The Great Tribulation

[WalterandDebbie]

Sunday 12-18-22 1st. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Kislev 23, 5783 86th. Fall Day

Have anyone figured out what Jesus was talking about in Matthew Twenty Four:21, after reading verses 4 through 26?

Matthew 24:1-26

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Read full chapter

 

[ScottA]

Sunday 12-18-22 1st. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Kislev 23, 5783 86th. Fall Day

Have anyone figured out what Jesus was talking about in Matthew Twenty Four:21, after reading verses 4 through 26?

Matthew 24:1-26

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Read full chapter

Tribulations come to all who have ever lived and will ever live. Jesus defined a greater tribulation than any one person has or would ever experience...which can only be answered one way--by definition, there can be no greater tribulation than all the tribulation combined that was put upon Christ.

When was that?

 

[MatthewG]

@WalterandDebbie Ha! You found the scripture that came to my mind before, with all this discussion here in Matthew 24. I love that the fact that this would be a one time deal, which deals with the last days of the Mosaic Covenant, with the false prophet, beat, and the devil would be done away with!

It is terrible but also very commendable those who first trust in Christ (Ephesians 1:1-12), had went through such a great tribulation with people killing them in the name of Christ! That is what gets missed sometimes in this day in age, because it's all about our modern world now today, and doesn't deal with the facts at hand, with the judgement of the nation of Israel and those 12 tribes that lived with-in those confines, along with the second temple having been destroyed.

Never will there ever be again such a dreadful time for Christians.

Yes, Hitler, Stalin, and people have done some things, but the worst part thinking about the Nation of Israel is they would kill their own for not - obeying what they said. They killed their own King, and the judgement was going to be - the Wrath of God would DESTROY EVERYTHING THEIR HEAVEN AND EARTH!

The Lamentations I was reading yesterday, that was just the first time (580ish bc) God had destroyed the temple. He was justified in what He had happen then, I believe he used the Romans to carry out his purpose with Nero being the antichrist, and from 67-70AD, a lot of terrible things happened to those first century christians!

It is amazing how easily we can complain now days, when you are not even getting killed for say " I stand for the Lord Jesus Christ " - which in that day made you A TARGET to be killed. Still standing for Christ may have others look down on you cause you may smell like death to them, but those who love to hear, may find that you smell of a sweet flavor.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Sunday 12-18-22 1st. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Kislev 23, 5783 86th. Fall Day

Have anyone figured out what Jesus was talking about in Matthew Twenty Four:21, after reading verses 4 through 26?

Matthew 24:1-26

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Read full chapter

This did not happen in 70 AD. Although death of possibly over 1 million Jews was great, it is not anything like what the world has in store for it. This coming Great Tribulation has never happened in history. It involves the entire planet. Billions will die. In the 20th Century, more people died in wars than in the previous 19 combined. Still it would account for 2% of the population at most a time. This GT kills just in one phase, 25% of the population (2 billion). Then 1/3 of the remainder. That is over 4+ billion from wars, pestilence, earthquakes, possible surper volcanic eruptions, an asteroid, fire from above, 100 LB hailstones, demon locusts that torture mankind for 5 months, nuclear fallout poisoning the water supplies, tsunamis that wipe out 1/3 of all ships, 1/3 of the planet on fire ... JUDGMENT DAY. The NEW WORLD ORDER HAS ALREADY BEEN ENACTED. Antichrist has not been revealed yet. The Four Horses of the Apocalypse have already left the barn and likely the next major war will involve ten nations that come against Israel, likely nuclea Iran. This will cause famine to that portion of the world and likely chaos in most of the world. We are now just hanging on a thread. Get ready ... I'm sorry, one can't really get ready for that other than having faith in Jesus.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Tribulations come to all who have ever lived and will ever live. Jesus defined a greater tribulation than any one person has or would ever experience...which can only be answered one way--by definition, there can be no greater tribulation than all the tribulation combined that was put upon Christ.

When was that?

Hello Scott, Good point, The OP is what I woke up with sitting in a chair at the computer wondering why The Great Tribulation that He spoke about, answering the questions in verse 3, do you see what I'm talking about?

What I can see is many people are accepting that it has three raptures, Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, and Post-Trib, but the scripture shows The Great Tribulation, and also in 1 Thessalonians Four:13-18

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

​

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


Walter

 

[ScottA]

Hello Scott, Good point, The OP is what I woke up with sitting in a chair at the computer wondering why The Great Tribulation that He spoke about, answering the questions in verse 3, do you see what I'm talking about?

What I can see is many people are accepting that it has three raptures, Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, and Post-Trib, but the scripture shows The Great Tribulation, and also in 1 Thessalonians Four:13-18

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18​

​

​

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


Walter

If you are just saying that there is only one great tribulation and only one [so called] rapture, that is true. And yet there are two narratives, one from the perspective of the world (and time) giving the impression that they are different and separate, and the other from the eternal perspective of God where it is actually one and the same event.

Paul in speaking also to the Corinthians elaborated the worldly narrative to clarify, saying, "but each one in his own order", meaning literally each single person in their own time. Jesus also clarified, saying "But many who are first will be last, and the last first", and "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me." When in the greater reality of God the times of men are not a factor, for it also is written, "our old man was crucified with Him."

 

[WalterandDebbie]

If you are just saying that there is only one great tribulation and only one [so called] rapture, that is true. And yet there are two narratives, one from the perspective of the world (and time) giving the impression that they are different and separate, and the other from the eternal perspective of God where it is actually one and the same event.

Paul in speaking also to the Corinthians elaborated the worldly narrative to clarify, saying, "but each one in his own order", meaning literally each single person in their own time. Jesus also clarified, saying "But many who are first will be last, and the last first", and "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me." When in the greater reality of God the times of men are not a factor, for it also is written, "our old man was crucified with Him."

Yes Scott, you are correct thank you for your input.

Walter