The idea that God proceeds everything and the material world does not matter?

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Kaneda

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I have been having this issue with religion that is similar to what I have had with spirituality in that generally it’s belief can seem to condone or support views that are a little too removed or attached for me. Like for example, I truly believe that it is quite observable but progressively society is becoming more and more artificial, nothing is very natural anymore. I am starting to think that generally it is considered that the only way to understand or perceive God is to practice complete detachment from just about everything our own thoughts and feelings and even our experiences of the immediate environment around us. Do you think this is accurate and even possible? This is practically what Buddhist and Taoists practice and achieve that compete unattachment is the most achievable state. I have meditated and achieved they say is enlightenment but I was left thinking that it is not somehow true in someway or that it is not really an accurate understanding of the experiences.

I always felt that Christianity accepts and supports the notion in individual experiences and differences and does not disavow them entirely if they are in alignment with God, but largely what I get to see from most practices of religion including Christianity is complete detachment. But then I wonder if this is really completely realistic and achievable, as human beings we have certain needs that need to be met and achieved. I think it is comparable to leave someone in a shit padded cell and just expect their belief in god to be sufficient enough, while providing no social interaction or stimulation. In a sense, that is what civilization and society is, detachment and disconnection, I do not understand how religion is supposed to facilitate that. Though obviously I understand, you’re supposed to look for God for fulfillment, I don’t wholly see that happening. Only that you’re supposed to look to God for contentment or connection, only by yourself and you’re supposed to be completely happy with that contentment. Despite whatever your experiences, as long as you believe in god enough it is enough to endure and tolerate all and any experiences and you’re “state of transcendence and illumination or enlightenment” is enough for everything.

Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of being alive? How enlightened does a person have to be to not experience suffering? If a person is generally happy or content but there is one aspect of society or their life that makes them unhappy is it because they are not enlightened enough?
 
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Kaneda

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“both Christianity and Judaism have emphatically rejected the Manichaean doctrine that either the created world as a whole or the material part of it is inherently evil. Christianity holds rather that evil is the result of the misuse of their free will by created beings and that the body, with its passions and impulses, is to be neither ignored nor despised but sanctified; in the Bible, the “flesh” that is spoken of disparagingly is not the human body but human nature in rebellion against God.”

That is generally what I thought.
 
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lforrest

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I have been having this issue with religion that is similar to what I have had with spirituality in that generally it’s belief can seem to condone or support views that are a little too removed or attached for me. Like for example, I truly believe that it is quite observable but progressively society is becoming more and more artificial, nothing is very natural anymore. I am starting to think that generally it is considered that the only way to understand or perceive God is to practice complete detachment from just about everything our own thoughts and feelings and even our experiences of the immediate environment around us. Do you think this is accurate and even possible? This is practically what Buddhist and Taoists practice and achieve that compete unattachment is the most achievable state. I have meditated and achieved they say is enlightenment but I was left thinking that it is not somehow true in someway or that it is not really an accurate understanding of the experiences.

I always felt that Christianity accepts and supports the notion in individual experiences and differences and does not disavow them entirely if they are in alignment with God, but largely what I get to see from most practices of religion including Christianity is complete detachment. But then I wonder if this is really completely realistic and achievable, as human beings we have certain needs that need to be met and achieved. I think it is comparable to leave someone in a shit padded cell and just expect their belief in god to be sufficient enough, while providing no social interaction or stimulation. In a sense, that is what civilization and society is, detachment and disconnection, I do not understand how religion is supposed to facilitate that. Though obviously I understand, you’re supposed to look for God for fulfillment, I don’t wholly see that happening. Only that you’re supposed to look to God for contentment or connection, only by yourself and you’re supposed to be completely happy with that contentment. Despite whatever your experiences, as long as you believe in god enough it is enough to endure and tolerate all and any experiences and you’re “state of transcendence and illumination or enlightenment” is enough for everything.

Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of being alive? How enlightened does a person have to be to not experience suffering? If a person is generally happy or content but there is one aspect of society or their life that makes them unhappy is it because they are not enlightened enough?

Looking at Jesus as the example, he ate with sinners. He also said true religion is to care for orphans and widows. He also would go off alone to pray.

So I believe everyone would benefit from alone time with God, and times seeking him free of distractions of the flesh.

But nether is true and complete fellowship with God done in isolation.

I need an analogy, even if it is a bad one. It is like a man with an old car. He decides to put in the garrage to make it beautiful again. But he finds that it will cost too much to finish it. For shame at its incomplete state he doesn't drive the car any more. His wealthy neighbor began work on his car at the same time. With the help of a donor car, and an auto body shop he was able to make his car beautiful again and take it to shows that year.
 

Prayer Warrior

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I have been having this issue with religion that is similar to what I have had with spirituality in that generally it’s belief can seem to condone or support views that are a little too removed or attached for me. Like for example, I truly believe that it is quite observable but progressively society is becoming more and more artificial, nothing is very natural anymore. I am starting to think that generally it is considered that the only way to understand or perceive God is to practice complete detachment from just about everything our own thoughts and feelings and even our experiences of the immediate environment around us. Do you think this is accurate and even possible? This is practically what Buddhist and Taoists practice and achieve that compete unattachment is the most achievable state. I have meditated and achieved they say is enlightenment but I was left thinking that it is not somehow true in someway or that it is not really an accurate understanding of the experiences.

I always felt that Christianity accepts and supports the notion in individual experiences and differences and does not disavow them entirely if they are in alignment with God, but largely what I get to see from most practices of religion including Christianity is complete detachment. But then I wonder if this is really completely realistic and achievable, as human beings we have certain needs that need to be met and achieved. I think it is comparable to leave someone in a shit padded cell and just expect their belief in god to be sufficient enough, while providing no social interaction or stimulation. In a sense, that is what civilization and society is, detachment and disconnection, I do not understand how religion is supposed to facilitate that. Though obviously I understand, you’re supposed to look for God for fulfillment, I don’t wholly see that happening. Only that you’re supposed to look to God for contentment or connection, only by yourself and you’re supposed to be completely happy with that contentment. Despite whatever your experiences, as long as you believe in god enough it is enough to endure and tolerate all and any experiences and you’re “state of transcendence and illumination or enlightenment” is enough for everything.

Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of being alive? How enlightened does a person have to be to not experience suffering? If a person is generally happy or content but there is one aspect of society or their life that makes them unhappy is it because they are not enlightened enough?

Hi, Kaneda, welcome to the forum! I'd like to address a few of things you said in this post.

God made all matter (things that have physical properties), and all that He made was good, but His creation was corrupted by sin. This doesn't mean that all matter is inherently evil, as the gnostics believed. If this were true, then Jesus would have been evil when He was born into a physical body. But there was nothing evil about Him because He was not born with a sin nature since God was His Father.

In John 15:19, Jesus said, "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you." As Jesus' followers, we live in this world, but the world does not live in us, meaning that it doesn't dictate what we believe and how we live (or it shouldn't). But when we are born again of the Holy Spirit, our minds are transformed by His Word, the truth. At this moment, God transfers us from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of His Son, Jesus. So, we don't detach ourselves, but God transfers us by His Spirit, and we become united to Him.

Hope this helps. Like I said, I'm only addressing a couple of the things you said. I encourage you to read the Gospel of John.
 
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marks

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I always felt that Christianity accepts and supports the notion in individual experiences and differences and does not disavow them entirely if they are in alignment with God, but largely what I get to see from most practices of religion including Christianity is complete detachment. But then I wonder if this is really completely realistic and achievable, as human beings we have certain needs that need to be met and achieved.
Hi Kaneda,

There is so much thought out there about "what we get from God", forgiveness, hope for the future, deliverance from some addiction, whatever it may be.

If we recognize our first and most important need to be that we may personally know the One Who created us, our entire lives come into this moment by moment living with God. Committing ourselves to Him, as to a Faithful Creator.

The idea is, I think, not that we never suffer, we do. But that we find the true gift which even the sufferings of life give to us when we are right with God.

Much love!
 

marks

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“both Christianity and Judaism have emphatically rejected the Manichaean doctrine that either the created world as a whole or the material part of it is inherently evil. Christianity holds rather that evil is the result of the misuse of their free will by created beings and that the body, with its passions and impulses, is to be neither ignored nor despised but sanctified; in the Bible, the “flesh” that is spoken of disparagingly is not the human body but human nature in rebellion against God.”

That is generally what I thought.
My idea has been somewhat between these two, that God made us material creatures, but that our being has become corrupted. And God will restore an incorruptible state to those who trust Him.

Much love!
 

bbyrd009

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I have been having this issue with religion that is similar to what I have had with spirituality in that generally it’s belief can seem to condone or support views that are a little too removed or attached for me. Like for example, I truly believe that it is quite observable but progressively society is becoming more and more artificial, nothing is very natural anymore. I am starting to think that generally it is considered that the only way to understand or perceive God is to practice complete detachment from just about everything our own thoughts and feelings and even our experiences of the immediate environment around us. Do you think this is accurate and even possible? This is practically what Buddhist and Taoists practice and achieve that compete unattachment is the most achievable state. I have meditated and achieved they say is enlightenment but I was left thinking that it is not somehow true in someway or that it is not really an accurate understanding of the experiences.

I always felt that Christianity accepts and supports the notion in individual experiences and differences and does not disavow them entirely if they are in alignment with God, but largely what I get to see from most practices of religion including Christianity is complete detachment. But then I wonder if this is really completely realistic and achievable, as human beings we have certain needs that need to be met and achieved. I think it is comparable to leave someone in a shit padded cell and just expect their belief in god to be sufficient enough, while providing no social interaction or stimulation. In a sense, that is what civilization and society is, detachment and disconnection, I do not understand how religion is supposed to facilitate that. Though obviously I understand, you’re supposed to look for God for fulfillment, I don’t wholly see that happening. Only that you’re supposed to look to God for contentment or connection, only by yourself and you’re supposed to be completely happy with that contentment. Despite whatever your experiences, as long as you believe in god enough it is enough to endure and tolerate all and any experiences and you’re “state of transcendence and illumination or enlightenment” is enough for everything.

Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of being alive? How enlightened does a person have to be to not experience suffering? If a person is generally happy or content but there is one aspect of society or their life that makes them unhappy is it because they are not enlightened enough?

Chapter 1
The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named is not the eternal name
The nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth
The named is the mother of myriad things
Thus, constantly without desire, one observes its essence
Constantly with desire, one observes its manifestations
These two emerge together but differ in name
The unity is said to be the mystery
Mystery of mysteries, the door to all wonders
(translated by Derek Lin)

gotta admit these are pretty much all findable in the Bible

im not sure by "complete unattachment" they mean "detachment" though, can one be unattached and still engaged iow? I guess the focus of their engagement might change?

welcome btw, im mark :)
but largely what I get to see from most practices of religion including Christianity is complete detachment.
not sure how you got there, Christians strike me as the most political animals on the planet lol, bar none. Our forums are full of it?

Pincher Creek, Canada?
 
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