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the "holy place" spoke of by Daniel the prophet

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by truthsearcher, Apr 27, 2007.

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  1. truthsearcher

    truthsearcher New Member

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    The last and most important sign which must occur before the Lord can come back to this earth, is, "the falling away", and "the exaltation of the man of sin; son of perdition"The Apostle Paul in 11Thes.2 says those 2 things would occur in "the temple of God", while Jesus in Matt.24:15 said they would occur in "the holy place" spoken of by Daniel the prophet.Most church leaders take for granted that "the temple of God", and "the holy place" means "a rebuilt temple over in Jerusalem", but they are wrong. Fact is, both Paul and Jesus went out of their way to avoid mentioning Jerusalem as the place they were talking about. The obvious reason of course was that, Jerusalem was not the place of which they were speaking. That place is in fact AMERICA.Jesus tells us to look to DANIEL to find out where that "holy place" is.That holy place which Daniel describes is that of "a little horn" Christian nation which came out of the European kingdom, and "waxed EXCEEDING GREAT to the host of heaven". The nation he describes of course is AMERICA, (which incidently is the same BABYLON of which John describes in Revelation).Read Daniel carefully, and if you have eyes to see and ears to hear, you'll discover that it's the little horn (America) which takes away the daily sacrifice (daily prayer), and puts in power that abomination of desolation, or, the ten horned "beast".In fact, the taking away of those daily school prayers in 1962 is what caused "the falling away" in America.
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (truthsearcher;9795)
    The last and most important sign which must occur before the Lord can come back to this earth, is, "the falling away", and "the exaltation of the man of sin; son of perdition"The Apostle Paul in 11Thes.2 says those 2 things would occur in "the temple of God", while Jesus in Matt.24:15 said they would occur in "the holy place" spoken of by Daniel the prophet.Most church leaders take for granted that "the temple of God", and "the holy place" means "a rebuilt temple over in Jerusalem", but they are wrong. Fact is, both Paul and Jesus went out of their way to avoid mentioning Jerusalem as the place they were talking about. The obvious reason of course was that, Jerusalem was not the place of which they were speaking. That place is in fact AMERICA.Jesus tells us to look to DANIEL to find out where that "holy place" is.That holy place which Daniel describes is that of "a little horn" Christian nation which came out of the European kingdom, and "waxed EXCEEDING GREAT to the host of heaven". The nation he describes of course is AMERICA, (which incidently is the same BABYLON of which John describes in Revelation)..
    Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (II Thessalonians 2:3-4) There is a great falling away from the church at this time, as people still search for the truth instead of tradition. An soon Satan will appear as anti-Christ for a short time when Michael and his angels boots him out of heaven and down to earth. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast with him. (Revelation 12:7-9) Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea! For the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. (Revelation 12:12) When Satan and his band of angels arrive in person, their time is short and their wrath will be great to those without the seal of God. That great old serpent the dragon, called Satan the son of perdition deceiver of the world whose spirit roams from city to city and country to country will have his short time again down on earth. Then his total destruction will follow.
     
  3. kendal

    kendal New Member

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    Satan is already in this earth friend, Satan was cast off completely at Calvary.God bless!
     
  4. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Care to document that for us kendal?
     
  5. Daniyel

    Daniyel New Member

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    The "holy place" of Matt. 24:15 is clearly a reference to the Temple Mount. The associated command that the reader understands derives from Dan. 12:9-10, a text that is Israel/Jerusalem centred. This idea is confirmed by the command to flee Judea in Matt. 24:16 (which is not a reference to events associated with A.D. 66-70).The Temple mentioned in II Thess. 2 is of particular interest. The Greek word there translated Temple is "naos." In classical Greek the word is used for the sanctuary or adytum of a temple. Thus, as regards the inner subteranean cave formations found in the domed building which rises today in the area of the ancient Temple, a statement by W. Robertson Smith on holy sites is of importance; "The adytum, or darker inner chamber, found in many temples both among the Semites and in Greece, was almost certainly in its origin a cave; indeed in Greece it was often wholly or partially subteranean..." (Religion of the Semites, Shocken, p.200).
     
  6. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    The abomination of desolation is when Antichrist stands on the place where the holy of hollies was/is in Jerusalem and declares himself to be God. It is when the Jews/Christians suddenly realize they have mistaken Antichrist the fake for the real one as their Torah and our bible teach the Son would never claim to be the father. This is an abomination to God
     
  7. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"This reverence to Daniel the prophet, Makes the book of Daniel part of the New Testament. This reference is directed to Daniel 9:27. The "abomination" is when Satan stands in Jerusalem, and proclaims that he is God, and the world believes it. The "desolation" is an incorrect translation into the English, which should read "desolator", and Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ. "Desolation" is a condition, in the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator," this is not a condition, but a entity, a person. It is through this individual, Satan that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator [Satan] that shall cause all but the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived. Daniel 9:27; "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and the determined shall be poured upon the desolate."The Holy place is the place that the temple sits, and this is the subject for the very first, when the buildings of the temple were observed by the disciples, and the question of what it would be like at His second advent. This is where the desolation [Satan, the Antichrist] shall sit on mount Zion, making his abominations, or statements that he is the Christ. Another clue to where this site is can be found in verses one and twoMatthew 24:1 "And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and His disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple."Matthew 24:2 "And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."Now must people will tell you that this destruction has already taken place,but that is not so,the total destruction will not happen until Christ feet touch the groundZechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."Now this verse should leave no doubt as to where the Holy place is,and is also the time when not one stone shall be left standingLets go to Revelations and see what else will happen at this timeRevelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."You ever wondered who these seven thousand are?Those are the angels of Satan will die at this time, all of them. They are the men that God will kill. Satan's time for his story telling is over, and all those fallen angels helping him will be destroyed. One more thing while Im here,I know we are not to know the time that Christ returns,but this is the one place in the Bible that tells youThe answer is, within an hour after the two witnesses riseRevelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."This is the seventh and final trumpet, from the time that the two witnesses stand to their feet, we are dealing in seconds, and minutes for it all to occur. The third woe comes with the seventh trumpet. All prophecy in the entire Bible dealing with the seventh, and last trumpet happens instantly at this time.The voices that boom around the world will announce; "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of the kingdom of our Lord, and of His Christ: and He shall reign for ever and ever."
     
  8. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"This reverence to Daniel the prophet, Makes the book of Daniel part of the New Testament. This reference is directed to Daniel 9:27. The "abomination" is when Satan stands in Jerusalem, and proclaims that he is God, and the world believes it. The "desolation" is an incorrect translation into the English, which should read "desolator", and Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ. "Desolation" is a condition, in the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator," this is not a condition, but a entity, a person. It is through this individual, Satan that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator [Satan] that shall cause all but the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived. Daniel 9:27; "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and the determined shall be poured upon the desolate."The Holy place is the place that the temple sits, and this is the subject for the very first, when the buildings of the temple were observed by the disciples, and the question of what it would be like at His second advent. This is where the desolation [Satan, the Antichrist] shall sit on mount Zion, making his abominations, or statements that he is the Christ. Another clue to where this site is can be found in verses one and twoMatthew 24:1 "And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and His disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple."Matthew 24:2 "And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."Now must people will tell you that this destruction has already taken place,but that is not so,the total destruction will not happen until Christ feet touch the ground
     
  9. truthsearcher

    truthsearcher New Member

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    The abomination of desolation is when Antichrist stands on the place where the holy of hollies was/is in Jerusalem and declares himself to be God. It is when the Jews/Christians suddenly realize they have mistaken Antichrist the fake for the real one as their Torah and our bible teach the Son would never claim to be the father. This is an abomination to God
    You'll NEVER EVER understand the end-time prophetic scriptures of the Bible as long as you reference those scriptures to the nation of Israel and the Jews.ALL...ALL...ALL end-time scriptures are a reference to AMERICA, and to the present day white American CHURCHES, of which, God refers to in Revelation 17 as, "the *****", or, the "harlot" if you prefer. The "abomination of desolation" or, that "abomination" (that lewd and disgusting act) which HAS ALREADY MADE white Americans and her churches "desolate" and naked, is none other than, "the co-habitation/interbreeding" between America's white daughters and the blacks". That cross-breeding is the "mystery of iniquity" of which Paul was referring in 11Thes.2:7. God said in Daniel 12:11 that that "abomination that maketh desolate" would be "set up" 1,290 days after the banning of the daily school prayer (the daily sacrifice).When you count 1,290 days forward from 6-17-1963 (the date that the US Supreme Court ruled that School Prayer in America was unconstitutional, and thus banned), to the time in 1966 when the Presbyterian Church announced that they did not condemn or prohibit interracial marriage, you'll find that the number of days amounts to that "1,290 days" determined by God in Daniel 12.Since the sixties, both the white Protestant and Catholic churches of America have gone from "condemning black/white marriages", to that of "blessing them". THAT, folks, is why God refers to them as, "a harlot".John says of the black and white Americans in Rev.17:16-17:"And the ten horns (the blacks) which thou sawest upon the beast (upon Babylon; America), these shall hate the harlot (the white Americans), and shall make her "desolate and naked", and shall eat her flesh and burn her with fire.""For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree and give their kingdom unto the beast until the words of God shall be fulfilled."
     
  10. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Wow truthsearcher, care to explain why you think that America is the *****? Care to explain why you have to falsely accuse Kriss of knowing scriptures more than you? I don't buy that piece of junk doctrine at all. I'll be honest with thee, while I don't know much between Daniel and Revelation (I have not yet read Daniel...) you don't see me accusing my brothers and sisters of knowing truth.But I'll agree with this statement, there are so many false doctrines in America as well as this whole world.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
     
  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I understand the biblical perfectly this idea of yours is of men not God and can not be backed up in scripture it is plain speculation and trying to make men's ideas fit Gods word instead of listening to Gods word which interprets itself without men's speculation or ideas. And to say it has nothing to do with Israel is just plain ludicrous
     
  12. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Let me suggest untill you understand the parable of the figtree you will never understand scripture.you might also read The LORD Comes and Reigns Zech 1414:1 A day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided among you. 14:2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 14:3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. 14:4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 14:5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him. 14:6 6 On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. 14:7 It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttime—a day known to the LORD. When evening comes, there will be light. 14:8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea and half to the western sea, in summer and in winter. 14:9 The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name. 14:10 The whole land, from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem, will become like the Arabah. But Jerusalem will be raised up and remain in its place, from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses. 14:11 It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure
     
  13. truthsearcher

    truthsearcher New Member

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    [
    QUOTE=thesuperjag;14082]Wow truthsearcher, care to explain why you think that America is the *****?
    Not only is America "the harlot; Babylon", it's also the nation described by Jesus in Matt.24: as "the holy place (Christian place)". It's "the little horn" which waxed exceeding great, in Daniel's prophecies. And, it's "the temple of God" in 11Thes.2.
    Care to explain why you have to falsely accuse Kriss of knowing scriptures more than you?
    I'm not "falsely accusing" anyone!....I'm simply telling the truth.Daniel says that only a few will understand the prophecies of the end, and I am most humbled to be among that "few".
    I don't buy that piece of junk doctrine at all.
    And that is quite understandable, for Paul says in 11Thes.2 that America (the temple of God) would not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. "And for this cause", verse 11 says, God shall send (white) America a "strong delusion" that they should believe a lie.
    I'll be honest with thee, while I don't know much between Daniel and Revelation (I have not yet read Daniel...)
    Haven't read Daniel, you say?! Then you're not in any position to judge who's theology is right and who's is wrong.
     
  14. truthsearcher

    truthsearcher New Member

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    I understand the biblical perfectly this idea of yours is of men not God and can not be backed up in scripture it is plain speculation and trying to make men's ideas fit Gods word instead of listening to Gods word which interprets itself without men's speculation or ideas. And to say it has nothing to do with Israel is just plain ludicrous
    Mine is NOT speculation, YOURS is. I can back up with scriptures EVERYTHING I say. In fact "the Antichrist" theory and all the doctrines which go along with it, is nothing BUT speculation, and a lie. And, all the Christian denominations in America are believing that lie.There is NOT an Antichrist figure coming. The man of sin; son of perdition is "the ten horns" which Daniel and John saw in their dreams and visions of the end. That "ten horns" are the people of black African descent, and are "of the Serpent and of Cain".Daniel doesn't say anything about an "Antichrist" figure. He says in 11:31 that "THEY"; the white Americans (the little horn) will "pollute the sanctuary of strength", and shall "take away the daily sacrifice (daily school prayer), and "shall place the abimination that maketh desolate"
     
  15. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Wow truthsearcher, care to explain why you think that America is the *****?
    Not only is America "the harlot; Babylon", it's also the nation described by Jesus in Matt.24: as "the holy place (Christian place)". It's "the little horn" which waxed exceeding great, in Daniel's prophecies. And, it's "the temple of God" in 11Thes.2. Sounds holy, but until you said... (but it is literally disgusting to my soul and others that know that it is a lie) (In fact Lucifer make it sound holy, but he failed at the end...)(truthsearcher)
    "And for this cause", verse 11 says, God shall send (white) America a "strong delusion" that they should believe a lie.
    So that really confirms me, that right there is not the doctrine of God, but of men. Yes it's a devil's doctrine. At least I have enough sense to know what it is. You are absorbed to this ridiculous lie, but hey, your choice...II Corinthians 11:14 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
     
  16. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (truthsearcher;14113)
    Mine is NOT speculation, YOURS is. I can back up with scriptures EVERYTHING I say. In fact "the Antichrist" theory and all the doctrines which go along with it, is nothing BUT speculation, and a lie. And, all the Christian denominations in America are believing that lie.There is NOT an Antichrist figure coming. The man of sin; son of perdition is "the ten horns" which Daniel and John saw in their dreams and visions of the end. That "ten horns" are the people of black African descent, and are "of the Serpent and of Cain".Daniel doesn't say anything about an "Antichrist" figure. He says in 11:31 that "THEY"; the white Americans (the little horn) will "pollute the sanctuary of strength", and shall "take away the daily sacrifice (daily school prayer), and "shall place the abimination that maketh desolate"
    I not even going to argue this stupity you are a blind fool following some made up doctrine that has nothing to do with God when you get some real knowledge I will be more than willing to have a conversation with you untill then take your childish stuff to someone who wants to hear it. If you want to pretent you know what youre talking about dont do it at a Bible study site.
     
  17. tim_from_pa

    tim_from_pa New Member

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    I not even going to argue this stupity you are a blind fool following some made up doctrine that has nothing to do with God when you get some real knowledge I will be more than willing to have a conversation with you untill then take your childish stuff to someone who wants to hear it. If you want to pretent you know what youre talking about dont do it at a Bible study site.
    Kriss:I agree with you. This is an excellent example as to why I like straightforward renditions of scripture or logical deductions based on them. Otherwise, it's merely "song and dance" theology where one has to do all kinds of jigs to make it seemingly make sense.When one takes a book such as Revelation and excludes the Israelites and Jews and make "spiritual interpretations" like an allegory, we get all kinds of nonsense, not to mention that people who cut Israel out of the picture (such as replacement theologians) severely misunderstand the whole purpose of God. And the bible is a book about Israel. The bible was not once a book about them and then switched the subject to somebody else.Too many Gentiles and Canaanites in the land mixing their religion and pushing out the rightful heir so-to-speak. We see that all over today.
     
  18. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    I not even going to argue this stupity you are a blind fool following some made up doctrine that has nothing to do with God when you get some real knowledge I will be more than willing to have a conversation with you untill then take your childish stuff to someone who wants to hear it. If you want to pretent you know what youre talking about dont do it at a Bible study site.
    (Tim_from_pa)
    Kriss:I agree with you. This is an excellent example as to why I like straightforward renditions of scripture or logical deductions based on them. Otherwise, it's merely "song and dance" theology where one has to do all kinds of jigs to make it seemingly make sense.When one takes a book such as Revelation and excludes the Israelites and Jews and make "spiritual interpretations" like an allegory, we get all kinds of nonsense, not to mention that people who cut Israel out of the picture (such as replacement theologians) severely misunderstand the whole purpose of God. And the bible is a book about Israel. The bible was not once a book about them and then switched the subject to somebody else.Too many Gentiles and Canaanites in the land mixing their religion and pushing out the rightful heir so-to-speak. We see that all over today.
    Don't we all love it when Christians that wants Him have the same mind like. It's so awesome. Of course I agree with both of you guys. I just hate Men's tradition with a passion.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshus) our Lord and Saviour.
     
  19. truthsearcher

    truthsearcher New Member

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    (kriss;14119)
    I not even going to argue this stupity you are a blind fool following some made up doctrine that has nothing to do with God when you get some real knowledge I will be more than willing to have a conversation with you untill then take your childish stuff to someone who wants to hear it. If you want to pretent you know what youre talking about dont do it at a Bible study site.
    Well, if I'm the fool, then please enlighten me! Show me with scriptures where I'm wrong. Let's debate these things "line upon line"!, "precept upon precept"!Let's begin with the "man of sin; son of perdition", and discuss whether he's one man, or, a race of man. 1st QUESTION: Is he, or is he not represented by "the ten horns" in Daniel and in Revelation?
     
  20. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    How can a serious bible student discuss what isn't there? don't be ridiculous. You give us a man made concept and then want us to prove it. If you got a scripture you want to discuss post it. If you want to understand Satan, the son of perdition, death, sin,the lawless one, Lucifer, the devil or one of his other many names I suggest you get a Strong's concordance a KJV throw out all your preconceived ideas of men and start in Genesis.
     
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