The Heaven Going Lie

[Hiddenthings]

Interesting we have 50 / 50 split as to whether people believe they go to heaven when they die.

What are the implications for those who are wrong?

The “wrong” belief must have consequences in terms of how people live in this life - some view their walk as a probation in faith tested while others believe in automatic acceptance.

Would teaching about going to heaven have a greater impact on those who hold mistaken beliefs about the afterlife than on those who believe in the resurrection of the whole person?

If someone is wrong about going to heaven, this could provoke fear, anxiety, and urgent reflection, challenging their assumptions about salvation, judgment, and reward. If God were to raise them from the dead, they might become defensive, having neither fully known nor believed in this reality. If a person lived with false confidence and did not struggle to conform to Christ its possible they could be rejected as not knowing Christ and vice versa.

Conversely, if a person’s belief about going to heaven is correct, then the instant anyone faces this reality, their expectations regarding salvation or judgment would immediately be fulfilled, leaving no further uncertainty or anticipation.

I’m interested in people’s perspectives on how being right or wrong about the afterlife affects a believer’s life and the consequences of these beliefs.

 

[Marilyn C]

And what of this experience - where do you get your information which you ascribe to this event?


Correct

Correct.

I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge your Lords teaching in Matt 5-7 is for you!

1. I received the information from God`s word about the third heaven. That is where the angels and God reside. The second heaven is the Universe where are the stars etc., and the first heaven above us is the atmospheric heavens where planes and birds fly.

2. Matt. 5-7 as I said preciously is the Lord speaking to the people of Israel telling them that God requires more than what the Scribes and Pharisees do. God looks on the heart motivation. That then would make the people realize how sinful they are and call out to God for mercy.

I know from God`s word that Jesus gave the Law to Israel to reveal their sinfulness and to lead them to Himself, His sacrifice for them. And now as a believer in the Body of Christ I am not under the Law and am so thankful to Jesus for paying the price of my redemption. I now have Christ`s righteousness.

`But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God - and righteousness and sanctification and redemption...` (1 Cor. 1: 20)

These the people of Isreal did not have as they were before the cross. They were still under the Law.

 

[Hiddenthings]

1. I received the information from God`s word about the third heaven. That is where the angels and God reside. The second heaven is the Universe where are the stars etc., and the first heaven above us is the atmospheric heavens where planes and birds fly.

I'm asking where in the Bible did you get this?

2. Matt. 5-7 as I said preciously is the Lord speaking to the people of Israel telling them that God requires more than what the Scribes and Pharisees do. God looks on the heart motivation. That then would make the people realize how sinful they are and call out to God for mercy.

I know from God`s word that Jesus gave the Law to Israel to reveal their sinfulness and to lead them to Himself, His sacrifice for them. And now as a believer in the Body of Christ I am not under the Law and am so thankful to Jesus for paying the price of my redemption. I now have Christ`s righteousness.

You mean God through an Angel gave the Law to Israel, right? No different to God giving the Revelation to Jesus Christ in Rev 1:1

Careful reading Marilyn!

`But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God - and righteousness and sanctification and redemption...` (1 Cor. 1: 20)

These the people of Isreal did not have as they were before the cross. They were still under the Law.

All the faithful throughout all time are reconciled in Christ through his death and resurrection. The same Spirit Word which Jesus taught the disciples is the same teaching he reinforced here:

John 15:14 "you are my friends if you do whatsoever I command you"

Is the Sermon on the Mount Jesus' commandments?

 

[Hiddenthings]

I know from God`s word that Jesus gave the Law to Israel to reveal their sinfulness and to lead them to Himself, His sacrifice for them. And now as a believer in the Body of Christ I am not under the Law and am so thankful to Jesus for paying the price of my redemption. I now have Christ`s righteousness.

It's subtle how pre-existence teaching can crept into our language without questioning it.

Acts 7:53 is your section of text to learn from!

Acts 7:53, Stephen believed “You who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it.”

The Greek word “diatagas” translated as “disposition” signifies an “ordinance”, carrying the sense of a constitution or arrangement. The NIV renders it as “the law that was put into effect by angels,” while the NEB reads “the law as God’s angels gave it to you.”

When Moses received the Law, he did not see the great Increate (God) directly, but encountered an angelic representative (Num. 12:8; Exod. 20:1; Gal. 3:19; Heb. 2:2; Acts 7:38). In contrast, in the case of God’s own Son, the situation was entirely different (Heb. 1:1–2). The Son was elevated to serve as the direct medium of the divine will, described as the “Word made flesh” (John 1:14).

Though Christ was in the Mind of God (Logos) he was yet to be given existence...hence God's use of Angels.

 

[Marilyn C]

I'm asking where in the Bible did you get this?

You mean God through an Angel gave the Law to Israel, right? No different to God giving the Revelation to Jesus Christ in Rev 1:1

Careful reading Marilyn!

All the faithful throughout all time are reconciled in Christ through his death and resurrection. The same Spirit Word which Jesus taught the disciples is the same teaching he reinforced here:

John 15:14 "you are my friends if you do whatsoever I command you"

Is the Sermon on the Mount Jesus' commandments?

The Third heaven. `I know a man....such a one was caught up to the THIRD heaven.` (2 Cor. 12: 2)

The Celestial and Atmospheric heavens. (Gen. 1: 16 & 17, James 5: 18)

We are saved by trusting in Jesus` finished work on the cross, His righteousness, not any righteousness we try to get by obeying the commandments. You are continually looking at what Jesus told the people of Israel, who were under the Law. We, the believers in the Body of Christ are NOT under the law. Because we believe in Jesus` finished work, Jesus fulfilling the law and dying for us, we are righteous, (have fulfilled the law)

 

[Marilyn C]

The Son was elevated to serve as the direct medium of the divine will, described as the “Word made flesh” (John 1:14).

Though Christ was in the Mind of God (Logos) he was yet to be given existence...hence God's use of Angels.

Pre-existent Jesus.

`Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly I say to you, Before Abraham was, I AM. " (John 8: 58)
`I Jesus, ....I am the root of David and the Offspring...` (Rev. 22: 16)

Your comments `the Son elevated`.....Christ in the Mind of God..` are similar to JW`s false teachings. As this is your foundation which is false then what you say will only be error.

Thus, I will leave the discussion.

 

[Hiddenthings]

The Third heaven. `I know a man....such a one was caught up to the THIRD heaven.` (2 Cor. 12: 2)

The Celestial and Atmospheric heavens. (Gen. 1: 16 & 17, James 5: 18)

What I was asking is where did you get your literal interpretation from? I know it's symbolic of something which will take place but for some reason you have interpreted it as literal.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Pre-existent Jesus.

`Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly I say to you, Before Abraham was, I AM. " (John 8: 58)
`I Jesus, ....I am the root of David and the Offspring...` (Rev. 22: 16)

Good quotes!

Abraham rejoice to see Jesus' day and was glad which speaks to the faith of Abraham seeing afar off not that Jesus alive at the time of Abaraham. Your second quote teaches you about Jesus' origins being of David in his lineage.