The whole purpose of grace is to walk as Jesus walked.

    The grace of God is the power OVER sin. Not just the effects of sin. Sin is a power in the flesh. But grace is a power that is over all things in this world. That is because grace gives us access to God and His strength. So then I advocate a miraculous walk by the power that raised Jesus from the dead...which very few have experienced in our time. People will react to this in various stages of unbelief. But that doesn't take an ounce away from the truth of it.

    Hopefully the Spirit will guide you into understanding and experiencing what I am speaking to you of.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  19. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    ah sorry, that is belief, not faith. not saying it is a bad belief, but it does not describe faith iow

    7Little children, let no one deceive you! The one who believes what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous.
     
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  20. tooldtocare

    tooldtocare Active Member

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    I understand that some people believe Jesus died to cleans our soul of sin but to believe He died to wash away your sins is self-serving.

    I must add that Jesus was a very caring and kind person; even the most righteous but the simple truth is Jesus was put to death on the cross for all to see because Jesus was preaching from the verses as stated in the one Bible which we now call the Old Testament. In those verses it documented the terrible things the Israelite's had done in the past and for this the local rabbi’s convinced the Romans to kill Jesus to shut His mouth for good; so it was done.

    This is how I remember it.

    I could be wrong but I think not
     
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