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The Iniquity of the Nicene Creed

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by JesusIsFaithful, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. JesusIsFaithful

    JesusIsFaithful Well-Known Member

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    FYI There are 2 Nicene creeds;

    the original one done in 325 A.D.

    And the amended one in 381 A.D. which gave the Holy Spirit the glory of being Lord and the Giver of life as well as introduce the practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son. The Nicene creed of 381 A.D. is the one containing those iniquities.

    Some forums cite holding to the creed of 325 A.D. but the one they are showing in their statement of faith is the amended one of 381 A.D.

    To support those 2 iniquities, 2 Corinthians 3:6 has been cited for assigning the Holy Spirit as the Giver of life in spite of the fact that not all Bible versions capitalize "spirit" in giving that title to the Spirit. What all Bible versions does give the glory of the Giver of life to, is Jesus Christ in John 6:30-35 & 1 John 5:11-13. So which scripture is correct? John 5:39-40 cites that scripture testify of the Son for believers to go to the Son for life. ALL BIBLES says that.

    What is daunting is that there is no scripture nor any teaching to any church in the N.T. that teaches to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son. The scripture that forum sites' would use is Matthew 3:16-17, but that only testifies to the Three Persons within the One God. When God the Father & the Holy Ghost had borne witness of the Son that He is God, this was required in His words in John 8:17 in order for the Father's witness from Heaven of the Son to be true for why the Holy Spirit had to also bear witness from Heaven at the same time. In now way does Matthew 3:16-17 was teaching the practice of worshiping the Holy Ghost with the Father & the Son, even though there are plenty of scripture testifying to His deity of the One Triune God.

    One christian forum did try to address why one should worship the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son, but proving His deity does not really prove the practice of doing this. Some would call this nitpicking as asinine, but the question was raised; "Is there any scripture that prohibits the worship of the Holy Ghost with the Father & the Son? Yes, there is.

    It starts off citing that this is a judgment that all believers are under to obey.

    John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

    Now comes the judgment that all believers are to obey in following.

    John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

    If the latter part of that verse had not been written, there would be a leeway for including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, but because of that latter part of that verse which is part of that JUDGMENT, there is no wiggle room for including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son.

    The moment you stop honoring the Son, you are no longer honoring the Father. That means as applied; the moment any believer honors the Holy Spirit, they are not honoring the Father, and that judgment is hanging over that believer's head for not doing the will of the Father.

    Now most forums will overlook that judgment as if Jesus did not really mean that, but being a judgment, should any believer be willing to take that chance? I should say not. Especially when Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30 warns of this consequence of that iniquity for broadening the way in the worship place in how believers were coming to God the Father by.

    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber....7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

    So the Nicene creed broadened the way in the worship place and being ecumenical in nature as gathering grapes of thorns and figs of thistles, it certainly qualifies as a false prophet.

    Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

    So the solution for the believer and the churches that wish to be found abiding in Him is to depart from that iniquity by narrowing the way in worship back to the Son in glorifying Him and by Him, God the Father. That is what the indwelling Holy Spirit is leading us to do; John 16:14

    Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

    Since the consequence is being left behind as excommunicated from the Marriage Supper in Heaven for being in iniquity still at the pre great tribulation rapture when the Bridegroom comes, I would say that the necessity to ask Jesus Christ for help to narrow the way in how we relate to God the Father in anything by relating to the Bridegroom is very important.

    Feel free to read His warning of that consequence in Luke 13:24-30 & Matthew 7:13-27.

    We are not called to defend an ecumenical creed which is an agreement with the Catholic Church as they are using it too.

    2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

    We are called to defend the faith in Jesus Christ.

    2 Timothy 4:1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.9 Do thy diligence to come shortly unto me:
     
  2. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Even though the Holy Spirit is God, it is true that throughout the NT it is the Father and the Son who are to be worshiped. So it is the Holy Spirit Himself who directs worship to the Father and the Son.

    And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him [God the Father] that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb [God the Son] for ever and ever. (Rev 5:13).
     
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  3. JesusIsFaithful

    JesusIsFaithful Well-Known Member

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    And as the Holy Spirit does, so will those led by the Holy Spirit will do.

    All invitations still points to the Son in coming to God the Father in worship because there are other spirits in the world that sinners need to repent from in relating to in order to be heeding the commandment of His invitation in coming to God the Father by, & that is by the only way of the Son in worship.
     
  4. JesusIsFaithful

    JesusIsFaithful Well-Known Member

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    For any that contend because you may argue that because the Holy Spirit is God, He deserves to be worshiped with the Father & the Son, let me ask you this:

    Whenever something crazy happens like the "holy laughter" movement or "slain in the spirit", do they not focus on the Holy Spirit in worship? So why would God allow that to happen when honoring the Holy Spirit in addressing the Holy Spirit in worship? If you know that those supernatural movements of confusion is not of the Lord as God is not the author of ( 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 ) then why would God allow that to happen when those that go astray had their focus on the Holy Spirit in worship?

    We are not to believe every spirit but test them ( 1 John 4:1 ) and the only way we can know the real Holy Spirit from the way the world receives their spirits by outward signs is by knowing He dwells in us ( John 14:16-17 ) as opposed to teh spirit of teh antichrist that dwells outside of us in the world; 1 John 4:3-4

    So why would God allow that to happen? Because of this judgment in verse 22 that is over each believer to follow in verse 23 of John 5:22-23.

    John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

    So by honoring the Holy Spirit in worship, the believers are no longer honoring the Father in worship.

    The indwelling Holy Spirit would always keep the spotlight on the Son in worship for it is by honoring the Son is the only way we can honor the Father as led by the Spirit of God in us to do, especially in worship in seeking the glory of the on and by Him, the glory of the Father.
     
  5. epostle1

    epostle1 Well-Known Member

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    You can't divide the Trinity as if it were a pie chart. Each of the Divine Personalities of the Trinity carry the same divine essence. If it were not for the Council of Nicae, we would all be Arians. The doctrine of the Trinity came to a deeper development at the Council of Constantinople, the same year and the same Council that amended the N. Creed, 381 A.D.

    If the Early Church Fathers had no authority with the N.Creed amendments, then they had no authority to clarify the Trinity, which was always being challenged by heretics.

    The Councils of Nicae, Ephesus, Constantinople and Chalcedon, under the superintendence of the Holy Spirit, developed authoritive verdicts on the Trinity that is accepted by Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox.

    The problem is not the Nicene Creed; there is nothing wrong with it. The problem is an anti-authority, anti-institutional mentality common with non-denoms.


    picard.jpg
    We had a council about this 2300 years ago!​

     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
  6. JesusIsFaithful

    JesusIsFaithful Well-Known Member

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    Then explain why when believers address the Holy Spirit in worship in honoring the Holy Spirit in worship, sometimes crazy things happen? Why would God allow the devil to respond when they were addressing the Holy Spirit in worship and prayer?

    If you can't answer that, then look at John 5:22-23 & John 14:6 & John 14:13-14 to see that Jesus meant exactly what He has said.


    Deception has come in by introducing a practice in worship by assumption rather than scripture for the purpose of ecumenism which is a fruit of a false prophet in gathering grapes of thorns and figs of thistles by.
     
  7. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    I find this to be overly simplistic: there are many views of the nature of God besides just Nicene/Anthanasian and Arian.
     
  8. JesusIsFaithful

    JesusIsFaithful Well-Known Member

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    Only the view supported by the scripture without opposing any other scripture can be the true view of the nature of God.

    As it is, there is no scripture that teaches to Gentiles believers nor Jewish believers in Christ to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the son but there are scripture limiting how we are to honor God the Father by and that is by the only way of honoring the Son, because the moment they stop honoring the Son, they are no longer honoring the Father.

    John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    I believe that because of spirits in the world, God would call sinners away from their spirits to a personal reconciled relationship with God thru the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the only way to keep out the sinner's practice of focusing on the spirits as well as keeping out the spirits of the antichrist from taking the spotlight away from the Son in worship, which the Holy Spirit in the believers would never do that but glorify the Son thru us in worship.
     
  9. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    And there are many different opinions on which view that is, not just two (Arian & Nicene/Anthanasian).
     
  10. JesusIsFaithful

    JesusIsFaithful Well-Known Member

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    I don't bother addressing those views by those terms. When any one promote a view not in alignment with all of scripture, then by His help, I address that view by the scripture that opposes however they are taking a verse out of context to support that errant view. Scripture cannot go against scripture and so to expose the works of darkness whether it is a view, a teaching, a supernatural phenomenon, a dream, or hearing a voice wondering if it is from God, we go to the scripture to prove or reprove those things with His help as our Good Shepherd at that throne of grace, of course.

    Below are the scriptures that supports what I have shared above.

    1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

    Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

    2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

    Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

    1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
     
  11. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    And again, people study those same scriptures and come to a variety of conclusions.
     
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  12. JesusIsFaithful

    JesusIsFaithful Well-Known Member

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    That depends if they are relying on Him as their Good Shepherd to teach them thru the holy Spirit in them or if they depend on their church and their church leaders to teach them instead when we are to prove everything by Him no matter what.

    That is why you have to study those scripture with Him at that throne of grace as only God can cause the increase & recover any from the snare of the devil.

    James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

    1 Corinthians 3:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

    1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

    2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

    1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.....26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
     
  13. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    And if two different people earnestly study the Bible and come to two different conclusions....
     
  14. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    You may have two more denominations rising. And someone is bound to ask you if you are one of those: Who decides which of the two of you is right? And your answer is:

    "O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

    Oh but I have the Holy Ghost working in me! Hmmm?

    "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." I Cor 14:33

    So then someone does not really have the Holy Ghost or someone is ignoring the Holy Ghost or some combination thereof...

    So how does this help us? Do we need to know an answer in advance or do we only need an answer when we are in a real situation. In the situation will not God have the necessary answer?

    So then how are our ears?

    "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matt 11:15
     
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  15. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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  16. Ac28

    Ac28 Active Member

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    At least one of the two HAVE to be wrong. Both being right is an impossibility. If neither rightly divide God's Word, the odds are about 100 to 1 that both are wrong.

    All Creeds are man-made and, therefore, by definition, worthless. The Nicene Creed loses it's credibility near the end:
    "And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins;

    The idea that water baptism is for the remission of sins is another one of those Israel things that apostate Christendom has erroneously dragged into Gentile doctrine. Just because the Gentiles during Acts were baptized has nothing to do with us today. The Gentiles in Acts were part of Israel, since they were grafted into Israel. The only blessings the Gentiles had in Acts were a few of Israel's blessings they were allowed to have. They had no blessings of their own
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
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