The hereafter ?

[twinc]

what did and do the Jews and Judaism accept and believe about the after life/reincarnation etc - twinc

 

[Job]

I don't know...clue me in.

 

[Helen]

I don't know...clue me in.

Ditto...I have no idea...

 

[twinc]

Ditto...I have no idea...

it seems all I say is mostly not liked or acceptable - so might I suggest if interested why not find out for oneself and let me and us know - twinc

 

[Helen]

it seems all I say is mostly not liked or acceptable - so might I suggest if interested why not find out for oneself and let me and us know - twinc

Sorry Jim
No offence intended. I just thought that you knew, and wanted to share it with us and tell us all about it.

 

[amadeus]

it seems all I say is mostly not liked or acceptable - so might I suggest if interested why not find out for oneself and let me and us know - twinc

Twinc I am praying for you and your situation.

All of us have down times and all of us in our flesh don't like it when no one seems to appreciate our words or even always criticizes them or perhaps worse ignores them. You have held onto God for many years in spite of these things. You and I may not agree on many things, but I believe that you do love God. Stand for what you believe and ask God to help you always be right in His eyes. Does not that matter more than what anyone else thinks or says?

"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." Matt 5:10-12

 

[ScottA]

what did and do the Jews and Judaism accept and believe about the after life/reincarnation etc - twinc

It would be interesting to hear from a present-day mainstream Jew.

Biblically, they waited for Messiah, but did not recognize Him when He came, and therefore, look for another. Some believed in the resurrection, some did not.

 

[bbyrd009]

pretty sure that also obtains today, and Jews are as divided as we are. Dunno about "50,000 perpetually splintering denominations," lol, but similar.

 

[amadeus]

pretty sure that also obtains today, and Jews are as divided as we are. Dunno about "50,000 perpetually splintering denominations," lol, but similar.

I have no personal experience with it, but my dear old pastor [now 92] has traveled to Israel more than 30 times since 1962 when he made his first trip. He explains that that sects within Judaism are more numerous today than they were, according to what we are able tell from scripture, during in period when Jesus walked there as a man of flesh. Within the Jewish set of beliefs they go from very conservative to very liberal and the differences are notable according to the way they dress and the way they live and worship God. My pastor has a continuing connection with a family of Jews who believe that Jesus was the Messiah, and he is their only strong connection to other Christian believers. While he talks about it, probably due to his age and his frailty he'll never make another trip but he still contacts them periodically by telephone.

 

[bbyrd009]

I have no personal experience with it, but my dear old pastor [now 92] has traveled to Israel more than 30 times since 1962 when he made his first trip. He explains that that sects within Judaism are more numerous today than they were, according to what we are able tell from scripture, during in period when Jesus walked there as a man of flesh. Within the Jewish set of beliefs they go from very conservative to very liberal and the differences are notable according to the way they dress and the way they live and worship God. My pastor has a continuing connection with a family of Jews who believe that Jesus was the Messiah, and he is their only strong connection to other Christian believers. While he talks about it, probably due to his age and his frailty he'll never make another trip but he still contacts them periodically by telephone.

yes. There are Jews in Jeru sacrificing and trying to breed Red Heifers, and there are Jews who are protesting Muslim Apartheid, and everything in between. Luckily, most devout Jews are frustrated professors anyway, and if you just go to the Wall, all the way to the left, you can walk in, and there are three rooms full of Jews anxious to teach anyone open to learning. A little bit of innocent deception, along the lines of "i am very interested in this," (assuming you smell like money, of course) will open doors that cannot be believed

 

[bbyrd009]

I have no personal experience with it, but my dear old pastor [now 92] has traveled to Israel more than 30 times since 1962 when he made his first trip. He explains that that sects within Judaism are more numerous today than they were, according to what we are able tell from scripture, during in period when Jesus walked there as a man of flesh. Within the Jewish set of beliefs they go from very conservative to very liberal and the differences are notable according to the way they dress and the way they live and worship God. My pastor has a continuing connection with a family of Jews who believe that Jesus was the Messiah, and he is their only strong connection to other Christian believers. While he talks about it, probably due to his age and his frailty he'll never make another trip but he still contacts them periodically by telephone.

i'm sure a similar experience might be had at a local synagogue, maybe...personally i would recommend (for you) going to a Mosque, or actually better would be a "lapsed" Muslim acquaintance...but i say this because a Jew could not embarrass/shame you no matter how long they talked, whereas a Muslim could, without saying a word. that came out wrong i guess lol

anyway, i am being...if you went to a local Mosque right now, whenever, you would not even have to go in, the guy you need will be out front

 

[amadeus]

yes. There are Jews in Jeru sacrificing and trying to breed Red Heifers,

Yes, I have heard of these "Red Heifer" efforts. There are so many details involved in prophecy and its fulfillment. People work hard at times to make it be, but will God ultimately use them and their efforts. It could happen, but how can we know?

and there are Jews who are protesting Muslim Apartheid, and everything in between. Luckily, most devout Jews are frustrated professors anyway, and if you just go to the Wall, all the way to the left, you can walk in, and there are three rooms full of Jews anxious to teach anyone open to learning. A little bit of innocent deception, along the lines of "i am very interested in this," (assuming you smell like money, of course) will open doors that cannot be believed

There was a time that I thought I might make to Israel before my time here is finished, but becomes more and more unlikely as I grow older and physically more frail. But... God started Moses in his confrontational role with Pharaoh and his leadership through the wilderness at the age of 80. Why compared to that I am a youngster not even 74.

 

[amadeus]

i'm sure a similar experience might be had at a local synagogue, maybe...personally i would recommend (for you) going to a Mosque, or actually better would be a "lapsed" Muslim acquaintance...but i say this because a Jew could not embarrass/shame you no matter how long they talked, whereas a Muslim could, without saying a word. that came out wrong i guess lol

anyway, i am being...if you went to a local Mosque right now, whenever, you would not even have to go in, the guy you need will be out front

While my wife lives I am too burdened with her care and my pastor's care to do much away from home... but I remain open to God's leading. I remember Paul writing about how a spouse can hinder a person's service of God. For me that has not happened. On the contrary most of my most extreme changes in my beliefs and in my physical moves have come not directly from God to me, but via my wife.

My second hindrance or binding is of course my pastor. When we moved 50 miles closer to the assembly where we attend services regularly it was in part because God impressed on us the need to care for him and his wife. His wife has been gone now for 5 years. While my pastor lives God has bound me to him to support him in both physical and spiritual needs. Until I am relieved in this I remain here close to him and his congregation.

If he were to die, my wife would go with me when and where she could, but while younger than me her health is poor and would likely limit her participation which would limit my own. However, I won't say yea or nay while it is still today and it is as is. God holds any tomorrows that remain.

 

[twinc]

While my wife lives I am too burdened with her care and my pastor's care to do much away from home... but I remain open to God's leading. I remember Paul writing about how a spouse can hinder a person's service of God. For me that has not happened. On the contrary most of my most extreme changes in my beliefs and in my physical moves have come not directly from God to me, but via my wife.

My second hindrance or binding is of course my pastor. When we moved 50 miles closer to the assembly where we attend services regularly it was in part because God impressed on us the need to care for him and his wife. His wife has been gone now for 5 years. While my pastor lives God has bound me to him to support him in both physical and spiritual needs. Until I am relieved in this I remain here close to him and his congregation.

If he were to die, my wife would go with me when and where she could, but while younger than me her health is poor and would likely limit her participation which would limit my own. However, I won't say yea or nay while it is still today and it is as is. God holds any tomorrows that remain.

tell you what - why not google and then tell us your understanding or conclusions - twinc

 

[Helen]

tell you what - why not google and then tell us your understanding or conclusions - twinc

WHY!!

That is very rude...Amadeus spent time putting up and good post..and you answer like that! Why don't you do the same?
YOU are the one who started this thread...then as usual you opt out of it!!
You are the driver here, we are but the passengers.
You can google it and then tell us all about it!

 

[amadeus]

@twinc
I don't like to google for answers regarding the ways of God, but I've done it this one time. I took a copy of the first one I found:

taken from https://reformjudaism.org/judaism-what-believed-happen-someone-after-they-die

Judaism has from the Torah itself always spoken of a life following this one. The Torah speaks about what seems to be a physical place, called Sheol, to which one "goes down" following this life. A variety of different passages indicate that Sheol was probably though of as located in the center of the earth, although it is no ever formally described. What is clear is that this was a well-known concept amongst the ancient Israelites.

It was not until the Pharisees (c. 100 B.C.E.) that the notion of a spiritual life after death developed in any meaningful way in Jewish thought. The Pharisees, who were the forerunners of the rabbis, taught that when the Torah spoke of reward for following God's ways, the reward would be forthcoming in an afterlife, Olam Ha-Ba (world to come), as they called it.

They further taught that there would be an end of time as we know it, ushered in by the Messiah, and at that time, bodily resurrection would occur (Hebrew, T'chiyat Ha-Metim). While this teaching was an innovation, they insisted that it was rooted in Torah, and quoted extensive proof-texts to make their case. The Pharisees never saw themselves as creating anything new, but unfolding and uncovering that which was already existent but not yet manifest. And while this teaching was of enormous importance, they approached the development of Jewish life as we know it today with this teaching as an ever present backdrop, but not as a primary concern. They consciously chose to de-emphasize the importance of resurrection, favoring the observance of Mitzvot for their own sake. The classic text regarding this matter is paraphrased as follows: "Do not be as ones who labor for their master mindful of the reward that will be coming, but rather as those who serve their master with love and with joy" - the fuller understanding being that if we keep our eyes on the reward, and not the task, we'll never earn the reward. To that end, while there is a good deal in our tradition that refers to life after our deaths in this realm, it is not systematized, and therefore open to much interpretation.

Reform Judaism, while not taking any "official" position on the matter, has for the most part ignored the question, and tended towards the belief that there is no such thing. The attitude of Judaism might best be summed up as "We really do not know, but if there is a life after this one, and a reward for what we do, then surely it will be dependent upon the kind of life we have lived - therefore, let us strive to follow God's path for us as closely and as enthusiastically as possible, for then we will surely know all manner of rewards, especially the one of seeing a world that is a better place for our efforts".

 

[amadeus]

@twinc

I've shown in post #16 what I encountered following your suggestion, but I don't get my understanding from Judaism nor am I able to draw any conclusions from it. Perhaps that makes me obtuse, but that is where I am on it. I cannot give what I do not have. Now I have done what you asked and have answered as best I can. Are you going to do the same?

 

[bbyrd009]

@twinc
I don't like to google for answers regarding the ways of God, but I've done it this one time. I took a copy of the first one I found:

taken from https://reformjudaism.org/judaism-what-believed-happen-someone-after-they-die

nice. i said earlier that a Jew could not convict you, but this convicts me to say that that is not entirely true, either. While both--really i guess all three--groups are very legalist, this is most apparent among the devout; but being Anarchist i fairly strictly avoided the devout anyway, and i am also humbled by many of the practices of the 'lapsed' Jews as well, even if many other practices are maddening.

a point i wanted to make here though is that about as many Jews and Muslims go to an institutional worship setting now as we do; most would be considered 'lapsed.' Which i know this is bemoaned by many, but imo it is a virtual Diaspora, and i see many parallels to the veil being rent, top to bottom, in this. If 'institutional church' reps 'the hereafter,' which imo is a fair characterization, then it is encouraging to see the last paragraph of your link quote being walked out by the lapsed.

"All good deeds that are prompted by hope of happiness in the next world cease to be moral." Mahatma Gandhi

imo we are witness to nothing less than the death of legalism here; or at least a big overcoming of it.

 

[twinc]

nice. i said earlier that a Jew could not convict you, but this convicts me to say that that is not entirely true, either. While both--really i guess all three--groups are very legalist, this is most apparent among the devout; but being Anarchist i fairly strictly avoided the devout anyway, and i am also humbled by many of the practices of the 'lapsed' Jews as well, even if many other practices are maddening.

a point i wanted to make here though is that about as many Jews and Muslims go to an institutional worship setting now as we do; most would be considered 'lapsed.' Which i know this is bemoaned by many, but imo it is a virtual Diaspora, and i see many parallels to the veil being rent, top to bottom, in this. If 'institutional church' reps 'the hereafter,' which imo is a fair characterization, then it is encouraging to see the last paragraph of your link quote being walked out by the lapsed.

"All good deeds that are prompted by hope of happiness in the next world cease to be moral." Mahatma Gandhi

imo we are witness to nothing less than the death of legalism here; or at least a big overcoming of it.

Islam like Hinduism by Gandhi says " if I love thee through fear of hell, cast me into hell, if I love thee through desire for heaven, deny me heaven but if I love thee for thine own sake turn not away from me thy everlasting love[Rabina] - twinc

 

[twinc]

@twinc

I've shown in post #16 what I encountered following your suggestion, but I don't get my understanding from Judaism nor am I able to draw any conclusions from it. Perhaps that makes me obtuse, but that is where I am on it. I cannot give what I do not have. Now I have done what you asked and have answered as best I can. Are you going to do the same?

I am surprised to say the least that by googling[the afterlife by Judaism]you have produced what you have - twinc

WHY!!

That is very rude...Amadeus spent time putting up and good post..and you answer like that! Why don't you do the same?
YOU are the one who started this thread...then as usual you opt out of it!!
You are the driver here, we are but the passengers.
You can google it and then tell us all about it!

like the Jews all split, divided, fragmented, confused, don't know but certain they do - twinc