THE GOSPELS ARE NOT NEW TESTAMENT

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
1,452
327
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.


The gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) are not new testament gospels.

Hebrews 9:17 clearly states that the new testament did not take effect until the death of the Lord Jesus Christ. A testament is not in force while testator is alive.

Jesus, in all the gospels, was alive during his earthly ministry. In all these gospels, it is still old testament. Jesus is still upholding the law. Jesus was not crucified, dead, buried, and risen, until the end of these gospels. Matthew 5:17 Matthew 19:17

In the gospels, Jesus is ministering to Israel. Jesus, and the twelve Apostles, are preaching the gospel of the kingdom to Israel. The gospel of the kingdom is that, the prophetic, Davidic, kingdom on earth, promised to Israel, was at hand. Matthew 4:23 Matthew 8:11 Luke 1:32

In the gospels, Jesus would shed his blood to establish the new testament with Israel: therefore, it could be said, that the gospels are transitional, in that, Jesus brings in the change from old testament, to new.
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I agree.

Jesus time on the earth was under Mosaic law and he came to Israel, Gentiles.

When he spoke about the church it was prophetic, not to the church.

He initiated the church of the end of the Gospels.

The Old Testament did not start under Israel. He gave the history leading up to Israel, the start of Israel and then the progression of the history of Israel.

The Bible is historical flow of the dispensations of God.

God's revelation to man changed in the Bible from one dispensation to another.

I know some don't like the word dispensation, but even those that wish to call it something else recognize God's revelation changed over time. But not in a smooth continuous flow.

From creation to Adam and Eve being removed from the garden there was one reality. When removed there was a big reality change.

Next big change came with Israel, specifically under Moses.

Next came with the cross, which ushered in the church.

The next will come with the rapture which will usher in the return of Israel and the rule of Christ.

Then the destruction of the heavens and the earth, resulting in eternity.

As for covenants/testaments there was first conscience, where the individual had law of God in their hearts but there was no nation.

Then Israel was created with a new covenant. It was not in place of conscience but in addition to it.

Then the covenant of blood stated by Christ at the Last Supper.

Next will be the new covenant to the house of Israel and Judah were Israel will be restored as covenant people and nation.

At the end of time the covenants will cease but the unique groups of people will still be there in their places in eternity.

Israel did not exist before Jacob. Israel is not sure and church is not. But in the body of Christ Israel and church are joined as two heirs.

The Old Testament calls Israel the wife of God. Meaning the Father. New Testament calls church the bride of Christ, the incarnate second person of the Trinity.

The Bible is full of more information than many realize.

And here I agree the Gospels are not part of the New Testament.
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Hebrews 9:17 clearly states that the new testament did not take effect until the death of the Lord Jesus Christ. A testament is not in force while testator is alive.
Yes. Technically this is true. But it does not override the fact that New Testament teachings were already given by Christ at the very beginning of His ministry. Therefore Mark begins his Gospel thus: The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes. Technically this is true. But it does not override the fact that New Testament teachings were already given by Christ at the very beginning of His ministry. Therefore Mark begins his Gospel thus: The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Christ announced the new blood covenant at the Last Supper. He did so making it fully known he had to die on the cross before it took effect.

The gospel is not the covenant but the teaching of how to enter into the covenant.

Just like the Old Testament taught about the blood covenant to come. But none of the Old Testament saints receive the blood until the resurrection.

As well, just as the new covenant to the houses as the Israel and Judah was announced 2000 years ago but has not come into effect even now.

Announcing something prophetically does not mean that some immediate reality, such as the incarnation of the second person of the Trinity in the flesh of Christ, announced thousands of years before the reality.
 

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
11,696
5,575
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I suppose this could be looked at both ways...and rightly so, Jesus is all things to both: the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.

"Bring me a sword." So a sword was brought before the king. And the king said, "Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one and half to the other." 1 Kings 3:24-25
 
  • Like
Reactions: Windmillcharge

Windmillcharge

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2017
2,934
1,823
113
68
London
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Splitting hairs, the gospels teach us about Jesaus and salvation. That is 'Good News' ie the gospel.
So what about some occured before Jesus died.

It is still the message of salvation.
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
1,452
327
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I agree.

Jesus time on the earth was under Mosaic law and he came to Israel, Gentiles.

When he spoke about the church it was prophetic, not to the church.

He initiated the church of the end of the Gospels.

The Old Testament did not start under Israel. He gave the history leading up to Israel, the start of Israel and then the progression of the history of Israel.

The Bible is historical flow of the dispensations of God.

God's revelation to man changed in the Bible from one dispensation to another.

I know some don't like the word dispensation, but even those that wish to call it something else recognize God's revelation changed over time. But not in a smooth continuous flow.

From creation to Adam and Eve being removed from the garden there was one reality. When removed there was a big reality change.

Next big change came with Israel, specifically under Moses.

Next came with the cross, which ushered in the church.

The next will come with the rapture which will usher in the return of Israel and the rule of Christ.

Then the destruction of the heavens and the earth, resulting in eternity.

As for covenants/testaments there was first conscience, where the individual had law of God in their hearts but there was no nation.

Then Israel was created with a new covenant. It was not in place of conscience but in addition to it.

Then the covenant of blood stated by Christ at the Last Supper.

Next will be the new covenant to the house of Israel and Judah were Israel will be restored as covenant people and nation.

At the end of time the covenants will cease but the unique groups of people will still be there in their places in eternity.

Israel did not exist before Jacob. Israel is not sure and church is not. But in the body of Christ Israel and church are joined as two heirs.

The Old Testament calls Israel the wife of God. Meaning the Father. New Testament calls church the bride of Christ, the incarnate second person of the Trinity.

The Bible is full of more information than many realize.

And here I agree the Gospels are not part of the New Testament.

Hello
I would only make one point for your consideration.
I see the bride of Christ as being the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven for Israel to enter during the Davidic kingdom on earth. Revelation 21
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
1,452
327
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes. Technically this is true. But it does not override the fact that New Testament teachings were already given by Christ at the very beginning of His ministry. Therefore Mark begins his Gospel thus: The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Hello
Yes I agree.
Christ, in his earthly ministry, was preparing Israel for the Davidic kingdom on earth.
The gospels also reveal(for us as well) how Israel was to accept him as the Messiah, the Son of God, and to believe in his name for eternal life.
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
1,452
327
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Splitting hairs, the gospels teach us about Jesaus and salvation. That is 'Good News' ie the gospel.
So what about some occured before Jesus died.

It is still the message of salvation.

Hello
It really is not splitting hairs because salvation depends on believing the gospel.

The gospels give witness that Jesus is Messiah, Son of God.
The Jews had to believe in the name of Jesus, they had to believe he is Messiah, Son of God.
They had to believe the gospel of the kingdom, Jesus would establish his kingdom on earth.

That is not our gospel.
Paul was given the gospel of grace, which we are to believe. Paul preached the cross.


This is the gospel by which we are saved. The complete work of Christ by his cross. The complete salvation Christ accomplished by his death and resurrection. Christ died for our sins.

15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

1 Corinthians 15

We are all sinners who can not save ourselves.

See Romans 3:23 Titus 3:5 Romans 5:6

Christ died for our sins; He was our substitute, He paid the full penalty and debt for our sin by his blood sacrifice.

See 2 Corinthians 5:21 Romans 3:24 Romans 3:25 Romans 3:26

He was buried.

He rose again for our justification ( to declare us righteous) and forgiveness of all our sin. He gives us His righteousness and eternal life.

See Romans 4:25 Ephesians 1:7 Romans 4:22 Romans 4:23 Romans 4:24 1 Corinthians 1:30

All we have to do is believe the gospel.

See Romans 4:5 1 Corinthians 1:21 Ephesians 1:13

Believing is being persuaded that something is true.

See Romans 4:21

The moment you believe you have eternal life.

Titus 1:1 Titus 1:2 Titus 3:7

Trust the gospel of your salvation. Place your faith in Jesus Christ, in his blood, his death and his resurrection.
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I suppose this could be looked at both ways...and rightly so, Jesus is all things to both: the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.

"Bring me a sword." So a sword was brought before the king. And the king said, "Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one and half to the other." 1 Kings 3:24-25
Hello
I would only make one point for your consideration.
I see the bride of Christ as being the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven for Israel to enter during the Davidic kingdom on earth. Revelation 21

The new Jerusalem is a city that houses the bride. The city in one sense is the buildings and in another people.

Verses have been posted stating the church is the bride.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doug

Windmillcharge

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2017
2,934
1,823
113
68
London
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
It really is not splitting hairs because salvation depends on believing the gospel.

Yes but the gospel, like trinity, and dinosaur is not a biblical term and what one calls the gospels really has nothing to do with how one evangelises, preaches or responds to the message.

That is why it is pointless splitting hairs.
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
1,452
327
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes but the gospel, like trinity, and dinosaur is not a biblical term and what one calls the gospels really has nothing to do with how one evangelises, preaches or responds to the message.

That is why it is pointless splitting hairs.

Hello
In my Bible (KJV) gospel occurs 101 times.

Here is just one;

And there they preached the gospel. Acts 14:7
 
  • Like
Reactions: CoreIssue

Windmillcharge

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2017
2,934
1,823
113
68
London
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Hello
In my Bible (KJV) gospel occurs 101 times.

Here is just one;

And there they preached the gospel. Acts 14:7

See post 13 I have realised my error in this.

That said the mere fact that the 'bible' talks about the gospel makes your arguement pointless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
1,452
327
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You are saying the gospel is not new testiment. That is not what your post quoted above says.

Hello
I was not saying the gospel was not new testament.

I was saying the "Gospels"....the books in the Bible called "the Gospels"....Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not new testament.

But it is also true that the gospel for the dispensation of grace is found only in Paul's epistles. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
well, so you say anyway, yes, but after all that is Paul

"it's like thisss,
and like that;
and like this and like that and like this..."
 
D

Dave L

Guest
“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine [teaching] of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.” (2 John 9–11)